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I am finished with TESLA

I am finished with TESLA

I am finished with TESLA. I own a large business with 250+ employees. I own a roadster with all the options (hardtop, extended battery warranty, etc),which cost almost $150,000. I have a background in physics, although it is not related to my profession, but I understand technology. I have been following the company and the technology while the roadster was only a prototype. I believed in Musk and I believed in the technology and the concept. I believed in my sales representative, Graham. I did a big article in the local newspaper about electric vehicles and how I installed TESLA charging stations at my business because I so believed in this concept. I in fact, thought it would save america from the curse of oil dependance and auto emissions. I was wrong. I don't believe anymore.
I waited for almost a year for my model S. After Graham (the only one in this whole ordeal I can trust)moved away,I was handed off to many different people handling my car purchase (5 or 6),and none of them really knew very much. I was repeatedly lied-to by several about the delivery of my vehicle. In fact, Mike from California said "we just want to get this car off of our lot" and was going to drop-ship the car to me by UPS. Wait a minute, I paid for a "delivery specialist" to be there for me, and at least I was promised that the car would be wrapped and delivered in an enclosed truck to Wyoming. Another "delivery expert" took over and he (Cale) assured me that the car would arrive charged and would be wrapped and in a covered truck.
When the car arrived today, battery almost totally discharged, un-wrapped, un-covered, pulled on a cheap, open trailor behind a pick-up truck, it was covered with water which should have alerted me to a problem. But I believed in TESLA. I was wrong. The delivery driver quickly dumped the model S and drove off. The car, my beautiful model S was scratched in multiple places, the scratches had been attempted to be covered up by buffing, which scratched the car further. There was road dirt all over the vehicle and bits of some type of adhesive. The water on the vehicle in retrospect was a trick to cover-up all the blemishes.
I called Cale, my "delivery expert" and he stated that since the car was paid for and registered to me, it was my responsibility. I was later called back and informed that someone would pick the car up to re-paint it.
Repaint-it.
My beautiful Model S, for which I waited for a year. Now it needs to be re-painted, and somehow it has become my responsibility. Cale the "delivery expert" said "at least you got a tax break". Great... trash my $100,000 car and tell me I got a $7,500 tax break for buying an electric vehicle.

I was going to put a $40,000 deposit on a model X on Monday, Jan 7, 2013.
Not any more.
I am done with TESLA and the teenagers that they have empowered to handle customers paying $100,000 for a sedan, and who lie and behave like they are selling cheap chevy's.

I want the company to buy back my roadster, my charging stations, and my model S.

I don't believe any more.

I am finished with TESLA.

Tom
Wyoming

Brian H | 18 January 2013

Ya, the concept of a "jump table", where figures and dates used in common by various processes can be updated once, centrally, with all the routines accessing it in real time seems to have escaped them. It was decades old when I learned it over 40 years ago ...

Cattledog | 19 January 2013

louis & Brian - Agree. They were still 'Building my Model S' while I was driving it. That's one heck of a space-time continuum. Little things like that are little things, but they can erode confidence, especially with those who do not have a pioneer mindset.

My friend, who reserved a day after we had dsm's party in September, got his 'Finalized' (or whatever, I don't remember what it's called) e-mail a few weeks ago and so his window was running down before the price increase. Believe me, the $2,500 was a non-issue for him, the detachment was. He was about to cancel when I got my car and went to his house and let him drive it. Got him re-energized. He now has 'Finalized', but would have cancelled if not for the fortuitous timing of my delivery.

I don't think this is an isolated problem for Tesla. All of us forum junkies have this to keep pumped and connected, but we are what - 25% of reservation holders? 50%? All those others drop cash and then get lonely. I think they are losing reservations because of it. I think more cars on the road will help, won't be 'out of sight' as much, and more showrooms/galleries where you can get your Tesla fix.

www.teslamodels.wordpress.com

sandman | 21 January 2013

@Tom - Graham was handling my delivery from 12/27 - early Jan and I was suddenly transferred to another delivery specialist. I asked the new one what happened to Graham and was told he was pulled off of all accounts to work a serious problem. No details as to what it was but now I know. Good to see them recovering here. I've had a few hiccups in my delivery but a) nothing like yours and others I've heard and b) they've resolved all of my issues to date.

Glad to see you back with us swimming in warm kool-aid ;)

tom | 21 January 2013

Gina and I are driving the "S". we own 15+ cars and this is clearly the best car we have ever owned. I have to pry gina out of it with a crowbar. Our software is the origional version 1.14.15.whatever.

