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MODEL S - Sport 0-60 in 4.4s? AWD options?

MODEL S - Sport 0-60 in 4.4s? AWD options?

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2009-design/reinventing-the-driving-experi...

Check out 16 minutes 41 seconds in.. there is a slideshow that shows some Model S Goals...

Standard Model S: 0-60 5.7
Model S Sport: 0-60 4.4

All Wheel Drive Options.

IF THIS IS THE CASE.. I think i'll be holding out till the Sport is out.... 4.4 is 2011 BMW M5 territory!

Let's see.... OR they can surprise us all by saying, the SIGNATURE EDITIONS are the SPORT :D hahah. a guy can dream.

michiganmodels | 24 March 2011

The video was from May 2009. I do not believe there will be a sport version anytime soon (if ever).

Volker.Berlin | 25 March 2011

I do not believe there will be a sport version anytime soon (if ever).

Can you explain what makes you believe this? BTW, it is my belief that most people who are following this forum read most of the threads and therefore it is probably no added value to repeat the same post/link in multiple threads.

michiganmodels | 25 March 2011

Volker EU#P1 - I had a discussion with my Tesla rep regarding a sport version. According to him, there will not be a Sport version (4.4 0-60) anytime soon. I apologize to you and anyone for the inconvenience of duplicative postings.

Nicu | 25 March 2011

Of course Tesla does not want to tell about the sport version of the Model S : they have to sell the last 800 Roadsters that will be produced this year. But if you listen to the earnings report conference, Elon says he's very happy with the progress on the sports version. What's the link to the roadster ? Well, 4.4s may be conservative !
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/battery-weight-vs-acceleration-t...

Volker.Berlin | 29 August 2011

It's in the works... :-) They lived up to the original plan so far, thus it seems not unlikely that they will also meet the announced 4.4 number.

MUSK: You know, the Model S sedan has a range of up to 300 miles, pure electric. It's got - and there's a performance version that's as - (unintelligible) beat a BMW M5 around a track.
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/19/139790024/spacex-craft-to-head-to-space-st...

David M. | 30 August 2011

You know, 5.6 seconds is pretty damn fast. It's equivalent to a big V6 or a small V8 in a car much lighter than the Model S. Something like a 4.3L in a medium weight car. It will be extremely responsive. More so than roughly 95% of all cars on the road.

I have owned BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus, Volvos, Nissan Maxima, etc. It will have faster acceleration than any of these cars that I have owned, and that is more than adequate. With passengers, you should still get 0-60 in about 6 seconds - quietly!

Heck, it will even beat my Lexus SC430 with the 4.3L V8. Oh yeah, I will be satisfied.

MTriantafelow | 30 August 2011

Agreed. There will be a sport, but I bet they are trying to keep it under wraps because they still have a bunch of Roadsters to sell.

jfeister | 8 September 2011

I think it's hard to say for sure. Musk is a dreamer. I like him, and as an engineer and budding entrepreneur I admire him, but I'm not so sure about how reliable his predictions are. I once had a Tesla sales rep tell me the Model X would start at $30,000, which according to the last quarterly report is not true.

I wouldn't take anything these folks say too seriously until there's an official press release from Tesla. This is a young company developing cutting edge technology that is moving very quickly. No doubt things are changing constantly. Of course that doesn't mean we can't hope!

MTriantafelow | 8 September 2011

I think there is a simple explanation for the sales rep telling you that the Model X would cost $30,000: they were mistaken. I've actually heard (and continue to hear) that misstated frequently.

I think the reason is because Musk/Tesla have always said that their 3rd generation car would be in the $30k range. The confusion comes in because the Model X is Tesla's 3rd vehicle, but the Model X isn't a 3rd generation vehicle, its a 2nd gen vehicle (same core tech as the Model S). People often get lost in the subtlety of that difference. There will be many other "top hats" on top of the Model S before we get our 3rd gen vehicle (in fact they plan on delivering a new model every year)...and they will likely all be in the $50k range like the Model S.

All that we know about the mass market, $30k car is that it is code named BlueStar, that it will likely be a subcompact type vehicle (like the Honda Fit perhaps) or small hatchback (like the Ford Focus), and that it will go into production in or around 2015.

I've followed Tesla very, very closely, and their 'official' message on that has always been consistent.

