Sounds like the snowball is starting to roll a bit more quickly ..... Hopefully their next models will be a bit more appealing than the Bolt.
What bothers me is they say that they will use money from selling SUV's and pickups to finance it. It seems they still need to sell a lot of ICE cars so they could produce EV's. It needs to be clear to everyone that the goal is NOT to sell more EV's. The goal is not to sell any ICE vehicles.
I'm disappointed that GM believes the Hydrogen car is a necessary part of a zero-emission future.
That's OUR goal, but GM's (General Murderer's) goal is to sell more ICE's by saying they're just trying to raise money (by selling the biggest, most obnoxious, most polluting vehicles they manufacture) to finance the manufacturing of EV's.
Sneaky bastards aren't they?!
Hydrogen and "EVs lose money" are all stale plays in the GM whiner playbook left from the 1990's. Some things never change.
I'll believe it when I see it.
This is stuff we've actually seen from GM:http://evnut.com/ev1_crushed.htm
Yes, well, there's much to be disappointed with regarding GM (the EV1; Saying they needed a "bailout" even though they could've easily remained liquid by temporarily shuttering some of their overseas manufacturing plants/distributorships; Deliberately manufacturing ignition switches designed to shut off and covering that fact up for over a period of some 10 years by blaming it on the consumer/attempting to write it off as "user error"), isn't there?
"What bothers me is they say that they will use money from selling SUV's and pickups to finance it."
Well, where else would they get the money? Developing new cars costs billions. If they decide to finance EV development entirely from private donations, would you be willing to donate anything?
I'm skeptical, though. The article says that GM will release "two new electric models next year". If they're being released next year, they must be almost complete, and yet they've managed to avoid the notice of the entire automotive press world...
"GM's (General Murderer's) goal is to sell more ICE's by saying they're just trying to raise money..."
Well, except they never actually said that. But whatever...
Of course they're not going to come out and SAY that, but that is EXACTLY what their announcement implies as it's clear that they're trying to incentivize people to action to encourage the sell of their heavy vehicle lineup by saying it's for the purpose of raising funds to manufacture EV's.
They're appealing to the general public-at-large's sense of compassion by saying that they want to make better vehicles, but they're hampered by the need to move more inventory to raise the money to do so, yet their reported profits totaled some $39.4 Billion (like a million/$1 million, but with 3 more decimal places).
"GM Reports Net Revenue of $37 Billion and Income of $2.4 Billion from Continuing Operations"
It's really just a matter of reading between the lines.
P.S. And that's not even accounting for the ICE vehicle inventory they're still producing DAILY when all that they need only do is shift operations from ICE production over to EV manufacturing...No additional funds required!
I think the almost half million Tesla model 3 reservations was a real wakeup call for these other manufacturers.
Again, let's not strike up the band and shoot confetti in the air. Re-read what GM said. They didn't say these EVs will be sold here or in Europe. It has already been reported that "GM" sells a $6,000 EV in China. I say "GM" because you know full well it is a. Local Chinese company that actually makes the car and just brand it as a Chevy but GM will certainly count it as one of their EVs. Just like the German companies spouting off about having "X" number of electrics on the road by whatever date, the devil is in the details. Germans consider hybrids as electrics. So, read between the lines with everything GM says about this sudden "we have seen the light" moment.
"...devil is in the details."
+1 SO. That, along with countries banning ICE and CA talking about banning ICE.
They all know it's going to happen. (end of ICE.) The question was never if - it was when. Now several European carmakers have made similar announcements. So they have to bet on whether those others are making a mistake, or not. Or if they're timing it wrong, or not. Looks like they don't want to be left behind, and they know how long this is going to take. So one by one it's a gathering snowball rolling down a hill.
The point is regardless of the EV situation GM still wants to sell ICE vehicles and probably still more the better for them. Fine if it's a business decision but don't make it sound like It's doing itfor the cause. Like @just an allusion said it's very sneaky. Until when it says ICE production will be reduced since they are being replaced by its EV's I will never take it serious.
The ICE is a dead technology and everyone knows it now.......Where is my flip phone?
Tesla R&D 2010-2016 less than $3 billion total.
GM stock buyback last 2? years = $16 billion.
