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Power Wall

Power Wall

Anyone know anybody who has a powerwall 2 installed i their home? I can't seem to get any answers on this product (I live in Washington). This wall is rapidly becoming a myth to me even though I gave them my $500 bucks almost 2 months ago. I submitted an email regarding my concerns with the installation of this product at my home but I only seem to get TESLA spam in return.

mark.willing | March 1, 2017

I had the same experience. I have tried to contact Tesla by written communication a number of times,...no response at all. I ended up calling and did receive some vague answers. You might have better luck calling. More to your inquiry though, when I called the first week in Feb. '17, I was able to speak with a representative regarding my Powerwall 2 installation. At that particular time, they did not have information regarding specific installers in my area. All they said was that, in my area, I would be contacted sometime in April or May to set up a consultation and installation date.

sean | March 1, 2017

I have seen no response to my emails (to nasales@tesla.com and powerwallorders@tesla.com) either. I was able to reach a rep on the phone yesterday after about 10 minutes hold time and he said they are doing Powerwall2+Solar installations now and standalone Powerwall installations begin in "March or April". I asked for a more specific timeline or any information about Tesla installers in our area and he couldn't provide any additional details.

We pre-ordered multiple units and it's not very encouraging that Tesla hasn't taken a few bucks out of the reportedly millions in pre-order dollars for a skeleton staff to definitively answer a few relatively simple questions.

I would like to see:

- An official roll-out schedule. At least one outside blog reports utility PowerPacks are already shipping, but the last Tesla blog entry about the Powerwall was two months ago. Given recent negative press about Tesla financials, some new info certainly wouldn't hurt.

- In depth specifications and technical downloads. I want to control the Powerwall 2 via software for intelligent load shifting, but there is no public information available on an API or control interface. The phone staff seems only able to direct me to the "become an installer" link on the web site. I am an independent software developer. I have no interest in becoming a certified installer.

- Order status: Surely my order confirmation number is in a database somewhere. Why is there no place to check order status?

I'm pretty confident in Tesla's ability to product a decent power product. I'm not nearly as confident in their ability to support it given the minimal visible infrastructure currently being allocated to it :(.

Mike83 | March 1, 2017

As they ramp up production more Powerwalls and Powerpacks will be available. GF 1 is expanding and they are shipping them but the M3 release may be more of a priority. I ordered an M3 and want that first; then the Powerwall at a later date and perhaps a Tesla Solar Roofing system on a newly planned home.
If you want a job Tesla has openings.

jemison000 | March 2, 2017

Thanks for the info.

mark.willing | March 2, 2017

There is a rumor circulating today that the DC Powerwall 2 "has been killed". I do not want to be responsible for "fake news" or "alternative facts", but since I just recently spent a "s**t-load" of money on my new solar energy system with the Solaredge inverter specifically designed for the DC Powerwall. I need some reassurance. The DC Powerwall offers back-up power in the event of a power outage. So,...TESLA,...please tell me that the DC Powerwall has not been discontinued. I am one of the first in your queue for installation. I do not want to go through the process of requesting my $500 deposit back.

lilbean | March 2, 2017

Whatever happened to Powerwall 1? I was supposed to get that.

venomous04 | March 2, 2017

Wow this is not good. I put a deposit for 2 back in November. At the time they were claiming installations would start in January and now here we are in March and an installed Powerwall 2 is harder to find than Bigfoot. I also called them for an update and they promptly told me to call Solar City since supposedly they would now handle installations. Solar City of course knows nothing and tells me to call Tesla and round and round I go. Anyway, 6 months ago I was going to go all in on Tesla: Powerwall and probably get a Model S. This whole experience has soured things for me and I don't intend to give these guys a penny more than my battery deposit although I'm not really sure what to do at this point. My electric utility is ripping me off with their rates and I really need these batteries but I'm also starting to lose patience with their whole customer service non experience and lack of updates. Grrrr!!!