Issues so far: we paid for the "tech package" but voice dialing, auto presenting door handlesand navigation do not function.
Navigation has the car located in Palo Alto despite being in Wyoming. The connector to the roadster high powered wall connector is recognized by the car only rarely. I have to open the charge port manually from the touch screen and then it takes a while for the car to recognize that it is plugged in. Although the roadster HPWC is 100 amps, the car will only charge at 40 amps. I WILL NOT upgrade to an upgraded software package because I have read that the software upgrades have a lot of bugs. Graham has continued to be great and has been a great representative. Nothing he has said or done has ever been false or misleading. I find it disturbing that when I was in the showroom in Denver, the female TESLA sales agent was "selling" the attributes of the model S to another customer. I find it a little upsetting that she was representing things about the "S" that doesn't currently work on my "S" as if these technological issues do not exist. I feel that if I paid for the tech package, then it should work as promised. If it is not going to work, then I should be able to pay for it " a la carte" if I wanted to upgrade later. I paid for a bunch of promises. I hope they eventually come true.

We really love the car.

Tom and Gina
Casper, Wyoming

Brian H | 21 January 2013

Tom and Gina;
Seems a bit like a contradiction if you want everything to work but won't upgrade the software. You might as well accept the updates as they come; you might be surprised at what suddenly starts to work!

In for a penny ...

RacerX | 2 March 2013

Tom and Gina,

"tom@cwnsurgery.com | January 21, 2013

Gina and I are driving the "S"...I have to pry gina out of it with a crowbar. Our software is the origional version 1.14.15.whatever.

Issues so far: we paid for the "tech package" but voice dialing, auto presenting door handlesand navigation do not function..."

Did you upgrade the software?
Are all of your problems solved?
Do you have any new problems with your Model S?

RanjitC | 3 March 2013

Blankenship's response is typical of how good Tesla is to its customers. I damaged my MS and they fixed it GRATIS. I had a problem with the supercharger at Barstow they called back to make sure everything worked out. Yes they are having teething problems but they have the right attitude. Tesla rocks!

Fishguy | 4 March 2013

I don't mind people discussing their MS problems but reading through this whole post, Tom comes off as a Prima donna. There are many Tesla customers that have decent size companies and make a fair bit of cash without putting it all in writing. I have some issues with my car but will make the calls and emails first without blasting off a wall of text about how they are so wrong and I'm so right because I have 15 cars and 250 workers and a mansion and supercharges installed everywhere... You think one of the 250 people could get a Tesla manager on the phone for you? You think when such a majestic businessman could see his car is so stuffed up coming off the trailer to sign "refused due to......visible defects"? Or maybe I got this all wrong I should through a giant hissy fit and have Elon fly in a sort out my issues.

tom | 11 March 2013

Fishguy is bogus. He or SHE gave themself away. Who said anything about a mansion or multiple charging stations? I will invite him or her to show up at my "mansion" and I will be happy to show him how a self-made man can take care of himself. I can do my own "wet-work".

You are a coward to deride me like that.

Crow | 11 March 2013

tom@cwnsurgery - You have to pry Gina out of the car with a crowbar? If I said that about my wife, she would put a rolling pin upside my head. My recommendation is to delete this thread before she sees it.

Mashid | 6 July 2013

i am an avid believer in Tesla and Musk,i purchased 2 Model S's from Tesla one for me and one for my Daughter specifically identical and told the agent because i am commuting BW San Diego and Fresno i need 85kw battery and high power home charger ,my heck of surprise they charged me $1800 dollar charging unit and $1900 circuit upgrade no difference charging speed BW 220 volt that I already had and new charger (and blaming the poor Electrician for bad install),until we called Tesla ,finding out they did not include a feature called twin charger in my car (my daughter got it) i am out $3500.00 and not an AMP of improvement ,now i am on hold ,on empty promises of call back and no responses for several weeks .that is true there are going to be 20K+ cars out there by year end. Bigger spot light, how are they going to keep 100k customers happy

philpayan@gmail.com ,

tes-s | 7 July 2013

Were your order confirmations and price for each car identical and they just left the twin charger out of the build on yours? I believe that is something they can easily add to make it right.

