If you're rich that is. Screw the rest.
Edit: I updated the title. I guess people did not know what that meant in the original form.
Has the fat lady sang yet? I don't think so.
It will take a few years for the negative effects to take hold. By then the democrats will be back in power but blamed for the downfall. And America will repeat the cycle yet again.
@SO Regretfully, you're exactly correct. I am 73 yo. and have seen this over and over. Repugnants get into power, usually based on promised tax cuts. Economy gets into trouble due to those cuts. Dems get back in control and get things almost straight, by re-enacting necessary taxes and the cycle starts over.
What happened to all the wailing about the deficit?
Deficits are bad for:
1. The poor
2. Brown presidents
@SamO "Deficits are bad for...2. Brown presidents"
Deficits are bad when your party is not in control of either Congress or the White House. Look what GW Bush/Cheney did to the only budget surplus in the last century. He gave away the surplus, deregulated as many industries as possible, and presided over an epic economic collapse.
At least they gave Obama 8 years to partially right the economic ship. The Dow and S & P 500 grew 250% during his time in office. All those gloating Republicans crowing about the Dow surge to 24,000 need to take a look at percentage increase. The Dow will need to hit 45,000 before they can claim a 250% growth.
If GDP growth goes to 4% under Trump, don't you think that might be just a tad bit better than Obama's 2%?
@Economist-Mitch. Where do you get your 4% growth from ??? The Notrickszone???
And don't forget the 2 wars bush/cheney plunged us into. which we are still fighting, spilling blood and wasting our gold.
C_Z "What happened to all the wailing about the deficit?"
In a few years those same Republicans will rediscover that deficit is a bad thing. They will then use that as an excuse to cut services, social security and medicare. They could even raise taxes for everyone except those they gave to corporations because you know that will hurt jobs, lol. This whole thing is just a clever way to pay their corporate donors and let all of us to foot the bill.
If GDP goes to 6% then everyone gets a pony.
Boom and then bust. We have learned nothing.
MitchP85D Actually I don't think 4% is better than 2% -- IF -- it is unsustainable. A sustained 2% is better for the long term stability of the economy and the country. It makes planning for the future a lot easier. It means your savings can be depended upon. A growth rate of 4% is inherently unsustainable as infrastructure cannot keep up with it. Money supply can't keep up either. This means that inflation is inevitable thus savings lose. Those that are close to retirement, who have worked all their lives and saved for a comfortable retirement will in just a few years find that their savings is being eaten up by basic living. Remember that you shouldn't be all in to the stock market while you are retired.
My question is how do you expect a 4% increase each year in the economy into the future? The general population isn't growing at that rate. Do you expect consumption to increase by 4% each year? Do you expect the current population to increase spending by 4% each year? There has to be some driver to allow for a growth of that level year after year. I don't see how that can happen. At 4% the economy of the US would have to double in what 15 - 20 years? that means twice as many trucks, roads, planes, houses. How do you expect this to happen? Where do the raw materials come from?
I don't see it being sustainable.
I don’t usually comment on political threads, but before we start throwing mud a Republicans about taking credit for the economy when it was the proceeding Democratic President that established the building blocks, that does both ways. It is not just Republicans that take credit or misconstru numbers to make it sound like they did something great.
Obama counted illegals being stopped at the border as counting towards the tally of those being deported on his watch. One can’t be kicked out of a store that you never made it into in the first place.
As joemar10 said, the economy goes in waves and who ever is the sitting President gets praise or blame.
Thank you Bryan Whitton
I remember for years economists were saying 2%~2.5% GDP growth is the best we can and should shoot for. bryan.whitton's explanation is the clearest one of the reason why that I've heard.
Dorothy . . . we're back in Kansas.
About cyclical economy.
Cyclicality is perhaps to be expected in free economies. Pendulums swing and Slinkies bounce.
Consider that tax rates for the wealthiest were at significant lows during the 2008 super-recession. The Bush tax cuts were in effect. So, QED, low tax rates for wealthy payers do not ward off significant economic pain visited mostly on the most vulnerable.
However, there are tools for dealing with pain. Stimulus and certain tax cuts aimed at getting money into circulation.
These 2017 tax cuts and the near-unanimous predictions of huge deficits leave little (if any) room for economic medicine when the time comes.