Dcp9142 | March 2, 2017

They got my money too. And they ignore email inquiries about the status. So it seems to be vaporware and to not be important to Mr. Musk. Time to make a fuss?

mark.willing | March 3, 2017

OK. In this morning. https://electrek.co/2017/03/02/tesla-powerwall-2-dc-version-ac/ . The DC version will be available in the US for use with specific Solaredge inverters. The DC version will not be available outside the US. To the best of my knowledge: The DC version is the one without the inverter, and allows for "off-grid" use during a power outage when mated with the proper inverter. The AC version has the integrated inverter, making it less expensive for those installing solar for the first time, but when used in a grid-tied configuration, will not allow the owner to use the battery power during a power outage. My personal system will be grid-tied, as I live in a residential area,...but 99% of the time I will be using my own power as if I were "off grid". I will have an auto-start natural gas generator that will automatically charge the battery in the event that I run the battery down when there isn't enough power coming from the PV panels. More to follow.

yasitaan | March 6, 2017

WTF. Here we go again. I thought this might be different than getting my Tesla but it appears the same customer service plan is in effect. I have numerous questions about the power wall install, but cannot find any resource on the Tesla site.

sean | March 9, 2017

Hear ya, yasitaan.

I don't know what is worse:

A) Dealing with a company willing to deposit $1,500 with no communication but an automated email in spite of our calls and emails (we get better support for $15 Amazon or NewEgg orders)!

B) Knowing there's an product currently being shipped which can make a tremendous difference in our daily lives, but which is apparently being shipped only to corporations who didn't put down hard earned cash, but who represent a better investment or PR opportunity for Tesla than the general public do.

None of my paranoid rambling may be true, but without ANY info from Tesla to say otherwise, who knows?

One thing is certain: Every day Tesla ignores SOHO and small business buyers is a day we can't in good conscience say good things about Tesla to our clients :(

bj | March 9, 2017

@mark.willing - "but when used in a grid-tied configuration, will not allow the owner to use the battery power during a power outage"

Huh? What's the point of that? Surely the whole point of a Powerwall is to store your solar generation and to keep the lights on if the grid goes off.

Ross1 | March 10, 2017

I posted a link somewhere today.
Elons cousin Lyndon Rive is in AUS launching P2 and has offered to sort Australias woes in 100 days with a bunch of P2s.
My wife said it is probably typically Tesla being over enthusiastic about programs, I didnt know she knew...
The link is under "Lyndon Rive..or Tesla..can make Aus great again"

mark.willing | March 10, 2017

@bj-I've learned a bit since that last comment. This is, I believe, more accurate information from SolarQuotes "Tesla Kills off DC Powerwall 2". This is out of Australia. Currently, the DC version will be available in the US and will be compatible with certain Solaredge inverters.

" Full home backup
Full home backup is simply using energy from the batteries to power the home when the grid is down. Crucially this usually does not include charging the batteries from the sun if the grid is down. In a grid outage you can’t use the grid to absorb excess solar when the batteries are full. So when your battery is full you must reduce the amount of solar produced to balance with your home’s demand. But AC coupling makes it hard or impossible to tell the solar inverter to throttle its output. It can be done with managed AC coupling, but you need a specially designed, compatible inverter for that.
Off grid capability
Most folks who ask for ‘full home backup’ expect that, in a prolonged grid outage, their batteries will recharge from the sun to extend the time they can operate ‘off grid’. A retrofitted AC coupled ‘home backup’ system usually can’t manage this. If your batteries go flat, you are out of luck until the grid is restored, even if the sun is beating down.
To safely charge the batteries without a grid connection the AC powerwall will need a special, compatible solar inverter (which does not yet exist). The only alternative is to use a really coarse form of control called “bang bang control” that switches your inverter on and off instead of throttling it. This is not good for the solar inverter and may void its warranty, so I can’t see this happening either.
In other words don’t expect to run fully off grid through extended blackouts with an AC Powerwall."

mark.willing | March 10, 2017

So,...If I am interpreting this information correctly,...the Powerwall 2 AC in an AC-coupled, grid-tied configuration would allow one to use the available battery power, until it is drained, but during a grid outage would not allow for recharging from the PV panels. In other words, once the battery has been drained, one would still need a home standby generator until grid power is restored.

What wasn't discussed, and would need some clarification, could one configure an auto-start standby generator to recharge the Powerwall AC during a grid outage? That would solve the problem, but I do not know if the Powerwall 2 AC inverter is capable of that.