Bighorn | 7 July 2013

Why are you out $3500 if you configured the car with dual chargers, which run $1500. It you indeed ordered it, it would be on your order confirmation and Tesla would be obliged to provide it. They can retrofit on their dime, unless of course, you neglected to order it in the first place,

MBCMDR | 8 July 2013

I just want to say not everyone is negative here. I got my car and very please as ordered and received in 31 days from order, as they even asked if I was sure on my build design and would allow them to start early. I assume I got an empty spot same way we do at Boeing if an empty slot opens up we provide to a customer. The car was delivered as promised and even offer to truck it here to my house from the service center that was only 80 miles South. The only problem I had I didn't know how to setup the mirrors to tilt down and thank the person that told me how as took no time at all to do.. For me this is the long term car and sure be getting more Tesla in future but I think the low cost model will not have all the goodies of an S/X model nor the size of the battery pack offered cut the price cut the items. I be guessing that cheap model largest battery pack would be like a 40kWh as assume the wheel base could be much smaller too..

RZippel | 10 July 2013

Well. The dual charger option. I think most people fail to read what they actually buy. The single charger can do 16A 3 phase or 40A 1 phase, the dual can do 32A 3 phase or 80A 1 phase.

Not sure what exists in "the wild" in the US, in Germany that translates to the following theoretical maximum charging performance table:

Single Dual
Regular 230V16A 3,7 kW 3,7 kW
1 Phase 32 A 7,4 kW 7,4 kW
3 Phase 16 A 6,4 kW 6,4 kW
3 Phase 32 A 6,4 kW 12,8 kW

So only if you have 32A/2Phases you benefit from dual chargers. Or (but that doesn't exist here in the consumer space) more than 32A. We have 230V everywhere, so 3 Phases are 230V*SQRT(3), about 400V effective voltage.

And by the way, none of those numbers is 11 or 22kW ;-)

Brian H | 10 July 2013

Here's a more readable table, using the "pre" tag, and substituting the N.A. standard dot for comma to show decimals:

Single Dual
Regular 230V16A 3.7 kW 3.7 kW
1 Phase 32 A 7.4 kW 7.4 kW
3 Phase 16 A 6.4 kW 6.4 kW
3 Phase 32 A 6.4 kW 12.8 kW

brian_in_TX | 2 December 2014

I was volkerizing for something else when the title of this thread hit me and I had to read it. An amazing situation in a bad way, and what a wonderful response from a young car company that wants to do right. I love all the banter around the topic from all sides.

The other thing that struck me is how different and smooth the delivery process seems now, although we all want to get our toys faster I'm sure.

Anyway, thought I'd post this in case anyone else would appreciate a walk down memory lane. Sometimes it's helpful and enjoyable to look back.

B

Grinnin'.VA | 2 December 2014

@ brian_in_MD | December 2, 2014

..., although we all want to get our toys faster I'm sure.

No! Some of us think we have no practical use for driving faster than 120 mph. Where I live, I consider that inherently dangerous.

I'd prefer to pay a bit more for a Tesla MS with a little less acceleration and top speed along with increased range.

Ron :)

JaneW | 2 December 2014

@Grinnin'
I don't drive over 100 mph anymore. i don't do track days anymore, but i still autocross, most of which takes place under 60. But I still enjoy the performance at all levels of these cars.
From 30 to 50 in a pass. from 45 to 70 in a pass. A little extra push coming out of a corner.
Has nothing to do with top speed. For me.

JeffreyR | 3 December 2014

+1 JaneW

"Be quick, but don't hurry."
— Coach John Wooden

One of his many gems.

Acceleration can get you out of trouble. Some have asked for even better brakes to go w/ the 'D' too. Makes sense.

Grinnin'.VA | 3 December 2014

@ JeffreyR | December 3, 2014

Acceleration can get you out of trouble.

True in theory. However, in more than 50 years driving I have never encountered such a situation. That could be that I've not encountered a typical mix of situations, but I doubt that.

Ron :)

just an allusion | 3 December 2014

@JaneW

Are you saying that you autocross a Tesla...?!

james.nicklin | 3 December 2014

Grinnin' @us.VA: in more than 50 years driving I have never encountered such a situation

I encountered such a situation in under ten years of driving. They happen.

JeffreyR | 3 December 2014

@Grinnin'
Defensive driving sure helps avoiding putting that theory into practice. It was a favorite point of my motor-head friend in college. What I usually replied is that I usually see it (super quick acceleration) getting you into more trouble than out of it. ;^)

It goes along w/ the thread about range vs. acceleration. How you drive is really the biggest factor. The different gearing in the second 'D' motor gets slightly better range and higher top speed. But, that father-son team has already shown in a single-motor 'S' that you can go over 400 miles on a single charge.

