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JUST HAD $3,000 in damage due to X ROLLING BACKWARDS

JUST HAD $3,000 in damage due to X ROLLING BACKWARDS

As a new Tesla X owner and a lover of the brand, I was EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED to be involved in a completely avoidable accident a couple days ago.

Situation:
- Was parked, nose up, on a hill, both front and back cars had parked close to me. Not much clearance.
- Creep mode was ON
- Was proceeding to exit spot in drive when my X ROLLED BACKWARDS RIGHT INTO THE TRUCK BEHIND ME. $3,000 worth of damage to my brand new car.
- After I inspected damages and tried to leave spot again, I almost had another accident as the X ROLLED BACKWARDS AGAIN.

I immediately called my local Tesla dealer and asked for answers. Employee explained to me that I must not have had my Hill brake on. "user error"--- ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE ANSWER.

HOWEVER- with the price I paid, I expect Tesla to be able to ensure this type of rollback is impossible (imagine worst case scenario-- a person had walked behind my car since i was in drive mode..).

What SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED to prevent this accident:
1. BETTER TRAINING WHEN I RECEIVED VEHICLE. I have NO RECALL of understanding that I needed to press the brake "extra long" to engage some sort of hill brake. This was NEWS to me. I was told by the Tesla employee that the information is in the manual. I HAD NO REASON TO LOOK THIS UP IN THE MANUAL SINCE 99% of automatic cars do not ROLL BACK. Why would I suspect something different??
2. This car is smart, but not smart enough to prevent senseless accidents-- please create algorithm that checks if: A. is the car parked on a hill? IF YES- B. is CREEP MODE ON? (then i definitely want forward motion like an automatic car) IF YES- C. is there a lack of clearance between the cars? IF YES D. increase resistance so that driver does not roll backwards!

PLEASE TESLA READ THIS AND FIX THIS PROBLEM. WE ARE ALL EARLY ADOPTERS AND TESTING THIS CAR FOR YOU. I JUST SUSTAINED $3,000 WORTH OF DAMAGES TO TEST THE X. I DEMAND SOME RESOLUTION FROM YOU.

Vawlkus | October 27, 2016

So....... you screwed up and it's all Tesla's fault. Ok.

Next time, RTFM

wang5150 | October 27, 2016

Sorry to have had this happen to you, but this behavior is like any other car. You can put the car in drive mode but if the hill is steep enough, it will start to roll backwards. This would be similar with creep mode on a steep hill.

On the Tesla, you can firmly step on the brake pedal and you will see the (H) icon appear on your dash to indicate hill break is enabled. This would prevent rollback although I haven't tested this on really steep hills yet so I'm still ready to apply the brake in these situations.

lilbean | October 27, 2016

You won't see the H on creep mode.

MXBlack | October 27, 2016

I have creep mode on and do see the H which I literally used it every time I comes to a stop just to not take a chance of it rolling back.

lilbean | October 27, 2016

Hmm. I don't see it when mine is on creep.

burdogg | October 27, 2016

Sorry to hear it. I don't agree though with blaming Tesla. I read through the whole manual while I waited for the production of my car. Trying to blame someone else when you choose not to read the manual is sad. Everything comes with a manual and when you choose to bypass it and not read it, you are fully responsible for what may happen, with whatever you buy.

Not to get after you, but I see this so frequent in our culture, when something bad happens to us, or is going to cost us money, we look around and find who we can point the finger at to pay for it so we don't have to. Instead of saying, ah, I should have xyz and accept responsibility.

yuendds | October 27, 2016

I see the "H" and I have creep mode on. Totally not Tesla fault! Read the instruction manual.

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

@njakus

So sorry to hear about the damage, if you're anything like me, the MX is family, so I'm sure it hurts.

Also, as others have said, you really should have read the manual.

With that being said, I do believe that it would not be all too difficult for Tesla to incorporate some code in a future update that would preclude the vehicle from moving backwards in any condition.

