Why NOT Audit the Election?

Why NOT Audit the Election?

The bad news is that many states do not require voting systems that can be audited by immutable paper. If a touchscreen voting machine was hacked, and if there is no voter verified audit trail, then an audit won't prove much.

The good news is that some of the important states in the 2016 election DO require paper or a paper trail I don't vouch for the website ballotpedia DOT org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state, but it, at least, purports to show the states that have auditable results.

Among the states listed on the ballotpedia site are Wisconsin (must have paper trail), Pennsylvania (does NOT require paper trail), Florida (does NOT require paper trail), Michigan (requires paper ballot).

It's a whole other question why some states allow voting systems without paper audit trails. But, why not audit the states that do have paper audit trails? What's the harm?

Again, I don't vouch for the accuracy of the ballotpedia DOT org site. The data is generally consistent with the VerifiedVoting DOT org website which shows Florida and Pennsylvania do not require a paper audit trail.

compchat | November 24, 2016

Do you not remember the chad controversey ? Paper ballots are subject to many errors. Are the chads punched or hanging. Did the voter mean to push the chad but didn't have the strength.

Were the circles dark enough to be read by the reader (pencil circle ballot). Etc. Adnausem.

That's why we went to the computerized voting. When I voted I saw the results on the screen and on a paper that was printed and kept. Those paper ballots are simply print outs of the electric balloting and shouldn't be different. I have no problem with random sample collections comparing the two forms of simultaneous voting. I do have a problem with sampling only specific states because some people don't like the outcome of the election and are desperate to change the outcome.

IMO a recount is out of the question. However random comparisons should continue.

SO | November 24, 2016

Recounts should be done if the counts are very close.

Remnant | November 24, 2016

@Sabbia (OP, November 23, 2016)

<< Why NOT Audit the Election? >>

An audit is not likely to make Hillary the winner anyway.

And she's damaged goods on the top of it: a consecrated liar and a traitor, with a history of concussion, fainting spells, and blood thinning treatment that requires a nurse as companion at all times.

Hardly the image of Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces.

Are you lightheaded? You cannot justify the burden of a voting audit on the public purse with your misguided attempt of rescuing the Crook-in-Chief in order to make her Commander-in-Chief.

David N | November 24, 2016

might be true, but a still a bit harsh.
I simply see it as voters who cannot accept that they lost. I have other thoughts on the subject but not for this forum.
As far as the audit, probably not.

malcolm.hall1932 | November 24, 2016

Remnant: are you for real, or were you describing Trump when you said "not fit to be Commander in Chief".
There won't be any hit on the public purse. $3m raised already and time to raise more. Try and keep up.

kevin | November 24, 2016

South Carolina uses non-audit voting machines because our legislature is too cheap to update our barely working touch screen units.

SCCRENDO | November 24, 2016

As someone who believes in democracy even if Hillary had won and there was a question of voter fraud, hacking etc I would have said let's investigate. Why have a cloud hanging over everyone's head. When Gore contested the 2000 election it was investigated and when they found Bush to be the winner Gore conceded and nobody questioned Bush's legitimacy. On the other hand the Republicans continually questioned Obama's legitimacy despite his overwhelming victory led by Trump's birther movement. If there was voter fraud let the Justice dept do its thing. If not lets hold our noses get behind Trump and hope for rationality and/or gridlock.

vperl | November 24, 2016

View the whole video the complete video for actual facts.

vperl | November 24, 2016

Actually these folks know what and who is doing the fraud and do not speak up.

It is called the. " VINCE FOSTER SYNDROME "

carlk | November 24, 2016

Investigate of course. Whether it changes election outcome is unimportant, yes I'm even willing to let Trump to be the President anyway, but we need learn the truth and prevent similar things to happen again in the future. You can't sweep something this important under the rug.

lilbean | November 24, 2016

+1 carlk

SCCRENDO | November 24, 2016

@carlk. +1. Unfortunately some don't get it. Van Perley is still looking for Vince Foster's killers. We have moved on from the Clintons.

vperl | November 24, 2016

Read and weep losers

vperl | November 24, 2016

Boozers are losers.

View video what is the problem

vperl | November 24, 2016

View the video. or shut your pie hole loser

bigd | November 24, 2016

Carlk, "I'm even willing to let Trump to be the President anyway" I couldn't sleep worrying if you was going to let Trump be president. Just kidding I know what you meant, you put it into perspective. +1

Dofpic | November 24, 2016

Liberals are such whiners and sore losers.

compchat | November 25, 2016

You must have definitive proof, not just rank speculation, that there was actual substantial fraud/cheating or mistakes leading to the Trump Victory.

