Trump, Foxnews and MAGA hatters are protesting social distancing. Sweden chose to isolate only high risk people. Otherwise there was business as usual They hoped to achieve herd immunity in the absence of a vaccine. Anti-vaxers want to do this with measles flu etc. So how did the Swedes do?https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/04/29/sweden-no-lockdown-update-ph...
Wuhan had a lockdown but have now opened up. How has that worked out?https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/asia/wuhan-coronavirus-lockdown-analysis-...
And finally some advice on how to open up when the time is righthttps://www.cnn.com/2020/04/30/health/how-to-go-out-in-public-wellness-t...
Keep living in your alternate reality. In 1 month nothing has changed you are still spreading false news under the mirage of being a liberal doctor.
You are your fake docs gang are EVIL liars spreading lies and alternate science to spread FUD and push your tsla short AGENDA but you have NO CREDIBILITY.
@Magic no balls
I am all about lithium
Keep spreading FUD
Might consider this:
@JPPTM. So what point are you trying to debate. Personally I would agree that the arguments of the 2 Bakersfield physicians are flawed.
@SCC, I vote for continued isolation. We're still three weeks away from the peak here in Michigan last I heard so letting people go back to work in the next week or two does not sound like it will help. I don't want to see the curve just flatten, I want to see it going down. Steeply.
Of course we have the idiots protesting the stay at home order in Lansing again today. Honestly, some people got in the wrong line when God was handing out brains.
@Tabascoguy. We are on the same page.
I actually believe the stay at home orders should be more strict. I can't believe the number of cars I see go by the end of my street.
When the order was first put in place there was zero traffic, now cars are going by six or eight at a time, constantly. I guess most folks don't self govern very well.
I have no problem with people driving with closed windows. As long as they are going from point A to B. I have 2 homes 40 miles apart and my daughter and her family live 10 miles from my one home. I bike almost daily often to my daughter. I use a mask although I think it is likely superfluous.
Breaking news: we have heavily armed protesters inside the state capitol building threatening government workers.
OMG. I hope none of the workers or the state police protecting them are hurt or injured in any way. The protesters, that's another story.
I have no idea what the topic of this thread is. More useless bullshit. What is "social isolation"?
For example: Alameda County is still operating under a "Shelter in Place" order which is different than social isolation. Should we end strict "shelter in place" which was proposed to avoid overcrowded hospitals?
In Alameda County, yes.
Should we then impose additional restrictions before opening large gatherings, theaters, restaurants?
Should we require masks and gloves, as well as temperature checks in active workplaces?
Should these fucking threads die an ignominious death.
@Sam0. Looks like the social isolation is not treating you kindly.
Should have never closed down the country. Done more harm than good.
@minidoodini. And how do you come to that decision. Most people who know what they are talking about would disagree with you.
It's been long enough. My name is SamO. Not Sam0 (zero).
Now on to the substance:
1. I don't like being locking in my house. Correct. It should only be done in the most extreme circumstances where NO OTHER SOLUTION EXISTS.
2. You've ignored the nuance of the words of many people to strawman valid concerns.
3. There are enough trolls who advocate opening everything and let everyone just live or die, that I can't blame you that you are confused. I am not a troll. I want to use science. Shelter in place hasn't been shown, to me, to be the only option in the current circumstances.
That's the post.
@SamO. Apologies for mixing up the O with the zero. I don’t think we need to shelter in place but we need to social distance. I ride my bike daily with a mask although that is likely not necessary. When I walk I strongly recommend a mask as people don’t social distance enough. All our beaches and trails are closed. And it is not because we are the problem. But when other beaches are closed ours get flooded with people and it is uncontrollable. I strongly recommend people get out and get exercise. And even drive to people who are social distancing. Sadly to take care of the ignorant these rules need to be in place. I think Newsom has handled this incredibly well. We all need to use common sense. I am still seeing patients and doing what I can. But there are many things that need to be deferred. I work from home because I have our electronic medical record and can deal with a lot through my nurses and through telemedicine. I am just starting up video conferencing with zoom. I have had workers coming into my home. But I am using appropriate precautions. We have our groceries delivered, We order take our food occasionally. We drive between our homes and our daughter. I often bike to my daughter. Yes there is some risk to what I do but I believe I am keeping my risk as low as possible. I have dealt with pandemics and highly contagious diseases many times in my life and I know what I am doing. But many don’t.