The Powerwall DC version with the appropriate inverter would be needed if one wished to allow solar charging during a grid outage, as well as, allow for supplemental charging from a generator.

Ross1 | March 10, 2017

It cant be too hard Mark, if Tesla can offer AUS govts statewide power in 100 days, to fill in from outages?
See my other thread for links

bj | March 10, 2017

@mark.willing - that makes it a bit clearer. So you can run the battery down if the grid goes off? But while you are doing that, the solar is effectively disconnected and not topping the battery up?

"In a grid outage you can’t use the grid to absorb excess solar when the batteries are full" - yes that is obvious. What I didn't quite get (and maybe still don't) was why you couldn't top the battery up (if it's not full) from solar IF the grid is also down at the same time. It seems you are saying the challenge is to manage input vs output so that you don't kill anything.

So what if you had two batteries that are alternated if the grid goes down? You can run one of the batteries until flat (no power in, only power out to the house), while the other one is not supplying the house but is being solar charged (no power out, only power in). Then when the first battery is on the verge of depletion, the system switches over the functions of the two batteries. So at no stage is any one battery having both power in AND power out at the same time. Would that work?

Earl and Nagin ... | March 10, 2017

The Solar Optimum salesman at a recent Tesla LA club meeting at the Burbank Service Center said that the AC system goes right between your main service panel disconnect and your power company meter. It WILL work as power backup if the grid goes down. It WILL charge up every day from solar if the grid is down and provide power at night. It has built-in protections to ensure that it won't back-feed the grid if the grid is down. You can set it to charge it when you want from your solar and prevent it from feeding the grid until you've used it up in the evening if you want to avoid peak TOU rates.
I can't be sure he wasn't lying but this is how he explained the AC system.

Mike83 | March 10, 2017

An app to control the home would be nice especially when on vacation. Google home already has device controls. This is something we want to do when we build a Tesla solar roof home in the future.

Josephineodonnell1 | March 11, 2017

I live in U and ordered a Powerwall 2 in November. Heard nothing from Tesla despite numerous messages left to enquire 'when' it would be available. I did get an email a little while ago from Holland which said it would be delivered to me in March - mmm.... I'm very disappointed that the most sensible answer to storing electricity is not available to us.

venomous04 | March 14, 2017

Got a voicemail today.

"Hi this is _⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_⁠_ calling from Tesla calling with some great news we are ready for the next step towards completing your Tesla powerwall proposal when you have a few moments please give our service partner solar city a call at 669-XXX-XXXX to review your proposals next step thank you and have a great day…"

I ordered mine back in November and was starting to get anxious/angry over their lack of updates. Technician doing first site visit tomorrow to my home so hopefully I can update everyone here on what to expect.

psusi | March 17, 2017

It can't operate without mains? Well, I'm out then. Back to looking at the Xantrex XW hybrid inverter/charger and a bank of raw batteries.

mark.willing | March 17, 2017
Earl and Nagin ... | March 18, 2017

I got the same call as @venomous04. I got a simultaneous VM from Solar City about scheduling an evaluation visit.
When I called Solar City back to schedule, it was the operator's first PowerWall call. She had to ask for help from a supervisor but did a great job covering the questions and issues she was supposed to bring up.

sean | March 21, 2017

We have also finally been scheduled for a technician visit (Thursday).

This is initially a standalone (no solar) installation, but I have the same concerns voiced above as we need the ability to charge from a generator or solar source for long outages or future grid-independence.

I will post back here after talking with the technician.

RGH | March 21, 2017

venomus.... solar city? the kiss of death in my opinion. beware.

shawnsonnentag | March 22, 2017

I was scheduled for a site visit by solar city as well. Tesla called last Friday.

Dcp9142 | March 22, 2017

Got a technician visit, finally. He says there is quite a backlog. They watched a video to learn what they need to measure and take pictures of. Next step is engineering design. I was third powerwall customer he has visited.

