Where the Model S Fails

Where the Model S Fails

I took my test drive of a Model S today in Portland, Oregon. As a long-time BMW owner, I was very pleased that the ride and handling (with steering in Sport mode), was very similar to a 5-series. Additionally, these are beautiful cars in person and will turn lots of heads. Unless you get the no-touch entry with the Tech Package, however, you will be forever looking at smudgy door handles as the chrome practically shows your fingerprint every time you touch it to reveal the handle. The Tesla guys were constantly cleaning them today - please make the no-touch reveal standard!

Unfortunately the Tesla design team dropped the ball on the dash and console, as in person it looks cheap and unrefined. The dash stitching just looks out of place, and there's too much brushed chrome trim, some of which intersects other pieces by one piece being on top of the other (never seen that in a car). Those of you who are used to real wood like on a BMW or Mercedes will be disappointed, as none of the "wood" looks real in any way. The Piano Black is the only trim that doesn't look cheap to me (my opinion). The huge rectangular touchscreen and it's straight edges conflict with the mish-mash of dashboard curves, which is the opposite of the exterior, which is a smooth blend of graceful curves.

I'm still buying a Model S, however, as there's so much to like about this car, and it's truely revolutionary. I just wish the Tesla design team had copied the interior of a 5-series or X5, which are stylish, functional, and cohesive, with great attention to detail. In person, the exterior styling exemplifies the breakthrough product that is the Model S, the interior simply does not.

vouteb | 23 July 2012

As a European buyer this is my biggest concern, but will wait to see it 'in person' whenever that is...

steven.maes | 23 July 2012

+1 Vouteb
My concern as well...

Volker.Berlin | 23 July 2012

As another European buyer, I keep telling myself two things:

First, the German brands are known to "soften" their suspension and steering for the American market. German cars that are adjusted to accommodate American expectations are said to be still relatively "stiff" when compared to American brands, but less so than the same cars when tuned for the German market. I'm not sure to which extent this is actually true, but it seems plausible to me.

Along the same lines, I expect Tesla to recalibrate suspension, steering and possibly even regen for the cars sold over here, to accommodate German expectations. As Europeans, we will only really see how it all works out when test-driving cars that are fully homologated and fine-tuned for our respective markets.

Second, since it is not unlikely that we will have to wait almost another year to take delivery of our cars, and since particularly German buyers may be even more critical than Americans in their comparison of the Model S to competitively priced German cars (you know, we don't give so much for "buying American" over here...), we may actually get something like a Model S 1.5 or 2.0. Think interior finish, power-folding mirrors, proximity sensors, maybe even adaptive cruise control...

(Full disclosure: This is entirely speculative on my part. I am long TSLA. I'm prefer BMW whenever I have a choice at the car rental.)

steven.maes | 23 July 2012

Volker, I agree with what you are saying.

If you look at the American cars that are imported into Europe, they are all "adjusted" to the european legislation. But this is all regarding to lights, blinkers, suspension etc.
I am sure that Tesla will have to do the same thing, as long as they didn't already thought about it and made a car suitable for the entire world...

The one thing that keeps bugging me is the interieur finish. I don't really care about compartments etc. The one thing I do care about is the quality of the interieur. Like mentioned before, this could be a show stopper for me.

But then again, I am sure that at the time we are able to order the car, there will be some changes made to it. The pain of waiting will return in a gain of a better car.

We will see it when they get here and make dicisions at that time...

Norbert.Vienna | 23 July 2012

@ Volker Berlin and @ stephan.maes
I fully agree the Model S is very nice but the point
interior design ist a very critcal point here in Europe
I looked the other day to Jaguar xf and the Mercedes GLS
the interior design is remarkable fine tuned
if you look at the pictures of the Model S
after the test drives how the seats looklook like -- terrible and outworn
if this happens to me here as a customer of Mercedes or Jaguar it is matter of returning the car and ask for exchange of the seats
I was in Geneva in spring and the first thing I said to them
please do something to the interior design it looks very cheap

steven.maes | 23 July 2012

Norbert.Vienna, you described my fear... I don't want to return the car to exchange the seats. I will buy another car instead ...
I will see in October/November (then the S should be homologated in Europe I've been told).

vouteb | 23 July 2012

@Volker Berlin: So far you have been right, lets hope your record continues.

PS: Why don t we see any thread from regular new owners experiences?