Quantifying fatalities. The faulty ignitions have been linked (by GM itself) to 124 deaths.
How many others?
Anyone gone to jail yet? No, let them do stock buybacks and push up bonuses.
Just turn off ice factories and switch? Thats super naive.
It takes years to design test and ramp up.
DTsea That's the reason why it will not work. More importantly is everyone in the company who has been designing, producing or selling ICE cars most of their life and it's the only thing they know how to do will need to fast switch to something they are not familiar with. How is that going to happen? Have you ever worked in a large corporation and not understand there will be resistance on all levels regardless what CEO says in public.
I spent an evening the other night with one of GMs engineering directors. They are moving out aggressively hiring young people at top schools with focus on simulation, software, and electrics. A very large percentage of their 38000 engineers are recent hires.
How about instead of jumping to cynicism we look for signs of hope?
hope gets crushed (EV1). THAT's the problem. Kicking and screaming is what GM does best.
DTsea, all of those things you listed focuses could apply to an ICE car.
Not to mention, where are they going to get all the batteries they need if they switched over wholesale right now? They'd need their own giga-factories of course, of which, they have none!
GM says "all electric" future is their plan
Yada yada yada.
"Just turn off ice factories and switch?
First off, no one has said anything about 'turning off ICE factories'...What was actually said is that it would be relatively easy enough for them to >CONVERT< to EV power as all they'd need do is install electric motors in place of IC engines and battery packs in place of fuel tanks, you know, just like all of those ICE-to-EV conversion companies do and have been doing for several years now all over the place, on all types of vehicles.
"Thats super naive."
"Super naive" huh?
If a guy working out of his garage can do it with access to limited resources, then a global, corporate conglomerate like GM, Fiat Chrysler or Ford, with all of the resources they have at their disposal sure as hell can!
To think otherwise is naive!
"It takes years to design test and ramp up."
Actually, the likes of GM and Chrysler and even Ford, already have!
GM has (well, they HAD) the EV1, Ford has/had a Ranger, and Chrysler had a full model lineup consisting of everything from a sporty roadster/coupé to a jeep, to mini van, which you can read all about here:
Ergo, I feel it's quite safe to say that the so-called "Big 3" have ALREADY 'designed and tested' ICE to EV conversion and have even produced several EV models, now they need only adopt EV as their primary power platform and begin producing what they already have, again, and stick with it this time.
So who's being NAIVE now...?!
And you're just as naive as DTsea!
They could always contract with an battery manufacturer, you know, like Tesla did...
There's Energizer, Duracell, and several other ones or, as you've suggested, they could always do something on their own.
You petrol heads REALLY need to stop...it's getting pretty PATHETIC.
I think these limits to ban new ICE cars have zero importance. WIthin 10 years, just about every ICE car produced will be considered dinosaurs in the industry. People will be ridiculed for owning/buying a noisy, low-performance, pollution generating, high-maintenance, expensive to fuel ICE car. Sure a few low IQ people will be suckered into buying the few remaining ICE lemons that are sitting on some dealer lot, but the vast majority of new car owners will not even consider an ICE car in 10 years when there will be many better EV choices at every price and category.
As i said, gm is in mass hiring mode for the engineering domains that drive electric and nlt hiring for ICE engines.
Naive? Well, 33 years as an engineer and executive in a heavy manufacturing business tellse that you dont just convert a factory. The vehicles have to be redeaigned and reintegrated. That takes 3 to 5 years.
Battery supply will certainly be an issue. I am not a GM fan, but i bet they know that EVs require batteries.
DTsea GM's problem is not lack of new hires. Its problem is people like the engineering director you know who likely is pretty clueless of state of art technology. That comes with the territory for people with decades of "industry experiences" and is unavoidable. We all have been around long enough to know that is true. That is one reason brightest young minds would always choose to go to companies like Tesla or Google instead of companies like GM because they will always be taking orders from old timers who speak a totally different language and unwilling to give up the status quo.
Hiring some new graduates thinking that could make a difference is exactly what I meant half ass'd effort. Ask your friend how willing he is to give up his job or responsibility if he honestly believe that will help the company's future.
I dont know what your engineering experience is.... but mine is that a radical shift in skills you hire is step 1 in changing focus.
