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Max range and decreasing..

Max range and decreasing..

I have a couple of questions, sorry if the have been answered before.
I took delivery of my Tesla 3 SR on Dec 15, 2019

1. How can I determine what is max range of my car? Is it 240 or 250? When I went to pick up the car, I used the mobile app and moved the slider all the way to the right as if I was going to charge to the max, it said the max I could get was 246 miles

2. My next questions is more alarming. Now, after just 2500 miles, the same exercise as above shows only 242 miles and apparently continue to decrease. I charge my car to 80% since day 1

Thanks

Magic 8 Ball | January 20, 2020

The range number is an estimate. There are many threads about range. You may also do some searching concerning degradation.

Plug this into google and change search terms for different subjects to focus search this forum:

site:forums.tesla.com range

derotam | January 20, 2020

Here we go.....watch out for stinky aquatic creatures...

What did the site say when you bought the car. If you weren't paying attention at that time, why are you all of a sudden looking at this?

That number that you see is going to go up and down but it doesn't really mean anything. If you lose say 10% from either 250 or 240 in a short period of time then you might have an issue.

If you aren't doing long road trips which I am guessing is correct since you bought an SR, then most likely you dont need to worry about this odd value.

That number you are looking at is not adjusted for driving conditions. It is based on what the battery management system is seeing for voltage in the pack. This can get out of wack sometimes but does not actually reduce capacity of your battery. It's like if the miles till empty is wrong in an ICE car, you did not lose any gas from your tank.

stingray.don | January 20, 2020

The battery meter range is just an estimate that will be influenced by external factors such as temperature. It is not an indicator of battery health.

https://www.tesla.com/support/range

Bighorn | January 20, 2020

Normal behavior.

LostInTx | January 20, 2020

The battery range is truly an estimate.

Last week, I went a night without charging my car. At 11:00 that night, the range was 246 files. The next morning, without charging, the reported range was 251 miles. It truly is a wild ass guess.

You'll get a dozen experts on here *cough* who'll give you their rendition on why the numbers float up and down. My advice: don't listen to a single one of them - they simply don't know.

Enjoy the car - it honestly took me a few months to get comfortable with the reality that the car is doing stuff nobody beyond a few Tesla engineers and programmers understand. Accept that and trust Musk (and his team).

InterKOT | January 20, 2020

Thanks everybody! The mentioned link is indeed helpful:

https://www.tesla.com/support/range

Should have read there first, instead of bothering the community..sorry..

Pg3ibew | January 20, 2020

When it gets to be summer and warmer, will everyone be complaining about TOO MUCH range?
Jesus H Christ. This is thread 8462 about range loss.

LostInTx | January 20, 2020

@Pg3ibew your post is very welcoming to those coming on board for the first time. Thanks for your tolerance of others but it makes me wonder: what in your life didn't get done because you typed this missive?

Pg3ibew | January 20, 2020

@lost, what are you talking about?
I am a member here since mid October. I have seen 6,7,8,15 post PER day about range loss and battery degradation.
Forget about a search. All one has to do is SCROLL down and one can find the other 6,7,8,15 posts about battery degradation and range loss, that were made that MORNING.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | January 20, 2020

Lol I am still waiting for my Fav Murky water troll to give us his opinion on the subject ;)

InterKOT | January 20, 2020

I agree, that showing energy in percentage on the main screen is more informative and accurate. Still, IMHO they can display both the energy percentage and the projected range - they have plenty of real estate on the main screen

derotam | January 21, 2020

@InterKOT: More accurate, until it is not due to real degradation, and then it will be less and less accurate as to the driver knowing how much energy they have left to use.

I do agree however with displaying both values on the main screen...or changing the value on the main screen to an actual "estimated" range that averages more than 30 miles...maybe 100.

jallred | January 21, 2020

ICE consumption per mile is very stationary data. Even when braking or stopped there is a decent amount of consumption just to keep engine run ning. Idling and coasting fuel consumption is like a big dc offset. EV has no dc offset while idling and can go negative with regeneration. Calculating mean values from data with high standard deviation is harder.

What’s easier? Predict the temperature in San Diego or in Washington DC?

EV range prediction is super sensitive to how one drives and the current environment.

Don’t like your current projected range, just wait a couple of hours.

FISHEV | January 21, 2020

"Last week, I went a night without charging my car. At 11:00 that night, the range was 246 files. The next morning, without charging, the reported range was 251 miles. It truly is a wild ass guess."

Just battery temp changing the state of charge. The guess is not the battery capacity so much as how current driving conditions will affect the range. EV's are much more affected by temp than ICE vehicles, losing 25% of range under 40F up to 50% as it gets colder. EPA tests don't account for it as not that much of an issue for ICE cars previously.

If you use Projected Range from the Energy/Consumption screen graph you will have a fairly accurate idea of range under current conditions.

