Elon Musk @elonmusk
Hell yeah 80.6%
37,751 votes · 23 hours left
9:23 PM · Feb 4, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Truck, batteries or all of the above?
Maybe this is what Trump was talking about:
"He’s going to be building a very big plant in the United States. He has to, because we help him, so he has to help us."
Steve and I have been talking about a Texas Giga for many months! Ideal for mass producing trucks and batteries and...
Tesla will get red states behind their green energy revolution. Texas is already the renewable wind power leader.
I have mixed feelings.
I know they need to locate in areas that have the workforce to populate the plants- the main reason they aren't building out Giga1 faster is because there aren't enough people out in the Nevada desert.
But Texas is also one of the most anti-Tesla states in the nation. Can you even buy a Tesla in Texas in 2020? I know changing the anti-Tesla laws will be a part of any agreement, but it seems like Texas would be getting rewarded with prestige and tons of good jobs, just for being obstinate. Building a gigafactory is a pretty big bribe to grease the wheels for in-state sales. Why not a metropolitan area in a state that has always welcomed Tesla and sustainable vehicles?
Because changing hearts and minds means spending $ in those locations. Moving a factory to China helps.
Building a factory in Texas for batteries and Cybertrucks gives Texans a reason to root for Tesla.
@Wormtown Kris Tesla can sell in Texas without major problems (and service vehicles), customers just are not allowed to order a car at a store but have to order online. Not a big deal at all, unlike Michigan.
I think Houston might be a great candidate. Elon claimed that growth is hampered lacking engineering talent, Houston will have a lot of O&G engineers out of work within the next decade.
What better way to capture exactly those folks to underline the need for a transition to RE, i'm sure many would rather work on tech which represents the future. People work jobs which are available, many don't have the money to move to "woke areas".
The notion that Texans are complete backwards oil loving communities underlines a "we against them" mentality which is toxic. Cities like Houston, Austin and San Antonino are rather left leaning.
Houston is also one of the largest logistics hubs in the U.S., one of the top inbound ports for raw materials, has Ro/Ro vessel service (Galveston) and is an already established automotive supply chain hub (Mexico to Europe), helping Giga Berlin.
Texas is a good pick, Houston would be a better one, Tesla would have no problem to recruit top talent.
@El Mirio: Fair points. And often times "the will of the People" and the choices of the state government aren't aligned. (I certainly disagree with a LOT of the things my representatives do). And as I pointed out- they've run out of people in Nevada. Not floor space. Houston definitely fits the demos.
I just feel its kind of like deciding to marry a cheater if they "promise to stop cheating". Surely there are other places with the engineering talent that could support a GF whose states have been in Tesla's corner all along? (I know the Northeast is too built out, but Atlanta? The Triangle in NC?) TX just feels a little dirty after they restricted Tesla for so many years....
….It would read kind of like a "we've made it through the enemy lines" type of PR spin- making EVs in "oil country" even though that's a great exaggeration....
No Giga Texas Why build and employ in a state where people and legislature are against EVs and Tesla?
3tesalfun, because for that exact reason. There is no point in trying to expose the benefits of EVs to people that already have EVs........
@El Mirio, Telsa and the state of Michigan agreed to a settlement a couple of weeks ago. Tesla can now sell and service cars here.
The only hitch now is that the car has to be titled in another state or Canada. Pretty stupid legal restriction to leave in there but it's not a really big hoop to jump through if you want a Tesla. I'm pretty sure you can transfer the title later.
Hmm. TX has EV incentives but only if sold through a dealership, hence discriminating against Tesla.
Should Tesla accept this, just sit back and enjoy it? (Hat tip to Bill Clements.)
Repurposing O&G talent in a major O&G town seems like the perfect way to illustrate how a transition can happen.
For us uninitiated:
Orangutangs and Gorillas came to mind.
This is a Tesla owned product, this forum.
EM said not to use abbreviations/anagrams he hasnt personally approved. :))
I'd rather see one built in coal country. Talk about changing hearts and minds! And a severely depressed local economy and ready work force.
The reason why Tesla isn't able to direct sell in Texas isn't because the state government is against EVs, it is because the very strong dealership lobby has been able to block any legislation that would allow Tesla to direct sell in Texas without going to a dealership.
And because the legislature meets only 4 months every 2 years, that makes it even more difficult to get legislation allowing direct sales.
However... The lack of direct sales hasn't stopped Tesla from selling vehicles in Texas. I purchased my first Tesla at the beginning of 2013 and have bought an S & X and a 4 PowerWalls since then. Tesla installed the first superchargers outside of California in Texas.
Texas provides few government incentives - for anything not just for EVs or for installing solar panels. Instead, Texas provides incentive through having no income tax and a more business friendly environment.
Tesla strongly considered Texas for Gigafactory 1, and installing a Gigafactory in Texas would make a lot of sense for Tesla. It would be considerably less expensive to operate than the Fremont plant. Locating near Houston would provide affordable labor and access to the region's infrastructure with easy transportation access to much of the US and through the port for importing components and exporting vehicles.
Eventually the dealership lobby is going to lose their protections, and the dealerships will have to compete by demonstrating they provide value for sales and service. Tesla is selling, many vehicles in Texas - they are everywhere in Houston now, even without the ability to do direct sales (which Musk has already tried to kill once).
The location of a factory has nothing to do with the regulations on selling EVs in that state. Its cost to build, property taxes, time to get permit approved, workforce available, possibly incentives in the area.
California is extremely pro-"green", yet Elon indicated why they didnt build the gigafactory in California, because it would have taken more than 2 years to get a permit.