Make new thread: New owners experiences?


Ad van der Meer | 23 July 2012

While I think you are all right that the standard of the interior is not on par with the rest of the car, I am not too concerned with it. I am pretty sure Elon et al. are not visually impaired and will make this a point they will work on as soon as they have the car part right first, which is forward motion, steering and braking.
Tesla may have promised the best car in the world and that was a bit (?) ambitious, but to accept that as a fact for the first car Tesla makes is a little naive. I know I will get an imperfect car that will be better in the 2.0 version. I need to accept that or wait for the 2.0 version. Like hell I won´t!!

Getting Amped Again | 23 July 2012

I agree, I'm following through on my purchase also. It just looks like Tesla spent all their industrial design budget on the exterior, and viewed the interior as an afterthought, with the primary goal being "let's see how big a touchscreen we can shoehorn in there."

I hope the design decisions aren't being made by engineers and financial guys/gals - it needs a talented automotive industrial designer's touch in the worst way. My post is just a plea for that.

Soflauthor | 23 July 2012

The conversation about the Model S interior and its many failings has been going on for almost a year on this forum and at TMC. Tesla has had ample time to digest hundreds of comments about fit, finish, materials, design flow, the center channel area, door storage, cup holders -- you name it.

I think those who believe that TM will make substantial mods to the interior before release of production vehicles are sadly mistaken -- maybe a few tweaks, but overall, what we now see is what we're getting. Version 2.0 will be different, I suspect, because the current interior will cause some buyers to walk away.

IMO, Model S V1.0 will have a minimalist interior in many ways -- design, materials, storage. I'm doing what I can to suggest alternatives, but it's really TM that should be responding to this issue with concrete options -- and soon.

BTW, it looks like TM removed the thread I started on the CCI. I wonder why?

Aleksandyr | 23 July 2012

The interior is minimalist, I think it works well with the car. I agree it could be more refined like a BMW or the likes, but I loved driving this car and the touch screen will be upgradable with new features as it goes. I doubt the upgrade to the OS will includes fees other than standard maintenance. (I could be wrong I guess) When I sat in the car it felt very comfortable. How much do you really need wood? I do concede that I will be jealous of the 2.0 buyers, but I won't wait either.

Volker.Berlin | 23 July 2012

PS: Why don t we see any thread from regular new owners experiences? Make new thread: New owners experiences? (vouteb)

The only reason I can think of is that nobody on this forum as taken delivery yet. I'm still thinking there might be something to the rumor that slow ramp-up is even slower than planned -- for whatever reason. We'll learn on Wednesday, I guess.

I don't think that opening a new thread makes any difference... If anybody who knows about these forums takes delivery, I bet they will post more or less immediately.

I think those who believe that TM will make substantial mods to the interior before release of production vehicles are sadly mistaken -- maybe a few tweaks, but overall, what we now see is what we're getting. (Soflauthor)

I completely agree with this assessment, for US deliveries. It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but given that European delivery starts several months later, and Tesla do not have the "buying American" bonus over here but are rather competing with the German premium brands in their own home market, I believe they have to do something about the interior finish (not necessarily center console, let alone the rest of the design; just materials and build quality).

Sudre_ | 23 July 2012

Tesla only HAS to do something about the interior when they get thru the orders they have. They will worry about the Germany car manufacturers when the Germans figure out how to make an electric car go over 100 miles per charge at Tesla's price point. They will sell out next years reserve before the end of the year at the rate things are going..... and I think that will include the cancellations because the car is missing 15 cup holders.

Everyone wants this perfect car right out the door. I admit it would be great but they are competing in the Electric car industry not the ICE. While I will admit it would be great to have some refinements, I am buying the car because it is a BEV with real range. I would never buy a BMW or any other German car because, in my opinion, they are not worth the money. To me a car is a machine that takes me from point A to B. My cheap Saturn has done that wonderfully for 12 years and I would have bought a BEV back then if it was available. Heck I would have bought a cheaper Saturn back then but I was buying in a rush and bought what was on the lot.

Don't get me wrong. I would turn down door pockets and cup holders along with center storage and a whole plethora of interior options but in no way is it a deal breaker. It's not even a deal slow down for me. There is NO other BEV that has the range of the Tesla so it is the only car I can buy. Supply and Demand.

