Forums

Deferral

Deferral

Has anybody exercised the optional deferral when they were contacted to configure their car? I'm curious if the deferral sends you all the way to the back of the line, or if you get slotted in at some approximate time in the future? The contract just says "to a later position to be determined by us" — but I figured there might be some real-world information on it by now.

(Or do Signatures not get to defer? I guess deferral on a Sig doesn't make much sense.)

michaelwm | 13 July 2012

According to my rep when I configured, a deferral on my sig reservation would mean a downgrade to production, at a spot in line similar to whatever production reservation numbers were up for grabs at the time that I got my sig spot.

chrissam42 | 13 July 2012

Hmm okay, that makes some sense for the Sigs. So I guess we just have to wait and see what happens for production deferrals when it comes up.

bsimoes | 13 July 2012

I remember seeing somewhere that it was a one-time six month period of time.

Azdcmoney | 13 July 2012

I was S658, i deferred to get my color choice, green, and i'm not 4068. which i was told was my p number when i first paid my deposit.

adstein | 13 July 2012

@Azdcmoney Are you close to your original number?

jbherman | 14 July 2012

I deferred S576 over a week ago and have not yet been given a P#. "My Tesla" page states "downgrade initiated"...it's been like that for about a week. I just wanted to give TM a little more time to iron out the minor issues currently under discussion, as I'm currently about a 9 hr drive from their nearest service center and didn't want to deal with the hassle of retrofitting a $100K+ car. I also didn't feel that the Signature "premium" provided enough value added for a similarly configured production performance vehicle.

Schlermie | 14 July 2012

If it really is a 6-month deferral, then 6 months at this point is essentially back of the line.

jerry3 | 14 July 2012

Yes, it really is an up to six months one time deferral. It says so right in the form that you read when you make your reservation.

Azdcmoney | 14 July 2012

I was a P then upgraded Tia Sig then downgraded to my original P#

adstein | 14 July 2012

@jbherman a sad +1 (in every sense)

I was sig 577 and dropped down to production for largely similar reasons. I am close to a tesla store but I also greatly prefer the the GP green over any of the sig colors. if i felt there was anything truly unique about the sig i would have kept it but all i saw was 2nd choice colors, an incomplete interior and extra cost (okay early delivery too but at this price the right car is more important than an early car) .

Looks like about 30% of the original sigs deferred which is a sad reflection on the sig value proposition. Obviously as a group (deferrals), we want Tesla to succeed and believe in EVs. Lots of folks left their deposit with tesla for 1 year plus and are now being displaced by people who pay the premium purely to jump the line. I wouldn't have bothered paying the sig deposit if I knew then what I know today.

Absolutely looking forward to the GP though and really want Tesla to succeed. Note that my tesla page says the same thing as yours as of today.

Femi | 17 July 2012

I am thinking of deferring. I also want Tesla to succeed but I need them to sort out quality issues with the fit and finish of the interior and I also want to know their timeline on adaptive cruise control. At $100k+ I expect the car to be at a quality and feature level befitting this price class of car.

Brian H | 17 July 2012

Femi;
So, how much are you willing to pay extra for electric drive? Zero? If you are above that, then it comes from sacrificing something else.

bsimoes | 17 July 2012

How about adopting the "Live and let live" attitude rather than the "holier than thou" attitude. People get so caught up in the "Tesla Frenzy" that they neglect to realize that 100K is a lot of money. We are paying for the battery and styling--granted, but, some of the things people want are already offered standard in other cars without having to pay more again. The Leaf is offered at $20,000 with tax credit and you can have 100 miles of range. The S has so much more to offer, but spending $80,000 more should get you quite a bit. Other companies offer features that people have come to expect. Prior to writing, I checked the Kia website just for kicks. They have a refrigerated glove box, similar pano roof, zenon headlights, heated side mirrors, etc. etc. Yes, it's got an gas engine along with electric, but it, too, is in the $20,000 range. Let's get off the "high horse" and allow other people their opinions without slamming them at every turn!

ddruz | 17 July 2012

+1 bsimoes.