I have a beef with making decisions based on the computer models, the data input and assumptions are flawed. Locally, the virus was in our community in Jan. I suspect I saw a bunch of COVID infections in Feb, but no one was testing. The total number of positive tests depends solely on how many people you test. We are still limited in testing only those who fit certain strict criteria.
Our hospitals never saw a surge, even before the shut down. While I fully support the actions taken in March, last I read our county had only 4 positive cases in the entire month of April. Our hospitals are still empty, staff are getting layed off.
The hold up here for us is swabs for testing. How pathetic is that? If we could test aggressively, quarantine and contact trace we could be like New Zealand. Slowly relaxing the shut down will only be successful when we can.
I do not believe there is a significant risk of transmission from a shared tennis ball, nor do I believe I will infect someone if I walk by them at 4 feet instead of 6.
Our focus needs to be strong on Nursing homes, prisons, and workplaces with hundreds of employees shoved into one room. Should have happened in February. Oh well.
Last random thought-given that we are many months away from a vaccine and reliable/accessible treatment whose to say that Norway’s and Finland’s total death rate may not eventually reach that of Sweden over time.
Also, I agree with Sam O-what are a bunch of Tesla geeks doing trashing each other on a message board?
Sorry, not 4 but 12
Social distancing is not the same as social isolation.
Key has always been TESTING. Until you can do basic epidemiology, test, isolate, track the infected which will requires millions of test kits, labs able to test them within hours, and hundreds of thousands of health care workers to do the tracking, there is no controlling it.
Lift the social distancing and mask rules and it will blow up again, flooding the hospitals and building on top of the current 100,000 2019 Covid-19 deaths.
Trump's failure was and is failure to put US industry to work with text kits, testing, public health track/isolate system and in mfg. the protective gear and ventilators needed by hospitals.
We are pushing SIX MONTHS and this is still not even being organized.
Indeed I was loose with my terms so I will correct the record
@Trixiew. I agree pretty much with what you said. It’s all about reducing risk. And indeed the viral load from a healthy carrier is likely to be less than that of a coughing and sneezing carrier. And a tennis ball likely carries very little viral load. But this is as contagious or more contagious than a common cold. And there are many examples of symptomatic people spreading it to multiple people.
All I can say is if you look compare California to other states whatever they did was better than others
Some companies are returning some workers. My company has 25% return to the office for a week, repeat every 4 weeks, with considerable support for social distancing. Much quieter, little contact with anyone. Yet I wish management would recognize that telecommuting done properly & respectfully is more productive.
However, much of manufacturing & services cannot be done remotely. Can those company work environments be suitably modified for adequate social distancing if output is limited? If so, why not let them?
If not, more companies are further motivated to replace workers with automation.
Not entirely true, the more we comply the sooner the government can start *thinking* about reducing social distancing measures. If we all comply, and the spread slows and then we all go back to business-as-usual, we will be right back in the same situation.
There is going to need to be some way to either build herd immunity in a controlled and measured environment, or a rapid adoption and rollout of new safety measures. https://www.get-shareit.win/
@teslu3. If the medical professional can limit staff in the office and face to face contact others can also. We are using telemedicine and zoom as much as possible. It’s not ideal but it is best for the moment. Restaurants have been allowed to takeout which I think works well but no dining in. So I suspect tech can also adapt. It’s temporary. But a lot of these strategies could be adopted in the future. Why increase cars on the road and pollute the air And have people stuck in traffic when people can do the same from home