Grinnin'.VA | 3 December 2014

@ JeffreyR | December 3, 2014

@Grinnin'
Defensive driving sure helps avoiding putting that theory into practice. ... I usually see it (super quick acceleration) getting you into more trouble than out of it. ;^)

That's the way I see it too. I've seen hundreds of 'close calls'. And avoided almost all of them.

... But, that father-son team has already shown in a single-motor 'S' that you can go over 400 miles on a single charge.

Yes. At an even pace of about 25 mph. Does anyone know anyone who does such a thing routinely? Personally, when I go on a road trip, I prefer to 'go with the flow', a bit over the speed limit.

Go Tesla!

TSLAholic | 3 December 2014

"although we all want to get our toys (faster = sooner delivery) I'm sure"

How in the world did we switch from the topic of getting the cars delivered sooner, to them being physically faster? It seems everyone just went along with the speed and acceleration talk, and kept at it. :)

Brian H | 3 December 2014

In an EV there is NO range/accel trade-off, unless it's electronically imposed. More range necessarily allows more power = more acceleration, unless capped. In any car, slower driving and more gentle accel provides more range.

TM cannot alter the physics of that, and has not. Increasing traction on starts to take advantage of power increases accel, also. But a Leaf or Prius with perfect traction and low rolling resistance would still lack power to replicate Tesla acceleration. Because the battery capacity is too low. Same constraint on range.

One of the three will always be the bottleneck: traction, power, or resistance. For any given mass.

In an ICE, it's different because losses soar with increased engine size.

carlgo | 3 December 2014

I have been wondering about the delivery thing. How in the world do you deliver 50K cars, much less hundreds of thousands? Huge fleets of delivery trucks, many thousands of delivery people? Driving hundreds of miles in some cases.

Then there is the issue of problems. Teslas have problems too at times, just perhaps fewer and of course different ones than found on other cars.

It sure seems like it will be difficult to avoid some sort of quasi-dealership to handle deliveries and service. Don't like dealing with stealerships more than anyone else, but along with likely some very difficult political obstacles, how will Tesla avoid some sort of dealership situation? Just doesn't seem possible.

carlk | 3 December 2014

@Grinnin' You just don't want to give up do you? You can say what you want a million times but that will not chnage the fact that there is little or no trade off between power and range for an EV.

Red Sage ca us | 4 December 2014

Grinnin' Ron expressed, "I'd prefer to pay a bit more for a Tesla MS with a little less acceleration and top speed along with increased range."

OK. What would be the battery pack capacity of this vehicle that had less acceleration, and lower top speed? What would its increased range be? Why would the range be increased? How much more would you pay for it? When do you want it?

Grinnin'.VA | 4 December 2014

@ Brian H | December 3, 2014

In an EV there is NO range/accel trade-off, unless it's electronically imposed.

@ carlk | December 3, 2014 new

@Grinnin' You just don't want to give up do you? You can say what you want a million times but that will not chnage the fact that there is little or no trade off between power and range for an EV.

This is conventional Tesla enthusiast opinion, not backed up by any Tesla engineering claim. I'm skeptical.

For those who don't like me posting my views on this topic, I have a suggestion: Quit posting unsubstantiated claims that I'm wrong.

@ Red Sage ca us | December 4, 2014

Grinnin' Ron expressed, "I'd prefer to pay a bit more for a Tesla MS with a little less acceleration and top speed along with increased range."

OK. What would be the battery pack capacity of this vehicle that had less acceleration, and lower top speed? What would its increased range be? Why would the range be increased? How much more would you pay for it? When do you want it?

Red, I think I recall you complaining about my posts on this topic. But you ask, so I'll tell you:

What would be the battery pack capacity? I could care less.
... top speed? About 100 mph would work for me.
... increased range be? Over 300 miles at 75 mph.
How much more would you pay for it? About $120k
When do you want it? ASAP

Now, please don't complain that part of this repeats ideas from my previous posts.

Go Tesla!