Hope you reach out to them with this (in my opinion) sensible option.

lilbean | October 27, 2016

It also rolls forward while in reverse when trying to back up a hill.

Teslapalooza | October 27, 2016

@njakus - really sorry to hear of this scary experience and monetary loss. I completely agree with you the critical safety aspects of driving a Tesla must have been explained clearly at delivery time. This in my mind is a critical safety aspect!!!

Even low end cars such as Honda CRV has a feature where the car will not roll back even an inch when you are on a Hill on a stop and go traffic. For example try going up the Lombard street in San Francisco towards crooked street. It is a very steep hill and usually stop and go traffic. Honda CRV works really well whereas most other cars roll back quite a bit. If a consumer car can put in such a feature, I find it hard to imagine that a Luxury car can't do that. I wish Tesla is listening and taking note.

I am amazed how a few of the folks are willing to put the entire blame on you and give a complete pass for Tesla. In real world, only people who have nothing else to do in life read car manuals cover to cover. Most people look it up when needed for referring something.

lilbean | October 27, 2016

Wait. The manual is no longer available to read on "My Tesla".

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

@lilbean - I wonder if it has anything to do with an update manual being issues pending tomorrow's new product announcement o_O

njakus | October 27, 2016

I have an infiniti and a Lexus (and a volvo prior), and NEVER have I experienced the force of the rollback on the X. I am not a whiner trying to blame the company, but really, with all the investment in Autopilot and other futuristic safety features, coming up with a better way to prevent such strong rollback seems a no-brainer. Even a warning pop-up to remind the user that the conditions indicate a dangerous rollback situation (e.g. - slope + closely parked cars = no room for error, then display "please ensure your hill brake is activated").

And if you read the manual cover to cover, kudos to you. However, with 3 kids at home and a full time job, I refer to the manual on an as-needed basis as I suspect most users.

I AM TRYING TO MAKE TESLA BETTER.

Do Tesla reps not read this forum? I was hoping I found the forum to get the message over to them. Any idea?

cpmarino | October 27, 2016

Ok, calm down all you RTFM folks ... jeez. Do people really read the manual for stuff like that?

Having said that, how is this different than ANY OTHER AUTOMATIC CAR EVER PRODUCED? If you are on a steep hill, nose pointing upward, and you drop it into drive, the car will roll back if the hill is steep enough, and certainly this hill must have been steep enough if the damage was $3000. Many cars have hill hold features ... on my car there is a button rather than pressing the brake twice (ala Tesla & MB) ... either way its not on all the time and you have to engage it.

More importantly, for there to be $3k in damage the car had to be moving pretty quickly, so how is it that you didn't feel the car rolling backward and just step on the brake before it hit the other car?

lilbean | October 27, 2016

@ethan, Is there another announcement?

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

OMG can we PLEASE get an 'edit' option for our posts

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

@lilbean - well there's that Tesla Solar City joint thing tomorrow right? I'm kinda hoping they'll do more than 1 (solar roof) product announcement (like maybe they'll begin to incorporate charging stalls where that snake-looking think automatically docks on to your car). I know. Wishful thinking.

lilbean | October 27, 2016

@ethan, oh yeah! Duh! I RSVPed. LOL. I just had an In-n-Out burger and I'm in a food coma.

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

@lilbean LOL - nothin like goin belly-up on my recliner after a fatburger

lilbean | October 27, 2016

@ethan, LOL!

Tâm | October 27, 2016

@njakus

I had other cars (both manual and automatic transmissions) before a Tesla and they all rolled back on a steep hill.

I disagree that this is Tesla's fault.

When you go to court, what count is: Did a car manufacturer include a relevant information in an Owner's Manual?

It is strongly recommended that you must read your Owner's Manual or hire someone to read it for you.