For those who are buying the S 1.0 for any other reason besides it is a BEV?.... I have no clue why they would be spending the BEV premium price. I hate saying it but go buy the German car of luxury. Version 2.0 will be much better and they can get an S then.

Feel free to bring up the lack of interior features so Elon has a good idea of what the average public requires. I am just explaining why it was not a priority for Tesla to make the interior the Kings Thrown, in my opinion. I am betting about 30K or more customers will over look the interior which gives Tesla a few years.

Sudre_ | 23 July 2012

I would NOT turn down.....

wish we had an edit feature.

Volker.Berlin | 23 July 2012

Sudre_, I understand what you're saying and I have to agree. I admit that I have a reservation for the Model S because there is just no alternative on the market right now, and I'll buy it regardless of interior (I have said that before, just in case someone thinks I'm schizophrenic here in the light of my above post).

But that doesn't change the fact that I hope that the interior gets on par with ICE sedans in the same price range at some point (the sooner the better). Part of the Model S is its range, but another and I think equally important part is that its an electric car that you can be proud of regardless who you peer group is. As long as the interior has anything embarrassing about it, the Model S does not have completed its mission.

Volker.Berlin | 23 July 2012's an electric car...

wish we had an edit feature.

ThomasN | 23 July 2012

By real wood, I assume you mean some kind of burl with a deep gloss. It's a great look, but IMO would look out of place with the lines of the model S. Given a choice between a burl and the current offerings, my order of preference would be lacewood, obeche matte, CF, obeche gloss, burl, and lastly the piano black. Different strokes I guess, but to me it would be like putting an ornately carved gold leaf frame on a Mondrian.

Brian H | 23 July 2012

Sudre_ | July 23, 2012
I would NOT turn down.....
wish we had an edit feature.

Not to mention "King's Thrown Throne".

rd2 | 23 July 2012

ThomasN - I totally agree that burl wood would look totally out of place in the Model S. I think the interior wood choices are well-suited to the spirit and styling of this car.

I am curious as to what Norbert.Vienna is saying "if you look at the pictures of the Model S
after the test drives how the seats looklook like -- terrible and outworn"

Really? I did not experience that at all. I have 2 BMWs and my impression of the leather quality in the Model S was that it was actually superior to my BMWs (a 2002 and 2008 3-series). And I certainly did notice any 'outworn' qualities to it. Fit and finish is not as good as Audi, but neither is BMW.

I think people should actually SIT in this car before making qualitative judgements based only on 'pictures'.

That being said, the interior will continue to evolve and improve with each iteration of Model S. But TM will never be able to please every customer, nor should they aspire to. For the early adopters, TM is building a revolutionary vehicle and they are creating their own brand quality based off of performance and practicality first, with luxury a close second. Yes, the luxury component will get better and better, but that is certainly not, and never will be, the primary reason to buy this car.

As Sudre said, if a luxury interior is vouteb's "biggest concern" (which is hard to believe), don't buy the Model S v1.0. Buy it because it will be the transformative vehicle of our era, the most practical car for your lifestyle, the most digitally advanced car in existence. That is what sets it apart.

Brian H | 23 July 2012

Agg. Started me off on a wee homonym stumble rumble:

The King and the Witch

"A witch?", said the King. "Which witch? I can never tell which witch is which!"

Before he could think, he had thrown his crown at the crone, and tumbled from his throne. He saw the crone had grown fair and began to groan, knowing he wouldn't fare well.




Getting Amped Again | 23 July 2012

Sudre_ If you think I am talking about additional cup holders then we are on different ends of the automotive buying spectrum.

Andrew18 | 23 July 2012

I think people have gotten too focused on keeping food and drink, as well as too much junk in their cars. Tesla did not want this car to be your den; I have come to realize this car wants to have only one purpose in life- get you there like no other ICE could ever hope. Time to let a car be a car!

Tiebreaker | 23 July 2012

Brian H - The grammar police police will throw you in the "too-much-policing" jail.

brianman | 23 July 2012

"Not to mention" cancelled out by mentioning it...

Leofingal | 23 July 2012

In my opinion, the wood does not need to be there at all, but unfortunately the piano black is glossy and asking for fingerprints, so not a real option. With that exception, both the car I drove, and the static model we had were fine with regards to fit and finish - (Red non-sig with pano roof, and brown non sig without pano roof in NY this past weekend).