Timo | 8 September 2011

Ford Focus -like car would be perfect for me, expensive of otherwise, so I hope that that type car is the one they plan for "affordable" 3th gen car. I don't need big car like Model S, and Roadster -like car is basically a toy for fun rides with very little space for anything else.

David M. | 9 September 2011

I would not expect the Model X to have range options (different batteries), given it's size and weight. By 2015, Tesla's 160 mile battery will probably be very affordable, and will allow Tesla to obtain a $30K price point. All of the competition will still be at 100 mile range or less, so a 160 mile battery in a $30K car would still be desirable, and certainly adequate for a commuting vehicle.

jkirkebo | 10 September 2011

Not sure the competition will still be at 100 miles in 2015. Nissans next gen batteries are said to be ready then and should offer nearly double the energy density. So we might have a $30k 180-mile Leaf in 2015-2016.

Ramon123 | 10 September 2011

To 60 times significantly under 6 will beat 99% of what's out there

Schlermie | 11 September 2011

I'd really like to get the Sport version, but I'm struggling to keep my current car alive for another year so I can catch the initial release of the S. I don't think my current car will hold out an additional year for the Sport version. Plus, another $10,000 for the Sport would probably push outside my price range. Going 0-60 in 5.5s is similar to acceleration of a 5.7L 8-cylinder Trans-Am. I can't really complain about that. (But I still want the Sport.)

MTriantafelow | 12 September 2011

@Schlermie,
I'm with you. Maybe my second Model S can be a sport version. In like 5 years or so.

Timo | 12 September 2011

I don't think it takes five years for sport version. More like immediately after last Roadster has left the storage to someones garage. When you don't need to design platform it only takes few engineering changes to create sport version with enough ooomph to make million dollar ICE sport cars envy.

Ulexus | 15 September 2011

@Schlermie,

Likewise--- I just had to bully the insurance company into not totaling my current car in order to hold out until next year for the Tesla. It's got so little residual value right now that a fender bender is enough to have the insurance company declare it a total loss.

The very thought of delaying longer for a Sport is enough to make me shiver. In fact, that's the main reason I'm considering upgrading to a Signature.

MTriantafelow | 15 September 2011

I wasn't saying that Tesla wouldn't have a Sport version for 5 more years. I was saying I wouldn't have a Sport version until my next car after the Model S (in maybe 5 years).

Timo | 15 September 2011

:-), I missed that "my" in your sentence. So you drive the battery in a point where it is closing its expiration date, then instead of swapping the battery pack you swap the entire car? Or do you buy another (and swap that battery pack to new one)?

MTriantafelow | 16 September 2011

My hypothetical didn't really have anything to do with the battery pack's expected life. That's about how long I think it'll take for me to be ready for a new car, and a 2018 Model S Sport sounds like it would do nicely.

MTriantafelow | 16 September 2011

That was supposed to read "my hypothetical timeline". Really need an edit button on these forums.

Nicu | 16 September 2011

The sport version will mostly identical to the standard one, just an extra motor + PEM in between the front wheels, and obviously some other tweaks (like new cells, better cooling etc.). Most probably it will be out 6 months after the last Roadster is sold so the buyers do not have any remorse. Expect about $20+k price hike as it will be the most powerful and the quickest sedan out there.

perbakken | 16 September 2011

Should like to know if this car will ever hit the roads: http://www.rimac-automobili.com/concept_one/introduction-20
A Model S Sport would be like a snail compared to this one.

Volker.Berlin | 16 September 2011

@Nicu, your posts sounds surprisingly confident. Can you provide any sources or other motivation for your assertions?

Volker.Berlin | 16 September 2011

"post", singular. We need that edit button.

Nicu | 16 September 2011

It is probably a bit too confident.

4 months ago (if my memory does not play games on me), Elon was happy as little boy about the Sport progress during the earnings report. In August, it became "one of the secret projects". How could you sell $100k+ Roadsters when a cheaper sedan will be very close in performance soon ? Make it a "secret project", that's how. In order to not "screw" those early adopters, make it a while before talking about the BEAST - hey tech evolves fast, that's the life of an early adopter after all.

I think at some point they also hinted to a future 4WD version.