To me it is reason for optimism.
All Automotive companies that survive, will eventually be all electric. The question is will they realize that soon enough?
DTsea My experiences are all in the tech industry although mostly at maturing companies. From my vantage point it's most efficient to let old companies to gradually fade away or die off with old products and let new companies to take care of the new technology. You know what? That's pretty much what has been happening all the time too.
"Naive? Well, 33 years as an engineer and executive in a heavy manufacturing business tellse that you dont just convert a factory. The vehicles have to be redeaigned and reintegrated. That takes 3 to 5 years"
As I've mentioned before, your reply ignores BOTH the fact that numerous individuals have been converting standard, every day ICE's to EV's just about every other day in their garages or conversion shops around the nation and world without much of any modification other than removing the ICE and fuel tank(s) and installing batteries and a motor in their place, AND that all of the so-called "Big 3" auto manufacturers have each already manufactured several EV's, evidence that they've ALREADY the infrastructure/resources/facilities to manufacture EV's.
Stop being naive mister '33 yr. heavy manufacturing engineer', or encouraging it, as the FACTS discount every claim you've made to the contrary!
KP nailed it. ICE will see it's demise in time. Hopefully sooner than later. So long as tech develops that can make things more affordable, and the infrastructure continues to expand, ICE doesn't stand a chance. I am glad to see that this will happen in my lifetime.
Nobody is going to mass produce hobby cars jaa.
"Nobody is going to mass produce hobby cars jaa."
True. How many of those cars people built in their garages were sold?
Probably cant be homologated.
So GM announces they will make EV...people here condemn them. If they announced no EV, people here would condemn them. It seems like they can't win here no matter what they do. I bought some GM stock about 6 months ago...I really like them!
Good for you @bucfan.
Yes, more EVs is better, even from GM.
Let’s see what they come up with.
@NKYTA - First one out with a reasonably priced pick-up wins!
@bucfan, I’ve been driving the best EV for 4.7 years, and I got in TSLA at the GM stock price before then.
Pretty sure I’m “winning”.
I’m sure you meant, “first one out with a reasonably priced BEV pickup wins”?
Wonder how the $7500 rebate works with GM. Does each division like Chevy ,Cadillac,Buick etc et to produce 200000 cars before rebates expire or is it for GM in total? Same think with Ford and Lincoln.
I can see people cancelling Tesla orders and going with other brands if they can get a rebate after Tesla is ineligible. Also GM has more resources so they should be able to make better cars than Tesla in a few years. Only advantage to Tesla would be the superchargers. Just hope Tesla doesnt become obsolete like IBM cmputers, netscape navigator, and AOL.
Has GM ever made a good car since you and I started buying cars?
@bucfan11 No one condemns GM for making EV. We are just saying it's not really serious about it even it trying to make is sound like it is. GM's plan is still to make millions of high margin ICE pickups and SUV's every year for as long as it could.
200000 is GM not badges like Chevy.
I almost bought a new Chevy Chevette diesel in 1981.If I could have lived with that anything they made wpuld have been an improvent.The new Corvette and Buick seem to be able to compete will other more expensive cars from Europe. I just wont buy a car from a company that took a government bailout.
Of course GM will make their high-profit vehicles for as long as they're...high profit. Any company would. IMO, most people buying EV now are environmentalists and geeks. When a pickup with higher power, more torque and similarly priced to an ICE comes out the rest of the population will join environmentalists and geeks.
Bucfan11 and most people who buy GM stock are morons and idiots.....
Don't generalize why/who buys EVs.
The future belongs to our youth. If you want to know where it is headed, ask them. Most of our young still believe what their parents are telling them. Kinda reminiscent of the demise of the 'Horse & Buggy' period.
Build it and they will come, doesn't always work. You can starve, waiting for the masses to come.
The EV future, in most cases, still rests on 'Selling the Idea'. Our youth aren't interested in solar versus nuclear or hydrogen for that fact. The number one statement I get thrown at me concerning my Tesla is, "it still runs on electricity made from fossil fuels".
Also, when it comes to change, people resist because in some way, they fear the loss of their livelihood.
Fear of losing your job makes you a poor worker. If what you say is true they are going to be some hard times ahead for those who fear change.