Brian H | 4 December 2014

Duh. That's not Tesla-talk. It's physics. EVs are so lossy there's a trade-off, but with EVs the connection is direct.

bryan.whitton | 4 December 2014

If I may chime in on this. One way to look at this is to use my Honda FIT EV. It has three performance modes. Eco, Normal and Sport. If you select a different mode the Guessometer changes the estimated miles remaining on the current battery charge. However, if you go the same speed and accelerate at the same level the real mileage works out to be the same. So no matter how powerful the motor or battery the usage is the determining factor.

Having said that, if you drive in sport mode the way the extra power allows you really do take the mileage down from 80 to 47 or whatever.

The important thing her is no matter what the potential performance is if you drive the car the same the usage is the same.

So if there was a Tesla that could go 130 and accelerate 0 - 60 in 5 seconds and another that had a smaller motor that only allowed a 0 to 60 of 9 seconds but you only drove it at a level of 0 - 60 of 12 seconds the power usage would be approximately the same. With minor differences due to efficiency differences between the motors.

Red Sage ca us | 4 December 2014

Grinnin' Ron: You don't care what the battery pack capacity is...? Show me the numbers. Prove your hypothesis. Tell us how you believe Tesla Motors 'could' manage this feat to your satisfaction.

You don't want any of the prior or current top speeds. You want it limited to 100 MPH. Fine.

You don't want to drag race, but would be satisfied with the ability to reach 0-60 MPH in 6.0 seconds. Fine.

How much range 'over 300' do you want at 75 MPH?

What should be the bare minimum achievable range on a full charge, regardless of speed, weather, traffic, or road conditions?

What is the average Wh per mile in your car, when you drive 75 MPH?

Grinnin'.VA | 5 December 2014

@ Red Sage ca us | December 4, 2014

Tell us how you believe Tesla Motors 'could' manage this feat to your satisfaction.

Did I write that I know how to design the BEV that I'd like to have? NO. I'm not a professional BEV engineer. I suspect that starting with the S85D design, Tesla could vary the gear ratios and then optimize the inverter (I don't know the details.) to achieve greater range while maintaining the 'performance' (acceleration and speed) that I'd like to have.

You don't want any of the prior or current top speeds. You want it limited to 100 MPH. Fine.

I said that 100 mph would satisfy me, which isn't the same as what you said.

You don't want to drag race, but would be satisfied with the ability to reach 0-60 MPH in 6.0 seconds. Fine.

You asked questions; I answered your questions. What's your beef?

How much range 'over 300' do you want at 75 MPH?

Isn't it obvious to you that, all things being the same, I want more range. Ideally I'd like the range to be unlimited. Wouldn't you?

What should be the bare minimum achievable range on a full charge, regardless of speed, weather, traffic, or road conditions?

If you're talking about the real world, the answer is zero. There are times when the weather or traffic or accidents with hazardous material spills when the roads/highways are blocked. The cars must stop and wait. Now, do you want to rephrase your question?

What is the average Wh per mile in your car, when you drive 75 MPH?

Tesla posted a white paper (May 9, 2012) by Elon and JBS entitled "Model S Efficiency and Range". It included a graph showing the "Range vs. Constant Speed" for the Roadster and the MS. For the MS at 75 mph it shows a range of about 220 miles. That's about 386 Wh per mile. Before trading it in for an S85D, I did not drive my MS85 far enough at a constant speed of 75 mph to give me a better estimate than that.

Questions for ALL:

1. Are you satisfied with a range of 220 miles at 75 mph for road trips?
2. Do you know prospective MS buyers who would be satisfied with this range limit? Know any who would consider this range disappointing?

Go Tesla!

Rocky_H | 5 December 2014

@Red, you are getting into asking a lot of ridiculous questions. A lot of people are making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Grinnin's question/proposal is very simple:
In the gasoline engine world, using a smaller, less powerful engine almost always wastes less fuel, so you get better economy and more range with that smaller engine.
He is suggesting that he thinks the same principle would apply with electric motors.

Lots of people here are saying "no", but are providing no evidence at all.

I do understand others' explanations, that having a large electric motor capable of more power does not have to always waste energy. You can run less current through it, and it should operate the same as a smaller motor running that same current.

HOWEVER, I did some searching for a while, and I can't find any sources that actually say or support that idea. Can anyone locate that?

TimV | 5 December 2014

Here are a couple of links that might be useful:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motor-efficiency-d_655.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_loss

The primary source of losses in an electric motor are known as "copper losses". Basically, the lower the electrical resistance a motor has, the more efficient it will be. Less of the energy put into the motor gets turned into heat. So, how do you lower the resistance? One way is to increase the winding density. That can only get you so far as the wasted space quickly drops to zero. Another way is to increase the cross section of copper. Increasing the cross section of copper not only lowers the resistance, it also tends to make the motor bigger and have a higher output.