Dcp9142 | March 22, 2017

Got a technician visit, finally. He says there is quite a backlog. They watched a video to learn what they need to measure and take pictures of. Next step is engineering design. I was third powerwall customer he has visited.

jcampos | March 23, 2017

Dear Sirs, we are a technology company focused on the industrial environment and we are interested in being able to count on your product to project it as a solution to the current situation in our country - PERU.
We are looking forward to your comments.
Sincerely,
Jorge Campos.
www.iddperu.com
jcampos@iddperu.com

jcampos | March 23, 2017

After reading all the comments of the Blog, it seems that there is a serious problem of communication between the brand and the user, I hope to have a response soon, since many requests have been made to bring the brand and the product to Peru. And we have had no answer; Just wait and be able to count on a good service and technical assistance after sale.

sean | March 23, 2017

>> it seems that there is a serious problem of communication between the brand and the user <<

Very much so. If Tesla had someone in Energy Product Customer Relations even fractionally as good as Elon is at promotion... my SMB customers wouldn't be looking into alternate solutions :(.

Our home visit (survey) was today and the surveyor had almost no technical knowledge of the product. I can't blame him. They're all new at this. Problem is, my fairly basic technical questions to the available Tesla phone and email channels have also been met with silence.

If you are a municipal utility or home solar customer, things look pretty good now that Powerwalls are actually rolling out. If you are a business user with serious pre-sales questions, however... good luck. You are better off calling other solar/inverter suppliers and getting whatever battery solution they recommend.

mark.manner | March 24, 2017

Hi, I reserved one for Nashville TN. We will see when it filters to the east side.

spmeister | March 28, 2017

Got my call today, initial visit is Thursday. I already have a solar PV system. Plan right now is to use the first PowerWall as standby power for my well pump, heater, and refrigerator circuits. Later I might add on more for the rest of the house.

mark.willing | March 29, 2017

I finally got through to Tesla on Monday, 3/27,...the sales line has been disconnected. I am in Grand Rapids, Michigan,...outside of the Solar City service area. The best estimate I could get for my call from Tesla would be "the end of April". When I asked about installers, they mentioned an electrician in Kalamazoo, and an EV service center in Dayton, Ohio,...and here's the best part,...Tesla hasn't even asked them yet IF they would be willing to do the installs. Keep in mind, there are several large solar energy installers in Michigan that do battery storage systems, including the company that did my solar panel install,...no mention of any of them. From conversations with solar installers in Michigan, it would suggest there are several folks interested in the Powerwall in Michigan. I guess I am concerned that even if I receive my call in April, there might not be an installer that would be available in any kind of timely manner. Electrician's are typically very busy folks,...and to make a special trip outside their usual service area to install my Powerwalls? We shall see.

Earl and Nagin ... | March 29, 2017

Solar City came out to survey my house for a PowerWall yesterday. The technician knew very little about the PowerWall but gave me a hotline number to call for info. He said he was to take a lot of photos to send back to their technical team who would design a system based on them. He then took many pictures of our service panel, all subpanels and possible locations on the side of the house for PowerWall. The PowerWall Hotline tech was fairly knowledgeable about technical details of the PowerWall. She also promised to check in on some questions I had about warranty (what kind of capacity is defined as normal at the 10 year point) and whether the batteries have the same fire suppression gel to prevent cascading fires if a single cell ignites. She also sent me a spec sheet for the PowerWell.
The Hotline number is (725)333-7731

janendan | April 2, 2017
Frenchy | April 2, 2017

@janendan

Eventually we won't but that will follow suit with a plethora of other technologies. One of the issues of using that method is that the graphene made is of low quality. That technology scaled for the masses, with improved quality, is still likely 5-10 years away.

mark.willing | April 26, 2017

@janendan,..."Do we need Powerwalls?" If one is speaking of utility and commercial-level energy storage,...then the answer is NO. There are other methods of larger scale energy storage such as flywheel and molten salt that are available right now. For residential use,...right now, 2017,...lithium-ion batteries are the way to go. Keep in mind, there are other technologies that will be available, as Frenchy said, "...likely 5-10 years away."

mark.willing | April 26, 2017

Update on the Powerwall installation. I spoke with a Tesla representative on April 25th. This is the third call I have made over the past few months, but they have been consistent with the end of April to middle of May timeline. So, hopefully I will receive my call within the next few weeks.

So, it seems that some of our local solar energy/battery back-up specialist are still waiting for their call that would accept them as a certified Tesla Powerwall installer. The team that did the solar PV system on my home contacted me today saying that they called Tesla,...and Tesla told them that they should receive their call within the next few weeks. Apparently, there is/was quite a bit of back log.