@andy.connor.e: "The location of a factory has nothing to do with the regulations on selling EVs in that state."
Agreed. I think the notion being floated here is more of a social one, to win over the hearts of minds of legislators, so they will overrule NADA. “Wait, you’re saying we build Teslas here in a Texas factory, but we’re not allowed to buy them in-state? That’s silly; let’s fix that”
@Xero, being allowed to sell would likely be worked out BEFORE there is an agreement for a factory in Texas.
But either way, it would happen.
Being allowed to sell before the factory is not a requirement. Factory is more likely to happen before the legislation to sell.
"Being allowed to sell before the factory is not a requirement."
Didn't say it was.
"Factory is more likely to happen before the legislation to sell"
Maybe. Don't underestimate a factory that employs near 10k people to a state, and the leverage Tesla would have.
I see it the same way what happened with California. Do you think building the gigafactory in Nevada caused California to change their laws about permits to allow them to process faster?
Oh, I see where you are going now. You mean the whole legislative process is done and the law was changed before the agreement was final.
I'm talking about the promise that things will be changed during the next session. I doubt that is unheard of.
California didn't have the political will for that. Texas may or may not.
ya, i am sure that the aspect of making the product in the state and you cant buy that product in that state will kind of trigger peoples bullshit meters
Ross1: O&G = Oil and Gas.
Actually Texas makes sense due to it being the largest pick up truck market in North America. So just Elon said, it makes sense to build vehicles in the region in which they will be sold, the same holds true to making trucks.
Houston Texas would be perfect.
Unless it is underwater
@ Wormtown Kris | February 5, 2020
“Why not a metropolitan area in a state that has always welcomed Tesla and sustainable vehicles?”
It’s not about being welcomed , it’s that Texas is the third most populated State(lots of Tesla buyers) and outside of California has the greatest number of Engineers(Tesla needs engineers). Texas has plenty of sun (solar for roof on GF.
With its high density of people, getting Tesla cars and trucks to them involves very little transportation time and costs.
Did I mention Texans love their pick up trucks!
Sun for solar
@jordanrichard and David N - exactly. Plus, Texas has a lot of cheap wind and (increasingly) solar energy available. Plus, even with the (over rated in my opinion) hurdles to buying Tesla cars in Texas they are _very popular_ here. I have owned my model 3 for 20 months and do a ton of road trips and I have yet to experience any "Tesla hate". Quite the opposite - I have had everyone from muscle car drivers to work crews in pickup trucks come up to me at Super Chargers and ask questions about my car.
If Tesla were to build a G.Factory in Texas, they’d be creating a hell of a lot of job there. I think Elon should negotiate a deal that includes the company at least being able to sell their product there. If not, he should go somewhere else.
I believe Elon will build in the heart of “anti tesla” country. Elon is a serious believer in the American system. If Elon does indeed build in Texas, creating American jobs, who will be making American made cars, designed , engineered and built in the U.S., those legislators will need to change the laws, otherwise those Texas voters will vote those bums out of office really quick. Don’t mess with the people of Texas. God bless America and God bless the people of the great State of Texas!
No one in Texas wants to work there, really.
Y'all know.Its a loyalty thang.
I think you underestimate Texans.
Where did a Toyota decide to build the Tundra?......Texas
The Texas legislature only meets for 4 months every two years, meeting next in early 2021.
If Tesla made a decision to build a Gigafactory in Texas (Cybertrucks? which should be very popular in Texas - we have one reserved), that could put more pressure on the legislature to address Tesla direct sales in Texas during the next legislative session.
Plus, Tesla could apply for a grant from the Texas Enterprise Fund (run out of the Governor's office), not only getting some state funding to help create new jobs in Texas, but also get support from the Governor, which could help to get Tesla some direct sales relief in 2021.
However... Musk tried to eliminate all direct sales - and the lack of direct sales hasn't prevented Tesla from selling a lot of vehicles in Texas or setting up galleries, service centers or superchargers.
Since the lack of direct sales hasn't stopped selling Tesla vehicles in Texas, not clear Tesla should expend any effort to fight against the dealership lobby to get direct sales approved...
Could be in texas due to utility costs, permit costs, duration to get a permit, construction team available, timeline to perform construction, incentives in the area, scalability with workforce and surrounding municipalities.
I would think providing jobs is less of a political boundary.
If the Cybertruck is built in Texas, that would put the factory closer to what could be the largest market for the truck.
For Tesla, cost of operating the factory should be much lower than what they have with Fremont, especially if they also manufacture the batteries/packs at the same plant as the truck (and maybe the semi?).
Plus, if the factory is near Houston, they'd also have easy transportation to and from port for importing parts and exporting vehicles.
Tesla considered Texas for GF1 - though with the logistics of transporting batteries from GF1 to Fremont, it always made much more sense to build it outside of California (where it's expensive to operate) as close as possible to Fremont.
Now that Tesla is experimenting with building their own batteries, a new GF should be able to build everything related to the vehicles, so proximity to Fremont shouldn't be an issue.
Easier to ship to the entire country when its produced in the center.
Since I live just north of Texas I could pick up my truck at the factory. Hope it happens there.
There is an image thing here
MS, MX built in The Republic of California
M3, the world car, showing it to the Chinese, the Germans, The Euro/Dutch?Wegians,
Roadster: The new American Dream
Cybertruck: Bullt in Texas for Texans
(Will be built everywhere else too eventually)
China Designer: World car: Asian design for Asia/Africa/India
CT: Official Mars Rover. Assembled on Mars. By Martians :))