If you click on the first link it shows clearly that motors with a lower power rating are less efficient that motors with a larger power rating. I would imagine that the motors in the Model S are 95% efficient or perhaps even more. Installing a smaller motor that would limit the acceleration would actually result in less range, not more.

Changing the gear ratio doesn't make a difference, either, as long as the motor is kept within it's rated torque and rpm limits. Total power output is the same whether the torque is low and rpm high or vice versa.

The outcome here is pretty simple. The best way to increase the range of the Model S is to increase the battery capacity. Electric motors are very different than ICEs so the same rules don't apply.

Guy2095 | 5 December 2014

Best way to reduce energy use as speed increases is to reduce wind resistance. Best way to reduce energy use in acceleration is to reduce weight, second best is to recapture it better in regeneration.

Tesla has done an extraordinary optimization of these factors. It looks like their greatest remaining potential range increase is improving energy storage per unit of mass.

Mankind's basic inadequacy is that we have not yet mastered the most common, fundamental energy source in the universe, nuclear fusion. We must therefore keep improving our crawling abilities until we learn to walk.

Brian H | 5 December 2014

+1 TimV!

Red Sage ca us | 5 December 2014

TimV: +1 UP! Thanks. I had begun a lengthy reply on my tablet this afternoon, but it was spontaneously wiped. I couldn't recover it, then realized the thread had originally begun in early 2013...

kjetil.sandal | 21 January 2015

is this issue fixed? i could not find any more information if this old story got an ending and a solution?
I would love to hear how and when, because this is not good "pr" for Tesla.
Hopefully my Local Dealership will handle all my problems if i get any :-)

"
I AM FINISHED WITH TESLA
tom | 5. JANUAR 2013
I am finished with TESLA. I own a large business with 250+ employees. I own a roadster with all the options (hardtop, extended battery warranty, etc),which cost almost $150,000. I have a background in physics, although it is not related to my profession, but I understand technology. I have been following the company and the technology while the roadster was only a prototype. I believed in Musk and I believed in the technology and the concept. I believed in my sales representative, Graham. I did a big article in the local newspaper about electric vehicles and how I installed TESLA charging stations at my business because I so believed in this concept. I in fact, thought it would save america from the curse of oil dependance and auto emissions. I was wrong. I don't believe anymore.
I waited for almost a year for my model S. After Graham (the only one in this whole ordeal I can trust)moved away,I was handed off to many different people handling my car purchase (5 or 6),and none of them really knew very much. I was repeatedly lied-to by several about the delivery of my vehicle. In fact, Mike from California said "we just want to get this car off of our lot" and was going to drop-ship the car to me by UPS. Wait a minute, I paid for a "delivery specialist" to be there for me, and at least I was promised that the car would be wrapped and delivered in an enclosed truck to Wyoming. Another "delivery expert" took over and he (Cale) assured me that the car would arrive charged and would be wrapped and in a covered truck.
When the car arrived today, battery almost totally discharged, un-wrapped, un-covered, pulled on a cheap, open trailor behind a pick-up truck, it was covered with water which should have alerted me to a problem. But I believed in TESLA. I was wrong. The delivery driver quickly dumped the model S and drove off. The car, my beautiful model S was scratched in multiple places, the scratches had been attempted to be covered up by buffing, which scratched the car further. There was road dirt all over the vehicle and bits of some type of adhesive. The water on the vehicle in retrospect was a trick to cover-up all the blemishes.
I called Cale, my "delivery expert" and he stated that since the car was paid for and registered to me, it was my responsibility. I was later called back and informed that someone would pick the car up to re-paint it.
Repaint-it.
My beautiful Model S, for which I waited for a year. Now it needs to be re-painted, and somehow it has become my responsibility. Cale the "delivery expert" said "at least you got a tax break". Great... trash my $100,000 car and tell me I got a $7,500 tax break for buying an electric vehicle.

I was going to put a $40,000 deposit on a model X on Monday, Jan 7, 2013.
Not any more.
I am done with TESLA and the teenagers that they have empowered to handle customers paying $100,000 for a sedan, and who lie and behave like they are selling cheap chevy's.

I want the company to buy back my roadster, my charging stations, and my model S.