I am a pretty strong minimalist, my 2001 Audi TT had nearly the perfect interior if it weren't for the uncomfortable seats, and terrible cupholders. I actually do genuinely like the stark interior, and will not miss any of the creature features most are asking for (with the exception of better cupholders!). If I could have brushed aluminum where the wood is, I'd be satisfied with that.

I think most people here that are upset about the interior are a bit more like the "old luxury" crowd referred to in the Audi ads (fur coats etc.). This is genuinely a matter of taste, and Elon has very minimalist modern taste, so I am fairly certain you will not convince him that you "need" lots of buttons and crapholders.

I'm pretty sure you'd have a similar challenge convincing Steve Jobs that you need a keyboard on your phone.

brianman | 23 July 2012


BYT | 23 July 2012

I am already locked in contract for my signature but felt this link was appropriate to share here:

brianman | 23 July 2012

Some of these 7 are actually incorrect, as I understand things.

Further, if these are the 7 top complaints then Tesla really has created a near perfect vehicle.

BYT | 23 July 2012

This is a very public publication and felt it was important to share with all of you.

brianman | 23 July 2012

Definitely, BYT. Thanks for sharing.

Timo | 23 July 2012

I need to point out the harsh reality that Model S can't be comparable to Jaguar or even high-end Mercedes for luxury. In order to make profit Model S just plain has to have something mundane in it, because that large battery you have in it costs money. A lot of money. You are not buying cat that costs $77400 + options, you are buying $43400 car with 34k battery + options.

The fact that Model S has that great acceleration, smoothness, handling and quietness is byproduct of superiority of electric drivetrain, but there is a price for that superiority, and that shows in other parts of the car. While I agree that interior design should be nice, I'm not expecting anything close to Jaguar, more like middle-class BMW or Audi for it. Base car has to be very basic and quite ordinary.

So, people, lower your expectations for luxury, enjoy the superiority of the drivetrain.

BYT | 23 July 2012

The most luxerous car I ever drove was a 2003 Honda Accord V6 EX w/Leather. My expectations are high because I am spending over $65k + $35k in battery for a grand total of $110k. But based on previous experience, I shouldn't be that hard to please. I loved, and I mean LOVED driving the Model S and it wasn't even the performance version that I ordered. My biggest concern is that it can last the 10 to 15 years it takes for me to justify the costs. One of the reasons I was surprised to see the warantee dropped from 5 years to 4 on all but the battery which is 8 years. I am all in for the Model S and can't wait for it, but would wait if it meant it still needed to pass Elon's stamp of approval.

steven.maes | 23 July 2012

Timo, I don't fully agree with you.
I agree with the part of the driving experience. I don't agree to lower my expectations. If you say you are building the best car in the world that can compete with certain brands, then the least I would expect is the interieur to be comparable with a middle-class competitor. And I am not talking about the luxury of a high-end Merc or Jag. From the pictures and films it seems that the interieur is kind of ok. I worry about the seats.

Brian H | 24 July 2012

You attempting to steal rights to Leo's word?

perfect! Now, find soflauthor and sell him rights to it! "The SOFL 'Stuff-It Tesla Crapholder'!" It will make millyuns, I tells ya!

Getting Amped Again | 24 July 2012

As the original poster, it has been interesting reading the various responses to my post. Some people really are just interested in having efficient, safe and eco-friendly transportation from point A to point B. There is also a population of car owners out there however, that really enjoy the driving experience and are willing to pay for that experience.

Tesla describes the Model S "as the world's first premium electric sedan", and by that I assumed they are hoping to compete with the other "premium" sedans on the market. The point of my post is that Tesla has an opportunity to make me a lifelong customer, as I'm 100% sure I will be completing my Model S purchase (#8756 :( ). However, they surely know that the Big Boys are just looking at their product as a way to test the market for electric cars, and if the Model S proves a market exists, competition will come. If I could buy an all-electric BMW 5-series for $65,000 today I would do so in a heartbeat (sorry guys). I've owned six new BMW's and I know from experience I will be completely pleased with the styling, performance, comfort and reliablity of any BMW model. BMW has succeeded in making me a lifelong customer.

Sit in any new BMW, even a $40,000 one, and you'll see that the Model S interior looks of lower quality and refinement (again this is my opinion). However, I feel the exterior styling of the Model S equals that of any car on the road, and this is my point. To make me a lifelong Tesla customer, you're going to have to make me willing to walk away from the company that arguably makes the best cars on the planet, and to do that, you're going to have to make a car that completes on every level. And in my opinion, the interior of the Model S is not competitive.