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

"hire someone to read it for you"? Come on, don't talk down to the guy/gal... It's clear they're upset about the damage, as anyone would be. Sure, it's not Tesla's fault by any stretch, but I still think there's a great opportunity to be had here where Tesla can incorporate an on/off toggle allowing the operator to engage said option. I for one would definitely use it!

Tâm | October 27, 2016

@Ethan_M

Tesla does work on improving your car all the time even when there is no lawsuit or blames.

It is fine to request a safety feature or to suggest an improvement.

However, when drivers got into trouble as in Autopilot that sometimes hits stationary vehicles, they got mad and want to blame and sue Tesla. The problem with that is: The scenario is spelled out exactly in Owner's Manual described one of its limitations!

One Chinese Speaking owner claims that all the warnings/messages are in English so how can he read it? If you want to cover all the bases, it is not unreasonable to hire somebody to read it for you.

However, to blame Tesla because it's clearly described in the Owner's Manual is not cool!

lilbean | October 27, 2016

This makes me want to buy wheel chocks just in case.

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

Hey @Tâm - I believe we're saying the same thing.

I'm also saying that, like the 'creep' feature, this too would be a great feature to add. You know, for folks that either don't read the manual, or for folks who forget, or for folks who want one less thing to think about!

As a side note, I do think that if Tesla keeps adding small convenience features, seasoned Tesla drivers may someday find themselves nervous if forced to drive an ICE vehicle again :-)

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

@lilbean - speaking of the Tesla Solar City joint thing tomorrow, Elon just tweeted "solar roof unveil now at 5:30pm sharp (need daylight, for obvious reasons) California time tomorrow."

No mention of any other product unveils...

lilbean | October 27, 2016

@ethan, I'm still waiting for my Powerwall. Lol!

Tâm | October 27, 2016

@Ethan_M

I agree.

Tesla is evolving and some day there's no need to shift blame any more because technology solves the the problem.

I must admit that my tone is harsh but until technology improves to a reasonable degree, the old boring, inefficient, time-consuming bureaucratic/legal system of Owner's Manual is still very important.

@njakus

Thanks for keeping us informed and as well as your valuable inputs to improve the safety of driving!

Ethan_M | October 27, 2016

Gimme solar! Gimme powerwall! I want it all too!!

njakus | October 27, 2016

For more clarification:
- the slope was maybe 15%. not crazy, but not negligible.
- Hitting the front of a crazy pickup truck with a steel grill, even just with rollback, cracked the whole back panel and scratched the tailgate and bumper. Hence $3000 in repairs.

OF COURSE I hit the brake as i realize the rollback, but i was too close to the other car and it the damage was done.

I am asking for better security features to prevent this unnecessary and easily fixable problem!

njakus | October 27, 2016

maybe 20-25 degree slope. hard to say.

aesculus | October 27, 2016

There was another thread on this same topic a month or so ago. The car in creep mode or not, will not hold forward or backwards on a hill in D or R unless you hold the pedal down and engage the H.

Personally I wish it was a bit more aggressive when you are on hills or at least beeped or warned you when your direction of travel is the opposite of the direction you have selected. If you are not paying attention, this sort of scenario is easy to duplicate.

I also think Creep Mode is evil, but that is another topic.

eharden007 | October 27, 2016

I must have read the manual 3 times during the summer before my X came earlier this month.

Teslapalooza | October 27, 2016

@cpmarino: You have said "If you are on a steep hill, nose pointing upward, and you drop it into drive, the car will roll back if the hill is steep enough,"

This is NOT TRUE in all cars. !!!

I know for a fact that some low end mass market cars such as Honda CRV has a feature where the car will not roll back even an inch when you are on a Hill on a stop and go traffic. For example try going up the Lombard street in San Francisco towards crooked street. It is a very steep hill and usually stop and go traffic. Honda CRV works really well whereas most other cars roll back quite a bit. If a consumer car can put in such a feature, I find it hard to imagine that a Luxury car can't do that. I wish Tesla is listening and taking note.

cica3838 | October 27, 2016

I don't necessarily agree with many of the forum members. For automatic ICE cars, it is not necessary to read the manual when it comes to simply driving the car. People usually read the manual for the infotainment system etc. As well, most automatic cars automatically prevent roll back, and I'm guessing this owner naturally assumed that Tesla would have such a basic feature. I do side with this person.