As such, I am encouraged that I will be able to have my solar specialist perform my Powerwall installation within the next 4-6 weeks. For those of you outside the Solar City service area,...you folks may be in a similar situation with a similar timeline.

janendan | April 30, 2017

How do you folks plan to balance the energy needs of the home and the car on the 14kwh powerwall? Do you line up 5 powerwalls in the garage for the car overnight charge?

mark.willing | April 30, 2017

@janendan: "How do you folks plan to balance the energy needs of the home and the car on the 14kwh powerwall? Do you line up 5 powerwalls in the garage for the car overnight charge?"

This will vary from household to household. One, the 14kwh Powerwall really has only 13.5 of usable power,...long discussion. Two, what are you using the Powerwall for? Three, how do you plan on charging the Powerwall? Four, how much charging of the car are you planning on doing per night? Five, how much power does your house use in a typical night? Six, if you are wanting to use it for back-up power during grid outages, how much reserve power do you need to get you through 24, 48, 72hrs? Plenty of variables.

Take my situation for example. My home uses between 14-16 kWh per day. My panels can generate over 50kWh per day on a sunny day,...but may be as low as 5kWh on a cloudy winter day. My home uses roughly 10kWh once the sun goes down, but only about 5kWh when the sun is up. One 13.5kWh Powerwall, fully charged, would discharge down to around 25%,...that's assuming a full charge,...I can't depend upon that in my local climate. So, what about 2 Powerwalls,...that brings me up to 27kWh, fully charged. If I use 10 of that during the night, then it would discharge down to 63%,...that give me some reserve, should the power go out. But it also gives me some reserve should I not be able to achieve a full charge from my solar panels the day before. Now,...throw in an electric car. Roughly 9-10 months out of the year, I can realistically keep reserve in my Powerwalls. So, lets say you have a 60kW battery on your EV. Most people are only going to use maybe 10-20kW on the daily commute back and forth to work,...so, that's all you are going to need to achieve a full charge on your car by the morning.

Every situation is different, so do the math, or consult an expert in this area. Most folks are not going to need any more than 2 Powerwalls,...even with an EV. But,...maybe you have a larger home with higher energy needs,...maybe your commute is longer,...maybe you have 2 EVs in the garage.

Good luck : )

Earl and Nagin ... | April 30, 2017

@janendan,
It isn't as difficult as you seem to be making it. First of all, you don't need 5 Powerwalls to charge your car unless you expect to charge with 70 kWhr every day. That would be over 200 miles of driving per day.
Next, you only would need to use Powerwalls to charge your Tesla if you can only charge at night. If you have virtuous intent to ensure that your car gets charged from your solar and you aren't driving your car all day long, then you simply need charging where your car is during the day and excess solar production at your home to pump as much electricity into the grid during the day as you're putting into your Tesla. It would be a lot cheaper to install a charger at most workplaces than to buy a Powerwall for your house.
I recommend that you size your Powerwalls for the amount of electricity that you must consume when the sun isn't shining such as evening air conditioning and appliance usage.
Or, more practically, you would size your Powerwalls to handle your usage during peak time of use electricity pricing. You could then use the excess grid power available at night to charge your car. Remember that much of the wind power in the US is generated with strong night time winds, providing a lot of renewable energy at night.

ak1allen | April 30, 2017

Off grid solar has been around for a long time. Don't need a Powerwall if you are interested in pursuing off grid battery storage. I installed my Xantrex system in 2005. Works swimmingly and allows middle finger response to the utility, when appropriate. You size your batteries such that one never goes below 50% SOC and good old lead acids last 20-25 years. That said, I cannot help but like the cool factor of the Powerwall. Its really too bad the rollout has been so slow because it does capture the imagination.

nle415 | May 16, 2017

Getting mine installed June 7! Could be sooner but that was the first weekday I had available to be at home all day.

mark.willing | May 23, 2017

Getting frustrated and angry with Tesla.

About once a month I give them a call, talk to a rep, get a little information regarding my Powerwall 2 installation timeline. Every time it has been April or May,...I was told I was high up on their list due to my order date,...I was told they have installer on their list for Michigan.