Volker.Berlin | 17 July 2012

bsimoes, I agree. However, you missed the particularly ironic twist -- the fact that Brian H has no skin in the game. That of course makes it easy to leave derogatory remarks.

Brian H, before you jump at me, I concede you have a valid point there. Just be a little more careful with your wording. You, among all of us, should have the abilities and master your language with care and susceptibility.
;)
;p

MandL | 17 July 2012

I didn't get the "high horse" vibe from Brian H's comment. I think there is a valid point to be made that if you are comparing features on $100K cars you can't just pretend it's apples to apples until you get to certain features, like adaptive cruise control, or even refrigerated glove boxes. If you're looking for a luxury car with specific amenities and you don't care about the drive train, then by all means, get a BMW or Audi. If you're looking for an electric car and don't care about amenities, by all means compare it to a Leaf or RAV4 EV. Model S is about 2x price of a Leaf with 2x range. About the same price as a RAV4 EV with slightly better range. Model S 60 or 85kwh costs a lot more and goes a lot farther. Model S perf compares performance-wise to some pretty slick cars, some of which cost a lot more, and have more amentities, and some of which cost more and have many fewer amenities. Can you get adaptive cruise control on a Lamborghini? Don't think so. Is anyone complaining about that?

Volker.Berlin | 17 July 2012

Regarding the question of whether or not the Model S is appropriately priced, there have been two pretty intensive discussions going on. It may be worth reading them again, or even comment from today's perspective (they are several months old):
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-pricing-reactions
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/option-pricing

Brian H | 17 July 2012

MandL;
+1
Thanks for making explicit the implications.
Elon, when saying the S was the "best car in the world", later qualified that by adding "in all the dimensions that matter". Elon has a kind of high-minded engineer's POV on what those are, so if you don't share his values, you won't share his opinion.

Which brings up an interesting hypothetical: if/as battery prices fall, will TM put the savings into more luxury and "amenities", or drop the price of the car? Which would you prefer?

Brian H | 17 July 2012

P.S. -- third option, of course: more raw range.
Or a split?
Here's the list:
1. Amenities
2. Price reduction
3. Driving Range

How would you allocate the battery savings? 40/10/40? 100/0/0? 0/0/100?

Vote now!

EdG | 17 July 2012

We'll see how TM decides this question when Bluestar becomes a reality. I'd like to see a range closer to 600-700 miles on a full charge, making the idea of range anxiety or specialized EV planning for road trips a bad memory.

And I'm definitely cancelling my deposit on that Lamborghini. No adaptive cruise control on a commuter car? Someone must be kidding.

andex23 | 17 July 2012

Has there been any information regarding transfer of the reservation spot to another person? I am P#3404 so I should be end of 2012 beginging of 2013. If someone has a Sig that they want to defer, could we swap numbers?

Also, If you defer from a Sig to a P do you get 35k back?

Vawlkus | 17 July 2012

I believe it counts toward your bill for whichever you get. It'd be kinda pointless for them to give back 35k and then give you a 50k final bill.

Only reason I can see for a payout is if you can your order.

Ohms.Law | 17 July 2012

andex23: Why so pessimistic on the delivery date? If TM is predicting 5,000 cars in 2012, wouldn't you expect delivery in 2012? (He innocently asks with a P# of 3422)

andex23 | 17 July 2012

Decent question,

Based on the 1000+ sigs, the R#'s, and founder cars I assume we are the tail end of 5000 total cars produced, a slight hiccup in production to contain quality would push us into 2013.

I also am trying to temper my internal excitement, a December/January date is realistic and I can always be pleasantly suprised... It's what Elon wants.

However, if I can switch reservations with someone who has "reservations" about the car, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Ohms.Law | 17 July 2012

I think the 5,000 target is includes the Sigs, et. al. However I imagine our very own Index Meister, the revered Volker.Berlin himself, could point us to the right forum. (He says with the upmost of respect!)