Teslapalooza | October 27, 2016

@njakus - I am sure you have the full backing of a large majority of MX owners in what you are asking for from Tesla in terms of corrective action.

I see a lot of ridiculous comments being posted by the RTFM crowd

mrrjm | October 27, 2016

The price of the car has nothing to do with Stupid!

lilbean | October 27, 2016

Would curbing your wheels properly have avoided this?

bhoskins | October 27, 2016

I live in the mountains and have a very steep driveway. Most of our roads have an uphill/downhill component. I've never had an issue with the hill hold, but maybe it's because I don't use creep. To me creep seems like it's sole purpose is to mimic an automatic transmission...

Tâm | October 28, 2016

@lilbean

Would curbing your wheels might incur hundreds of dollars worth of scratching the rims?

lilbean | October 28, 2016

@Tam, when wheels are properly curbed, you do not scratch the rims. When facing uphill, the wheels should be turned to the left with the back of the tire against the curb.

psusi | November 2, 2016

Umm... even in a regular car, if you are parked on a steep hill, and you take your foot off the brake, you roll backwards, don't you? Or maybe I'm just too used to stick shifts.

Silver2K | November 3, 2016

ps +1

I never see my H on creep mode on MS.

Silver2K | November 3, 2016

beans +1 on wheels turned properly

eddiemoy | November 3, 2016

hill hold is totally different than hold. hold feature is in all ap enabled cars. hill hold is in pre ap cars.

Redmiata98 | November 3, 2016

Njakus, I understand that you do not have to go very fast in reverse to cause costly damage. I backed into a post that was the same color as a non-Tesla charger I was stopping at and the cost was just over $7k. I did not notice the post in the rear screen and my sensors did not alert on it. i was barely moving but it was enough to crease the hatchback in such a way that it required replacement which also then required repainting and blending.

Should I blame the owner of the recharge station because they should have painted the post a contrasting color so it could be easily seen? Should I blame Tesla because the sensor did not alert?

No, I was driving and I am responsible for the actions of the vehicle. It is my responsibilty to understand the operations and shortcomings of my vehicle. There are warnings in the Owners Guide about backing and I have read them. Sometimes things just happen, get over it and enjoy driving your X!

Teslapalooza | November 4, 2016

Here you go again.... Unsolicited advise to the OP.

The real message that Njakus is trying to send to Tesla is lost in these types of rants. I thought his suggestion #2 was really a sensible one, and it can certainly be impleneted by Tesla, perhaps even with just a software update.

2. This car is smart, but not smart enough to prevent senseless accidents-- please create algorithm that checks if: A. is the car parked on a hill? IF YES- B. is CREEP MODE ON? (then i definitely want forward motion like an automatic car) IF YES- C. is there a lack of clearance between the cars? IF YES D. increase resistance so that driver does not roll backwards!

PBEndo | November 4, 2016

I have sympathy for not reading the manual, since I never did. However, assuming the car would not roll backwards on a 25 degree slope is your mistake. Had you read the manual and it stated that it would not roll back that would be a different story. When the Tesla rep said "USER ERROR" they were correct. I have never owned a car that would not roll backwards on that kind of slope, though I know some exist. I would never assume a car had that capability activated without some confirmation (via the manual, demonstration, dash indicator, etc.)

That being said, I agree that your feature request is reasonable.

Teslapalooza | November 4, 2016

If you have been in the SF area going uphill on Lombard street towards crooked street, it is over 30 degrees slope. There are cars (mass market cars such as Honda CRV) that have a feature where the car will not roll back even an inch on that steep a slope. It is certainly doable for Tesla. I hope they make a note of the discussions in this forum.

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