Otherwise elections will NEVER end. There will be recount after recount.

Trump won. Hilliary conceeded. Period. She actually hasn't called for a recount. I wonder why?

Face it, Hilliiary didn't and still doesn't have the strength or stamina to be president. She has significant health problems that have been well hidden by the Clintons. I'd like to see her real medical records. And to be fair, Trumps' as well.

vperl | November 25, 2016

Democrat operatives doing their best for voter fraud over many years tens of thousands of Voters over these years fraudulently voting. Democrat operatives planning explaining and dissecting how they commit voter fraud.

SO | November 25, 2016

@Dofpic - if you think it is only liberals who complain, you are sadly mistaken. I would say people on BOTH sides are equally deserving of that statement.

Dofpic | November 25, 2016

@Soudman There are always some but the volume on the Dem side speaks volume to their maturity level. At least they don't go into the streets to demonstrate and whine like a bunch of 17 year olds. They all look like teenagers upset because mommy or daddy took the car away. You did not see this all this whining in the streets after carter in 1976, clinton won in 92,96 or obama in 2008 or 2012. It really is pathetic

vperl | November 25, 2016
SO | November 25, 2016

@dofpic - those democrats don't speak for me. But you honestly don't think republicans would have done the same if the situation was reversed? Do the KKK marchers speak for you? I don't think so.

Open your eyes man. Stop blaming just one party. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting we have one.

lilbean | November 25, 2016

Wasn't the KKK founded by the Democratic Party?

vperl | November 25, 2016

Yes, it was a topic they will try to twist.

How about George Wallace, Many Democrats in the U.S. Congress just a few decades back an some now.

SO | November 25, 2016

Lilbean - that is correct. But I'd say the democratic and republican parties have changed quite a bit since then. I'd also say that I have seen a lot more support for Trump by the KKK than Hillary.

Would you not agree?

vperl | November 25, 2016

Just Two of many Democrats..... The Democrats knew Black was Kkk member when he was being vetted for the court. Byrd was a well known KKK... Not a secret

Robert Byrd

Senator Robert Byrd was a Kleagle, a Klan recruiter, in his 20s and 30s.
Robert C. Byrd, a Democrat, was a recruiter for the Klan while in his 20s and 30s, rising to the title of Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops of his local chapter. After leaving the group, Byrd spoke in favor of the Klan during his early political career. Though he claimed to have left the organization in 1943, Byrd wrote a letter in 1946 to the group's Imperial Wizard stating "The Klan is needed today as never before".

Hugo Black

Supreme Court justice Hugo Black
In 1921, Hugo Black successfully defended E. R. Stephenson in his trial for the murder of a Catholic priest, Fr. James E. Coyle. Black, a Democrat, joined the Ku Klux Klan shortly after, in order to gain votes from the anti-Catholic element in Alabama. He built his winning Senate campaign around multiple appearances at KKK meetings across Alabama.

SO | November 25, 2016

Vperl - so you are going to blindly disregard how much the KKK supports Trump?

Or is that a topic you are going to try and twist?

malcolm.hall1932 | November 25, 2016

I wouldn't get too happy with yourselves just yet. Trump seems busy on watering down all the promises that made you adore him so much! He's filling the swamp not emptying it - his children mixing business interests with Presidential duties (Pay to Play!). He won't be going after Hillary - all that excitement you dreamed of !!
He owes $650m to China - so much for making them toe the line in trade deals. Not looking too good so far.
Try and keep your chin up. We're just starting to have fun - suckers !!!

SO | November 25, 2016

Vperl - you definitely take the price for picking and choosing. Perhaps you should read a few more of the folk who were KKK members. The republicans are no absolved of this either.


SO | November 25, 2016

Price = prize

SO | November 25, 2016

@malcolm - President Obama said "you're going to miss me when I'm gone."

That will be more obvious as time goes on.

I think thinks will look good for the next few years and then the greed will set in and we will have another 2008 situation. Oh well.... I will be fine.

lilbean | November 25, 2016

@soudman, I agree. That is obvious. I think these white supremacists are using the election as an excuse to show their hatred, something they've wanted to do in public for a very long time. It's sickening.

SO | November 25, 2016

@lilbean - Agreed. we need to shutdown the extremists on both sides of the aisle.

lilbean | November 25, 2016


lilbean | November 25, 2016

There is corruption everywhere, even in the PTA. Lol.