I don't believe any more.

I am finished with TESLA.

Tom
Wyoming"

John Northey | 21 January 2015

When it comes to delivery are there alternate options? For example, to save on delivery could one just pick up the car and drive it home from a main location? Once the Supercharger station in Duluth,MN is open I could potentially fly to Toronto, pick up the car from there, and drive home to Thunder Bay. If it saved a few thousand then it might be worth it (plus allow me to break in the car nicely). That way also I could avoid the issue Tom hit with getting the car after it was strapped to a truck for a long distance.

Red Sage ca us | 21 January 2015

john: Delivery costs do not change, no matter the pickup or delivery location. Tesla motors will accommodate whatever you prefer. Service Center, Tesla Store, airport o shopping center parking lot, or direct to your home. If it is a Canadian car, you might do well to take delivery in Canada though, so that any paperwork for import is handled already.

John Northey | 21 January 2015

Thanks Red Sage... I kind of expected that (hit that with a Toyota I bought years ago...the plant was close by and I could've just picked it up when it came off the line but they still would charge the delivery fee). Still, never hurts to check. Seeing the customer service mentioned here (Tesla calling and digging into it with him) I suspect there is nothing to worry about. Maybe some issues, but if so they'll be taken care of.

Brian H | 22 January 2015

RS;
Is the direct to home option still open? I think volume is too high now to accommodate that.

Red Sage ca us | 22 January 2015

I think it is still available to those in remote areas. If there is a Service Center within fifteen or twenty miles of your home, they would probably prefer to make the delivery there, I'm sure. They might do a valet pickup instead.

montauto | 26 January 2015

Here is my personal story with Tesla and is not a nice one...

- About 18 months or so I've made a reservation for Model X

- In June 2014 I walked in to the Oak Brook IL Tesla store to ask about the Model X possible delivery dates etc. I was told it's being postponed for 2015 and no info is available as to when in 2015 ..

- Sales person Jordan Rhyne started talking to me to get a Model S now, because he could hook me up with a 2 month turn around time for delivery and so on and that I can keep my reservation for Model X.
I told the Sales person that I'd really like to get an SUV as a family car etc , but he kept convincing me that Model S has great capacity etc.

Since I really wanted to have an electric car I started warming up to the idea instead of waiting another year or more for Model X.
At that moment I asked the sales person specifically whether Tesla has any specific updates coming for the Model S , such as all wheel drive etc, since we have a harsh winter in Chicago and we'd love to have AWD vehicle and that I'd be willing to wait if something new was coming etc and I am in no rush whatsoever...

He told me that there are no upgrades or AWD option for Model S coming, but most likely that would be available for Model X at some point.
Since he confirmed Tesla is not going to release any upgraded Model S with AWD or anything else I agreed to place an order for Model S P85+
So I did place an order with all possible options including child seats in the trunk

- End of September I took delivery of the car

- One week later Tesla announced new Model S with dual motor (AWD) and Auto pilot

You can imagine my frustration at this time, because I specifically asked the Sales person about any upcoming upgrades on the Model S line and he assured me there was nothing planned or coming etc.
I asked Tesla to connect me with some higher authority / manager to try to resolve this somehow and I was connected with Ross Fumagalli - Sales manager.

He told me the only way we can do this is if I trade the car and get the P85D
Tesla valued the car at $110k just couple weeks after I took delivery and paid $140k for it.
After going back and forth with Ross Fumagalli we agreed on the trade, because he convinced me that I can get the tax credits for the 2nd car P85D as well and that will minimize my loss to some extend

- On October 21st 2014 together with Ross Fumagalli I placed another order for Model S P85D - again with all options available including the Next Generation seats, with the child seats in the back and extra set of winter wheels and tires.

- Beginning of December I was told that I should expect delivery end of December.

- Around Dec 12th I called the DS Andrew O'Donnell from the local Tesla service center to get an update of when they're planning to deliver the vehicle because I was going out of town between Dec 26th and Jan 3rd. At that point he advised me that he doesn't have a firm delivery update and we have continued our conversation in regards how the actual trade will take place.
He advised me to start the process with the trade by returning my Model S P85+ to them and they will provide a rental vehicle in the mean time until the new one arrives.

- On Dec 12th I went to the Tesla local service center and I turned in my Model S P85+ and I was sent to Enterprise rental store near by to receive the rental car which turn out to be not the promised Chevy Tahoe, but Hyundai Azera.