I'm buying a Model S because there's nothing like it out there. But to make me a lifelong customer, you're going to have to give me the BMW car ownership experience. I know you A-to-B'ers think I'm a snob or whatever, but I guarantee you there are a lot of potential buyers out there that think like me.

I look forward to owning my Model S and wish I had a lower reservation number. Thanks for all the comments.

steven.maes | 24 July 2012

+1 RickS_8756

Sudre_ | 24 July 2012

RickS, you are telling me you would buy a BMW-5 that only gets <100 miles to the charge for $65k? Because NO other car manufacture has figured out how to increase that range without Tesla's help.

If they use the ~$40k Tesla battery pack for a real range then your BMW-5 will be about $80,000 not $65,000.

I like how so many people assume another car maker can just turn their car into a Tesla range runner for no additional cost. All of those other manufacturers are not doing it because they want Tesla to make all the money I guess.

I am sure if Tesla is hugely successful BMW will flip a switch and suddenly be able to make high range BEVs over night. (NOT)
Actually they may call Tesla and ask for a skateboard, then BMW will be able to do it but not for $40-65k. 40k is probably what Tesla will charge for the skateboard.

rd2 | 24 July 2012

First of all, not ALL BMW owners agree with RickS. I have 2 BMWs and I don't really agree that they make the 'best cars on the planet', and I definitely disagree with the implication that the BMW ownership experience is so good. Especially considering the cost of regular maintenance and repairs on their cars past 4 years. BMW could be a LOT better in terms of the ownership experience.

Second, I think the Model S interior is much nicer, and better crafted, than my 2002 3-series, and just below the interior of my 2008 3-series. Can't speak to the quality of any model after that, but I stress that quality can be a very subjective issue as well.

BTW - wasn't it BMW who held out for so long on adding more cupholders (and still can't get them right), who had the worst iDrive interface imaginable, and who worked the minimalist interior to perfection? I would certainly not choose BMW as the shining example of luxurious interiors.

In the end, you have to be happy with your purchase. If you're going to sweat things like power folding mirrors, burl wood, and cupholders, chances are you won't be happy with Model S v1.0. | 24 July 2012

+1 rd2
As a former BMW 3 series owner it seems to me every car is a +/- proposition. Now if Tesla gets into the motorcycle business they may pull me away from my BMW r1200gs...

Mel. | 24 July 2012

Ricks 8756, you really confused me I have never had wood in my bmw's .now I have seen wood in toyota,s and Kia , but not in a refined BMW

foto | 24 July 2012

I own a CLS550 and while I do have a lot of good things to say about the exterior and interior quality I must say that I have ownership experience problems and issues with the entertainment center (can you imagine no touch screen in this age).

Ok, so the Model S entertainment center seems to be going in the right direction (audiophiles are complaining about quality etc), ownership experience could turn out to be great (we don't know that yet) but the quality of the interior is still in question. People can have an overall positive satisfaction but that does not change the fact that independently the interior of the Model S that most of us have seen is not anywhere where it should be. I don't think Elon would argue that.

@Sudre, If they use the ~$40k Tesla battery pack for a real range then your BMW-5 will be about $80,000 not $65,000.

It would be a big mistake to think that if Tesla sold its battery pack to BMW, MB, Porsche etc and Tesla maintained Model S' current interior quality with the current price tag that over 60% of current reservation holders would not swarm to those other auto makers whatever their individual ownership experience has been.

There's an adage in my culture that says even though we cry, we still should see hence whatever the bias for Tesla, we should still be able to offer constructive and corrective criticism.

I love the Model S, I love the great work that Tesla is doing (has done), I hope they do well and I hope that they keep advancing to be ahead of the revolution.

TikiMan | 25 July 2012

I agree somewhat. I don't love the interior on the S; however, compared to many of the future concept cars in the same (or higher) category, I hate their interiors even more!

For instance...

gjunky | 25 July 2012

Volker.Berlin | JULY 23, 2012
As another European buyer, I keep telling myself two things:

First, the German brands are known to "soften" their suspension and steering for the American market. German cars that are adjusted to accommodate American expectations are said to be still relatively "stiff" when compared to American brands, but less so than the same cars when tuned for the German market. I'm not sure to which extent this is actually true, but it seems plausible to me.