You have probably seen how big the motor + PEM + gearbox are, just a tube in between the rear wheels. How would you implement a 4WD Model S ? Would you add 50-100kg of rotating iron, differentials etc. Where would that pass from back to front ? Over the battery pack ? If so, the chassis would have to be modified. Under the pack ? No way. Why not just pass some electric cables and duplicate the back tube (+ extra software, cooling etc.) ? Well, it becomes much more expensive. No problem, hike the price ... hmmm, $20k for 4WD ??? Hey, you get "for free" (once you pay for the very expensive 4WD) double motor power, double torque, double traction (4 times the surface contact to the road). If the battery will provide enough juice, many Ferraris will be ashamed by that creature. Why not do it, it would be the admiral ship, the highest standard of sedan performance that others would need many years to come close to. Even if they sell few cars like that at a loss, the free advertising would be gigantic.

Nicu | 16 September 2011

4 wheels is 2 times the contact surface :D

Timo | 17 September 2011

@perbakken, I wouldn't be so sure that Model S loses that much compared to that beast. Model S already has 300+kW engine, two of them makes it 600+kW which is 800+HP. Rimac gets 1088HP out of its four engines.

Model S sport probably is slower, but so is Ferrari 599 GTO compared to Bugatti Veyron, and price difference between two is even greater with Rimac and Model S.

Note that Model S Sport would win that Ferrari 599 GTO in power/weight ratio, so expect to see one serious road-rocket with relatively low price.

perbakken | 17 September 2011

@Timo, yes, you are right. I exaggerated a little when saying that the (possible) Model S Sport is a "snail" compared to the (even less possible) Rimac. But when talking about such extreme performances (0 - 100 km/h in 2.8 sec is really extreme), just a small change needs even more extreme (and expensive) improvements.
But, that said - if Tesla should make a sports version of the Model S and make it available within the next couple of years, I would very much like to change my reservation for the Model S Signature into a Model S Sport!
What will happen with the power consumption when using two engines compared to one? Will such a car get a reduced mileage even if you drive it in the same way as with only one engine? The weight of the car will have increased, but are there also other things to take into account?

Timo | 17 September 2011

Probably not much. Weight difference is quite small, engine + reduction gear + PEM module is quite small. There are also some wiring and shafts to tires, but still it doesn't increase weight much. I think in good smooth tarmac two-wheel drive is better, but in bad roads you might actually get better mileage from four-wheel drive (easier to drive when all wheels do the work).

I wonder if Rimac-like four engine approach is possible. That allows "torque vectoring" as they call it to help handling and that might make huge difference in fast cornering and slippery roads compared to ICE cars.

perbakken | 17 September 2011

What I quite don't understand is how they can get a 600 km mileage with the Rimac using approximately the same battery capacity (93 kwh) as the Model S. I see that they use LiFePO4 batteries, but are these batteries lighter/kwh (higher energy density) than the Li-ion batteries in the Model S, or is the car itself significantly lighter than the Model S?

Timo | 17 September 2011

It costs over million, so they have probably used a lot of carbon fiber and other exotic materials in it to make it light. It also looks to have very low CdA (A in particular, it is low and quite small car, not much bigger than Roadster), so in higher speeds it probably causes less drag.

I just noticed that it doesn't have rear window at all. I'm not sure how legal that is in passenger cars. It's important to see what is happening behind you so that you don't change lines in front of some fast-moving 18-wheeler. It certainly wont be easy to park using only those tiny side-mirrors, so it probably has backup camera. If it doesn't then I think that's illegal here (at least it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is).

One other thing: it seems to have odd seatbelt arrangement, I see a seatbelt buckle in the door. One of the concept drawings shows five-point seat belts. It would be nice to see that with more detailed explanations what to expect (dimensions, interior designs etc. in more engineering point of view).

This also sets a kind of bar for next generation Roadster. It needs to be a bit more than current generation Roadster to make people think its worth buying.

Ramon123 | 4 November 2011

As Elon has often said, all that has gone before is preamble to the
Bluestar, what he hopes will be the first affordable EV - presumably less than $30K, and CAPABLE, like the Model S, of taking trips.
He has also said that its appearance depends upon the achievement of a much more affordable battery on the market. Therefore, it is quite impossible to predict exactly when it will appear in showrooms.
Elon has made guesses, based on previous price reductions of batteries, but they are only guesses.