Bless their hearts.
And where are those deficit hawks now?
Paul Ryan, where art thou? :-)
These people could not do health, neither can they do wealth, it seems. MAGA, indeed.
Hey Captain Planet, you asked where? Just look at the data!
"US GDP Growth Rate Revised Up To 3.5% In Q3. The US economy advanced an annualized 3.5 percent on quarter in the three months to September of 2016, up from 1.4 percent growth in the previous period and better than a 3.2 percent expansion in the second estimate."
And that is only from cutting regulation. Combine the tax cuts with that, and 4% GDP growth seems like it can easily be achieved!
I know. Sanctimonious Socialist Turds don't like to look at data!
And here is 2017.
Here is another source.
Here is Reuters:
Here is CNBC:
The data is there.
People are talking about sustained growth.
The Kick-Ass Gal strikes again!
@lilbean. We need to concede that ignorance is not confined to Trump supporters. Hillary has some as well
@Welfare_Mitch. The rise in the stock market is just a continuation of what Obama started. Wall Street certainly loves the new tax plan and for someone like me it is great so I can quickly pad my retirement. But most economist will tell you that it is bad for most particularly those who are not significantly invested in the stock markethttp://cnnmon.ie/2jaSmDn
Well... this will be a costly change for me because decades of planning is going out the window.. Attorney fees galore!
Hey Not-So Prime Time, want to know why the 2008 super-recession occurred? Ron Paul predicted this back in 2001!!!! Have a look, and listen at 2:45.
The recession actually began in 2007 if my memory serves me correctly. But the housing collapse occurred shortly after that, and it brought everything else down with it! Ron Paul was right. Our monetary policy brought about the bursting housing bubble.
It is a shame that only 10% of Americans listened to this guy! I am honored to be in that 10%!
@welfare_Mitch. Now remind who was President from 2001-2008??
Coffee meets computer.
Captain Planet, Bill Clinton handed the Internet Bubble that burst to George W Bush. Bush handed the Housing Bubble that burst to Obama. Obama handed 20 trillion dollars of debt to Trump. Now, we will all have to hold our breath what happens next! Trump has 3 more years. If he makes America Great again, he will be re-elected. If he fails, he will get kicked out by the voters.
During what dates was "America Great"? It sounds like an undefined target that is left to every Republican's imagination.
"Trump has 3 more years", more coffee meets computer.
No. He has at most 3 more years.
America was great from the time WW2 ended until the end of the 60s. In the 70s we started buying more things from Japan and Nixon started trade deals with China that would eventually hurt us.Granted we had to hide under our desks because we were afraid Russia would nuke us but we didnt have the Iranians and oil embargo problems that started in the 70s and the crazy inflation of the 80s. Deregulation screwed up the airlines, phone companies and banks and other companies in the 90s and by the 2000s most jobs had started going overseas and most call centers were in India and all the illegals started coming to Califoria to have anchor babies so they could become citizens and get welfare. Now we have to press 1 foe English. Give me a break! Morals went to hell and people could change their sex and have kids from test tubes and get married if they were the same sex and have abortions. I know most people on this forum are liberals and wont agree with my last statement but I feel like America has gone to hell in a handbasket over the last 20 years.
MitchP85D Jut curious, who is this captain Planet you keep referring to?
@Tesla2018 Hatred expressed in your post negated any valid points in there. Just that you know it.
Tesla2018 Actually as I recall we started buying form Japan in the late 50's and by the 70's they were producing better goods than werebeing built in the USA and for a lot less. As to the rest of your comments some of it I agree with, some I don't.
As far as illegals coming to the USA. I had a good worker working for me a few years ago. Easy going, always on time, made sure he knew what he was doing and asked questions if he wasn't sure. Really an excellent employee. One day I was given some information that he wasn't a legal citizen. When I queried him on it he admitted that his SS # wasn't his and that he wasn't here legally. I know he had been in the public school system since elementary school so I asked him how he got here. His parents had brought him as a toddler and he had grown up here.
I did the only thing I could I fired him as ethically it was all I could do. However, I had already done my research and contacted a lawyer that specialized in immigration issues and gave him her contact info. I told him if he got legal I would hire him back in an heartbeat.