Ohms.Law | 17 July 2012

Okay, yes, an extra "is" crept in there.

jbherman | 17 July 2012

@ Vawlkus: I deferred and received a refund of $30K (I put the other $5K on a Model X reservation). This was per their standard operating procedure. Regardless, I'd rather have my money in my hands than in their's until it's time to finalize my order.

David70 | 17 July 2012

In terms of switching reservation number, a friend of mine and I were trying to do that. We were told at the Seattle test drive that it couldn't be done.

Volker.Berlin | 18 July 2012

Ohms.Law, I have the same assumptions regarding "5000 cars" like you have, but I don't have any sources to back them up.

I could easily imagine that "5000" is just a nice round number that Tesla brought up at some point b/c they needed to give some number to the public. From that perspective, Tesla has allowed itself a little leeway in either direction -- they can offer a precise definition after the fact and thus make sure that they hit (or exceed) their target.

MandL | 18 July 2012

Ohms_Law / andex23 - Your timing might be just perfect to request your Tesla Personal Deliveryman show up in a Santa Suit. Maybe at the office Christmas Party? I can see it now:

"Santa has one especially good little boy at the very top of his list! Ho Ho Ho!"

Brian H | 18 July 2012

MandL;
Don't you mean, "Har, Har, Car!" ?9-/

foto | 18 July 2012

I know this thread is intended for deferral issues but I would like to comment on cost vs. quality issues that were brought up earlier.
While Tesla is not hand-twisting anyone to make a commitment here, I think it would be nice for its reputation for the first set of customers to be reasonably satisfied and not just settle for "the available". As the likes of Femi has stated, it does not befit a $100K+ car to not meet some level of expectations. For instance, while I have not fully studied the Roadster, I've seen one at the local Tesla store with a better interior leather than the S. Why the downgrade. My wife's Acura interior should not be better than my $100k+ car.

To Brian H's quote "...in all the dimensions that matter". If interior luxury doesn't matter, let Tesla not tout the S as a luxury vehicle because it falls short of the qualification. I have stated a couple of times that some of us don't care for the green aspect of the car but just the fact it's electric, has a 17" screen and probably an industry pioneer: just for bragging. It would be nice to be able to add quality and luxury to that list. BTW, I'll like to add that fabric should never have been an option for this car, even the $50K option.

I strongly believe that most of us that have committed by making reservations want Tesla's success, but I don't think it should be at an expense either. Wouldn't a large deferral or cancellation affect Tesla's PR negatively? You can already see my point in the number of deffered/cancelled Signature reservations.

Hopefully our comments are heard and addressed.

David70 | 18 July 2012

IIRC, officially it's a premium sedan. But then, I don't really know the differences.

Volker.Berlin | 19 July 2012

E class is premium, S class is luxury.

Vawlkus | 19 July 2012

The Roadster was hand crafted, the Model S is mass produced. That's the difference.

foto | 19 July 2012

I guess I need a little education here. When you say hand crafted, are the leather seating hand sown before being put in the car? What about the quality of the material used, are those hand selected for the roadster from the supplier while it's robot selected for the Model S?

Bottom line is that AFAIC the finishing of the leather work, is below expectation.

Brian H | 19 July 2012

foto | July 18, 2012
...
To Brian H's quote "...in all the dimensions that matter". If interior luxury doesn't matter, let Tesla not tout the S as a luxury vehicle because it falls short of the qualification.

Cite, please. AFAIK, TM has never used the phrase "luxury vehicle". Premium sedan is the phrasing I've heard.

So you get your wish/demand; Tesla does indeed not "tout" the MS as a luxury vehicle.

brianman | 19 July 2012

In official literature, it's usually (always?) "premium" rather than "luxury".

In some of the test drives, you can hear them being a little looser with the terminology -- sometimes calling it luxury.