Today,...no installers in Michigan,...I was told to basically wait indefinitely or I could get my deposits back.

Tesla,...if you don't have installers,...stop production and put your money and energy into getting your backlog of prospective installers trained. As the saying goes,..."You've got your cart before the horse." Your customers and prospective installers are not happy.

Tesla-David | May 24, 2017

@mark.willing. I share your frustration. I have been calling every two weeks for past two months, but have not received any positive feedback on when I might be contacted to start my two-Powerwall-2 installations. Moreover I have discussed with two local solar-installers, one of which did my solar installation in 2012, and both are seeking to get the training to be Powerwall02 installers. To date, Tesla has not provided them with a training schedule to enable that to happen. Very frustrating, and Tesla is definitely not on top of this and is doing a very poor job of customer service. I live in Edmonds, WA and at this point I have no clue on when Powerwall-2 installations will begin in the northwest.

N7RZBModel3 | May 24, 2017

@Tesla-David. I join you. I live in Bellevue, WA, my solar installer was Artisan Electric. Last time I talked to them they also had not heard from Tesla on training to be Powerwall installers. Turned the AC on twice this week (80 degrees in Seattle area in May!), and had to use PSE electrons, not my excess produced during the days. I wonder if anyone with Tesla reads these forums. Nothing like satisfied owners to push their products. Or vice versa.

mark.willing | May 24, 2017

I had an opportunity to speak with a few solar energy experts here in Michigan. News: The SolarEdge - Tesla relationship has broken down. SolarEdge inverters with the addition of the StorEdge module was and is compatible with the Powerwall 1. However, from what I understand, the SolarEdge StorEdge system is not compatible with the Powerwall 2 in terms of using it as the primary charge controller. You have to connect the AC Powerwall 2 to the service box and let the Powerwall inverter and controller do its thing independently. LG Chem and SolarEdge are working together now,...however, the RESU10H battery is about 9.5kW,...and currently you are limited to a single battery. LG Chem is working on approval for 2 battery approval,...which still limits it to 19kW max,...and is about 30% more expensive than a comparable Powerwall system. http://www.ecodirect.com/LG-Chem-RESU-10H-SEG-9-8-kWh-Lithium-Ion-Batter...

The AC Powerwall with the appropriate gateway WILL allow the PV system to continue to operate in a closed loop with the battery(s) during grid "downtime". YES! Most people will require a 200A service box,...which means I will need to upgrade from a 150A box in my home. $$$ https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/powerwall-welco...

My solar installer has applied twice to become an installer for Tesla. Once early on in January, and again in March,...no communication from Tesla, so far. When they called Tesla last month, all they said was that there was a backlog,...confirmed with my communication yesterday.

Furthermore, from the rumblings within the industry,...Tesla/Solar City is contracting with local installers outside their service area, however, the service rates they are providing are well below industry standards in terms of pay for the installers. My installer basically said that they are only making the attempt at becoming a certified installer in order to provide service to their existing customers who want the Powerwalls,...but they will literally be loosing money on these installs because Tesla/Solar City is going on the cheap. Most installers here in Michigan make their money on the big jobs, utility and commercial installations,...and when money talks,...residential installations may get put on the back burner, especially if they are looking to break even or loose money with Tesla/Solar City. So far, those are the concerns with some installers in Michigan.

PJDoty | May 27, 2017

We had our Powerwall 2 installed last weekend, and it works great!
A team of 6 installers spent the better part of one full day on installation. Training/guide person oversaw the process. Initially, I wasn't sure about the new My Tesla phone app which allows me to monitor real-time use in the home, generation from our PV panels, use from the grid, and charge/discharge of the Powerwall 2 unit. But I love it. Future firmware updates might even allow me to tweak the timing for putting back on the grid, and anticipating when I need extra juice for charging our Model S.
My biggest concern was to be able to run my home well pump for water, and to keep a few critical circuits running in the event of a grid power outage, but now it seems that Powerwall 2 will run our entire house...perhaps 48 hours...we'll see. Also ,Powerwall 2 is capable of accepting a charge from our PV array, while at the same time giving power for the home!
Be patient. This is an amazing product worth the wait.
Paul

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