SCCRENDO | November 25, 2016

@malcolm. I do take some comfort in that Trump never keeps his promises. Also indeed he could be a stumbling block to pure Republican policies and personally I am hoping for gridlock. The Republicans are in for many surprises when they see what they have gotten. But democrats should take no comfort. I dont think he is our friend either. We are in for a bumpy ride. And everyone needs to buckle their seat belts.

vperl | November 25, 2016

I will miss Obama, like a violent terrible case of diarrhea

malcolm.hall1932 | November 25, 2016

It's no where near as bad as buyers remorse. He now likes some parts of Obamacare!
He is now going to give Climate Change some more thought!
And as for your favorite Build a Wall - if he does that in the first year, I'll vote for him in 4 years time - I think I'm safe on that one!
Sccrendo:: + 1 for being reasonable and calm. I'm working on it!

SO | November 25, 2016

@vperl - I don't care if you miss Obama or not. But it's easy for you to say that now. Especially when it looks like you only have one eye open on the democrats but the other eye closed on the republicans. You crack me up.

vperl | November 25, 2016
SO | November 25, 2016

Talk about a broken record.

vperl | November 25, 2016

Are you still wearing that helmet and knee pads and padded gloves, you are so tender

Good Fortune

SNOWFLAKEs are people too.

Your mommie has your room in the basement for your safe space.

Did you get the Snowflake care package ? They ran out of crayons n your package, you will get them "soon" the backorder is also "coming soon"

Good Fortune

lilbean | November 25, 2016

@vperl, Haha! I had no idea what a snowflake was when I first heard it from you. I had to google it. Lol. All that time, I thought you were talking about me and I figured out about a week ago that you weren't. I learn new terminology from you. :-) so funny! I was getting offended when I didn't need to because I didn't understand what you were referring to. I'm glad I figured it out. Peace. :-)

McLary | November 25, 2016

I remember in Canada, about 15 years ago, a right wing party gained power in Ontario. Keep in mind that a Canadian right winger, is the equivalent of a right leaning democrat, at worst.

The opposition was all up in arms because they proceeded to actually do all the things that they said they would do. It was considered an outrage that political leaders would follow through on campaign promises.

Another entertaining anecdote from Canada; When a left of centre party won power with 37% of the popular vote, it was held up as a shining example of parliamentary democracy at its' finest. When a right leaning party later won power with 38% of the vote, it was declared a shameful misrepresentation of the will of the people, and demands were made for representative allocation of seats. (keep in mind Canada uses a 3 party system, so 37% can gain you a majority government if the seats fall just right)

SCCRENDO | November 25, 2016

@mclary. What's the point of your comment?



Actually just kidding

compchat | November 26, 2016


You said: I do take some comfort in that Trump never keeps his promises.

What promises ? How can he keep promises when he hasn't served one day in office yet. How dense can you get ?

He promised he will build a wall and he will.

malcolm.hall1932 | November 26, 2016

Compchat: you believe that if it gives you comfort. But the signs aren't looking too good so far. Keep up or you'll be the dense one.

Remnant | November 26, 2016

@lilbean (November 25, 2016)

<< I had no idea what a snowflake was when I first heard it from you. I had to google it. Lol.>>

It's good for the thread to point this out.

We are faced with a linguistic onslaught of misleading or vague terms suggesting claims of hurt or damage from the whining generations, who are unable to accept responsibility for their actions, but seek to blame their inconvenient status or circumstances on other people.

Terms like "snowflake" or "microaggression" are not legitimate agents of honest intellectual exchange, but stealth vehicles of irresponsible pretenses and disguised parasitism..

They are a form of cowardice and entitlement from people infantilized (or, perhaps, just "toddlerized"?) by the monsters who have populated our educational establishment in the last 2 to 3 decades, as "educators".

SO | November 26, 2016

@compchat - "He promised he will build a wall and he will."

What constitutes "build" the wall in your opinion? Does it have to be x miles long and x feet high?

Trump has promised a lot of things. He also promised to investigate Hillary. He has backpedalled on that.

Trump has said about repealing and replacing Obamacare. Now it sounds like he is going to keep major parts of it and then just slap his own name on it.

Trump stated about "draining the swamp". Already that's debatable.

Trump has said about getting money out of politics. But he is allowing more to come through than Obama did.

Trump has also said about helping the middle class. That's actually true! It looks like a whopping 2%. Meanwhile the top 1% will get about 13%.

The other funny thing is that these corporations complain about these high tax rates. But with so many deductions, their effective tax rate is much lower.

Trump isn't even in office yet and he has changed quite a bit. Now, he could go back the other way again. I have no idea. But it is "interesting" to see how this will play out.