Range is fairly easy to predict with the Tesla but Tesla is not forthcoming on the topic with buyers so it becomes the number one question and complaint by new owners.

jallred | January 21, 2020

If you use Projected Range from the Energy/Consumption screen graph you will have a fairly accurate idea of range under current conditions.-Jack

It is so accurate they give you 6 different projected range numbers to choose from.

jallred | January 21, 2020

There is no easy way to measure how much energy is stored in your battery. Most techniques count energy in minus energy out. Integrating energy over time can result in large cumulative errors.

Compounding the problem is the fact that energy consumption has high variability during even consistent driving conditions. Even more variable as conditions change. Trying to project past rates on future driving is prone to large errors.

Combination of not accurately knowing your current energy capacity and being unable to project your future energy needs makes range projection very unstable.

LostInTx | January 21, 2020

@LYTMCQ - you're welcomed to spin it how you want. My garage was 61 degrees at 11:00 at night and was 61 degrees the next morning. During that time, the charge indicator changed from 246 to 251. This has nothing to do with your soliloquy on the relative impact of a battery based on temperature, driving patterns (unless my car had a quick midnight hookup with the S down the street) or anything else.

The anticipated range.. went.. up..

And ".becomes the number one question and complaint by new owners" is the quintessential "assuming facts not in evidence" statement.

And I'm not complaining, btw.. I'm offering to the OP an opinion (see the difference?) that fixating on specific range values as reported by the 3 is an exercise in futility. The https://www.tesla.com/support/range page is pretty comprehensive and shows that Tesla is being quite forthcoming with advice and information on the subject.

dahult | January 21, 2020

As a new owner of a Model 3 I am finding the battery range/percent reporting to be a problem. I have now realized that both the battery percentage and the range are inaccurate with the range being the most inaccurate. If you set the battery indicator to display range, it uses the 'Rated' wh/mi to calculate the range. The Tesla document says to use the Energy app for the most accurate information. It has been the most helpful because that display has a solid horizontal line for the 'Rated' wh/mi and a dotted line with your actual/averaged wh/mi. It is winter and I do live in a cold place (Chicago) but I have never seen my actual wh/mi get anywhere near the 'Rated' wh/mi. The 'Rated' wh/mi is somewhere in the area of 240-250 wh/mi but my actual reading on the Energy app has never gone below 330 wh/mi. (I am not that heavy footed for those who want to bash my driving as the problem.)

Of even more concern is that I have a Model Standard Plus, which is supposed to have a 62 kwh battery. Following recommendations I have set the charging limit to 80% and for my peace of mind charge it when it drops to 20%. That should give me 60% of the battery capacity, which on 62 kwh should be 37 kwh. When I do this, the 'card' section on the display that shows kwh used 'Since Last Charge', says that I have only used/gotten 30 kwh. That's a 20% difference between what I think I should be getting and what I am getting. Either the battery meter, even using the percent, or the kwh since last charge on the status card or very inaccurate. I can't tell which.

Bighorn | January 21, 2020

@dahult
This is all stuff that was figured out years ago. Either google or ask questions. Saying what everybody already knows helps nobody or it’s a very circuitous way of being educated.

FISHEV | January 21, 2020

"The anticipated range.. went.. up.."

No...the State of Charge changed and it affected the Rated Range number.

Neither that useful to knowing predicted range with current charge. For that you need Energy/Conumption and the Projected Range you will see there next to Rated Range.

jallred | January 21, 2020

Neither that useful to knowing predicted range with current charge. For that you need Energy/Conumption and the Projected Range you will see there next to Rated Range. -jack

There is no "Rated Range" there. Only the word "Rated" and it refers to energy per mile.

dahult | January 21, 2020

My posting may have been too long but it was a lead-in to a real question I have not been able to find an answer to. Which is accurate (or at least most accurate), the battery gauge using percent or the card report kwh used on the 'Since last charge'? On my car, one or the other is wrong.

derotam | January 21, 2020

@dahult: Any energy used(heater, Air Conditioning, seat heaters...etc) while the car is in Park is not accounted for in the cards, or the energy screen. So any time in park where you are using the heater, all that energy will not be accounted for in the Cards, or Energy App.

jallred | January 21, 2020

@dahult,

You can use all of the energy in your battery and go 0 miles.
As derotam said, the Cards and the Energy App only show energy used while moving, or potentially, in the briefest of moments before you start moving and after you stop moving.

FISHEV | January 21, 2020

" Either the battery meter, even using the percent, or the kwh since last charge on the status card or very inaccurate."

Use the Projected Range from the Energy/Graph screen for you best range estimate.

The battery meter is not "inaccurate" its the detachment of battery charge to range, a 10-50% difference. 50%/150 miles variation one sees on Battery Per Cent/Rated Range makes it inaccurate for predicting range.

Bighorn | January 21, 2020

They are both accurate for their own purposes. You’ll only extract an accurate kWh figure on a single, uninterrupted trip. Trying to figure out if your battery is “right” is not as intuitive as you’d like it to be. These are tools to be used to get the most out of the car, not to prove the capacity of the battery, unless you have rigorous methodology.

Is there an actual use case you are concerned about?

Bighorn | January 21, 2020

And don’t, for God’s sake, waste any time with FISH’s misinformation.