Long story short 3 months later he was on the road to becoming a citizen. He was legally capable of working and he had a legal SS #.
All of this was to talk to you about the real cause illegal immigrants. Unethical business men that look at illegals for cheap labor and don't care about the law of the land. If they couldn't find work they couldn't afford to live here. If business owners had ethics and cared more about the law than their profit the problem would be solved.
My parents told me that the future looked so grim at that time that they almost made the choice to not have children.
Those who consider the 1960s the good old days are white males who had an advantage in life good old days. Over the past half century females and other races have become empowered. It is a strong cultural for some white men to see women and other races becoming more capable and successful in the workplace and society in general. Previously suppressed nations are becoming more successful. It is only natural that we lose some of the lower skilled jobs to other nations. Many of these jobs are also being list to automation. It is foolish to try protect those old archaic jobs. That is what Trump is trying to do. It is all about keeping those low skilled jobs for white males with limited skills. The correct answer is to embrace globalization, to create 21 st century jobs and provide appropriate skills and training to those who have lost old world jobs. I strongly believe in capitalism. But there needs to be regulation to control polluting industries and encourage companies to embrace alternative rnegies and embrace futuristic jobs. This is where science should lead the way. Unfortunately our president has declared war on science and facts
bryan.whitton, Captain Planet is SCCRENDO. We have various nicknames that we use for each other. We have been debating human caused global warming for about 3 years now. My home got flooded during Harvey, and our debate has sidetracked to flood insurance. I have been paying my flood insurance premium for 10 years. When my home flooded, I filed a claim to repair my home. For some goofy, dumbass reason, this pisses off Captain Planet and others in the Tesla Forum. You see, they were hoping I was going to suffer great economic harm from my flooded home because I haven't jumped on board the global warming bandwagon. And for that, Captain Planet and his allies wanted me to get punished. When I informed them I was prepared for flood damage by buying flood insurance, this outraged them! Thus, the back-and-forth tit-for-tat name calling. Basically, a feud.
@Bryan. Welafare_Mitch is very short on facts. To compensate for this he resorts to nicknames. I resisted doing this for a long time. Unfortunately when you lower yourself to their level you usually lose because its home territory for them. But sometimes you need to do this. He is a climate change denier, well versed in the denier websites but has no clue about science. He has a weatherman degree from Texas A&M and they didn’t teach him science. He even posts facts that support climate change to try make a denier point yet doesn’t understand he has just provided a link supporting climate change. We feel fro him that his Houston home got flooded.But he is a libertarian who denounces taxation and welfare yet was first in line to claim from FEMA. We are commenting on his hypocrisy. He also refuses to recognize he lives in a flood zone because Houston allows building on wetlands and behind reservoirs and climate change is increasing hurricane strength and rainfall
This link covers some interesting problems about the wonderful(cough) tax rewrite. Short sighted as usual.
I'm interested in buying a Tesla but am concerned about loss of the $7500 federal tax credit. Loss of that benefit could impact my decision. BTW. Enjoy the political chatter... I'm an Independent and retired Army officer.
@Mackey - what would you buy instead?
Hmm. Well guys if that is ok for the two of I guess I will just ignore it. I don't care for name calling as it is demeaning and usually s the act of a bully. But if that is what it has gotten to I will just ignore it.
I know that in my NextDoor forum there is one gentlemen that is simply a bully. If you don't agree with him than you are called names and he tries to publicly shame you. It doesn't do much for me. He tried it with me once. I informed him that from now on I will simply ignore whatever he says.
My wife was shocked when on a thread regarding bicycle lanes I agreed with him. I said if he is right and is willing to talk civilly I will chime in and give credit where credit is due. I guess the same will be here too.
Mackey, I would have bought my MS60 and P85D with or without the tax credit!
Captain Planet = Sanctimonious Socialist Turd number 1. He is a blatant liar when he says that he "feels for me" when my home flooded. That is the biggest bunch of horse crap spouted in this Forum! Captain Planet and his ilk were celebrating when my home flooded. When I informed them that I had flood insurance, they went on a rampage!
After 4 months, got my floor, walls, and stairs installed. I need the cabinets and kitchen rebuilt. Been a long process. Many many homes in Houston that were flooded; too few construction workers to repair them.
Make that 3 months, going on 4.