- On Dec 23rd the DS Andrew O'Donnell called me stating that he will get the new vehicle around Dec 29th. He knew I was going to be out of town and he asked me to come to the service center and sign all papers for the vehicle delivery and simply pick up the car when I return.

I didn't like the idea, because I wanted to see the vehicle first, but he then told me: I am trying to finalize the paperwork for you in 2014 so you can get the state / federal tax credits in 2015. He was the one pushing onto this and not me !!!!

I agreed to stop by that day and sign the papers although there was no car to accept. I was in no way in rush to sign papers before I actually see the car and I didn't care whether I'll get those credits in 2015 or 2016, but he insisted.

- On Jan 3rd 2015 I was informed that the car is finally there and I could come to pick it up on Jan 5th 2015

- On Jan 4th 2015 I was informed that the windshield of the car must be replaced ( later on I was told that the windshield was cracked during transport ) and we should postpone pick up for Jan 6th 2015 after they replace it.

- On Jan 6th 2015 I arrived at the local SC to pick up the Model S P85D. I immediately noticed that the seats in the car were not the Next Generation seats. I asked the DS about it and he seemed confused and he asked a technician to check the seats to determine whether those are the old or the next generation seats. Tech confirmed those are the old model seats.

At that moment the DS Andrew O'Donnell told me to wait for him to make a call. He returned to me stating that those seats were not available at the time the vehicle was built and that Tesla will install them at some later point, but he couldn't provide a time frame.
Since I already had bad experience with my dealings with Tesla I told the DS that I can't accept delivery, because this is not the car I ordered and paid for.
At that moment they asked me to speak with Joe DiMaggio - Regional Delivery Manager. He tried to convince me to take delivery , but I refused.
He said he'll get back to me.
At this moment I was totally shocked with everything that was going on since I paid $150k for a car that was not built the way it was ordered and that NO ONE from Tesla has reached out to me to ask me whether I want the old seats or not. Tesla silently hoped that I will not notice the seats change at the time of pick up and later on when I have the car and notice the old seats they will simply tell me that those are going to be replaced.
I was disgusted and I couldn't believe Tesla is pulling such thing on me.

- Next day I informed the DS that from now on they should communicate with my lawyer on this.

- Few days later after we haven't heard anything we sent out a demand letter.

- After two weeks since we have sent the letter my lawyer received a phone call from Jonathan Chang - Deputy Counsel. They discussed possible options of how to resolve the matter.

- Few hours later Jonathan Chang emailed my lawyer a response letter.
In that letter he skipped one of the options he provided on the phone and left me no choice.

On top of that he is accusing me, that because I requested to get tax credits in 2014 they rushed building the car for me and because of that the Next Generation Seats were not available to be built in my car.
Well this is simply not true and all fact and details about all my dealings with Tesla are explained above and confirm that.
It's really beyond any belief how Tesla treats their customers and the questionable actions of the company.

By reading the Tesla forums such as Tesla Motors Club it turns out that Tesla disappointed many other customers with the seats issue etc and it seems I am not alone, but following my dealings with Tesla since June 2014 you can imagine, that Tesla has become a nightmare for me and my family.

Now my family doesn't have a car, my payments for the car that I don't have are due, I have to pay lawyers to deal with Tesla and Tesla's legal counsel is falsely accusing me that the whole situation is my fault and the Tesla offer is to simply reverse the transaction which will cause another loss to me due to the fact that I will not be able to claim the tax credits that were calculated in the Trade in value.

So, 6 months of dealings with Tesla, I'm left without a car, with over $25k in cash loss for the trade and installing the wall connector at home, legal fees, wasting my valuable time etc ..

I believe in the Tesla technology, but I do NOT believe in their business practices and everyone that is considering to buy a car from Tesla, should think very carefully whether is worth it to take the risk and go through hell by paying a small fortune for it.

ian t.wa.us | 26 January 2015

What a nightmare! I agree Tesla doesn't seem to have it's customer service up to par with the quality of it's cars. Sorry to hear you've had such an awful experience.

Captain_Zap | 26 January 2015

@kjetil.sandal

It was resolved on page one just a few posts after the original.

Jonathangarner | 28 January 2015

I think in due time and in states that allow them, Tesla will have enough stores/dealerships to handle delivery and payment. Not Franchises but Tesla owned locations. I expect that the number of locations will increase as production grows and hopefully at a commensurate pace.

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