@Volker: I have driven German cars in the US and in Germany (and own a VW GTI in the US) but I don't think you will have any issues with the suspension. The suspension feels very soft, especially for a German car BUT the low center of gravity completely negates all the poor handling of most soft suspensions. I know it has been said before but it is really hard to explain the feel of the car without driving it. It really is the best of both worlds: Smooth movement over bumps and poor road surfaces and great cornering.

The only issue in the handling I see might be an issue for some people here and probably more people in Europe is the lack of feedback in the steering wheel. Surprisingly, I had the same feeling when driving a MB E-class in Germany last year. I think TM might be able to tweak this in software a bit.

Overall though, I think you will be happily surprised by how the car drives.

gjunky | 25 July 2012

Need edit feature. It looks like Italics don't span new lines...

Brian H | 25 July 2012

all tags close with each paragraph break. They span ordinary linebreaks, but not double breaks or para. A really irritating "feature".

JackA | 25 July 2012

Charlene and I both appreciated the clean, sleek, functional interior of the Model S we drove at the Seattle event. I am sure that I will use the most regen available so will not be changing it and certainly do not believe a "idle creep" mode is of any advantage at all.

pilotSteve | 25 July 2012

junky wrote: The suspension feels very soft, especially for a German car BUT the low center of gravity completely negates all the poor handling of most soft suspensions. I know it has been said before but it is really hard to explain the feel of the car without driving it. It really is the best of both worlds: Smooth movement over bumps and poor road surfaces and great cornering.

@VolkerB - my daily driver for the past 6 years has been a BMW 550i w sport suspension. Great! Great engine! However I found in my test drive that the Model-S suspension system provided a ride that I felt was 'sportier' yet 'smoother' than my prized BMW. My wife especially enjoyed the Model-S handling and ride (from the back seat) and repeatedly pointed how much she is looking forward to my new daily driver.... from her point of view based on the smoother ride! Will be interested to hear what you think when you get your test drive.

Volker.Berlin | 25 July 2012

gjunky, pilotSteve, thank you very much for sharing your impressions, and particularly for putting those impressions into some context of your daily driving experience. I starving for tidbits like that! And definitely I'm glad to hear that the Model S' suspension compares favorably to that of a 550i. I'm not surprised that it is much softer than that of a GTI; actually, I would have been worried if it felt anything as stiff as the GTI.

I want to set this straight, though: You seem to have the idea that I'm worried about the Model S' suspension not being sporty enough. That's not the case. My argument was that very likely the Model S gets some different "finishing" for extra-American markets, like Germany. That may include suspension settings, interior materials, option packaging, and/or some other aspects. My assumption is based on the fact that apparently that's what other brands do as well: Tweak their cars slightly differently for different markets.

My conclusion is that I take all test drive reports and early reviews, even and particularly those in the German media, with a grain of salt -- because the Model S that is currently being test-driven and reviewed is very likely not the Model S that will be delivered in Germany. I'm not saying that I think suspension is too stiff or too soft -- all I'm saying is that I hold my judgment until there are reviews of the actual configuration as it will be delivered in Germany.

jscottsanders | 25 July 2012

Weighing in on the interior of the car per @Rick's original post - having driven the Model S two weekends ago I would echo 100% the comments about the interior. It is not close to Lexus/BMW in terms of design, beauty, etc. It has its cheap looking materials, storage issues, etc. and it will not compare well to anything higher-end being driven in Europe. The word my wife even used to describe the much-touted touchscreen was "obnoxious."

That said, I found that the driving experience of the car was significantly better than anything I have driven in the class. I have not tested anything at the 100K price point so comping it against the $60K 5 series, Lexus GS, etc. The Tesla was much more fun to drive (my opinion) than those, not to mention you can be the only one you know driving a Tesla or you can join the six billion people driving those others.

Combining all of that with the EV angle and the case for the Tesla is still pretty strong. I do feel like waiting for model s 2.0 is going to be a very good call for those that are patient.

Mel. | 25 July 2012

Jscottanders, wow how can you put BMW and Lexus together, the BMW is at the top of what we have had to choose from. Now we have an. American car that is for a lot of us at the top of the automobile food chain.. Lexus does not compare to a ford or hyundai.