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Getting very poor mileage - Tesla 3 performance dual motor model

Getting very poor mileage - Tesla 3 performance dual motor model

I've owned the model 3 performance for a bit over a week now.
I live in a town home in park slope without a garage or driveway, so I do not have the luxury of plugging it in each night, instead I have to go to the nearest super charging station which usually takes an hour to 2 hrs for a full charge. (also a chadmo a few blocks from me but alas, Tesla has not released the adapter for chadmo fast charging for the model 3- so i cant use it) my commute is anywhere from 42 - 54 miles a day depending on the route and traffic. But its draining my battery over 110 miles. I put it in autopilot and chill mode last night on my way home from work. took the 19 mile route Battery drained 37 miles. I made a reservation for service, but from what I am reading this may not be a serviceable issue, but rather the fact that I chose the performance model with the 20" rims. I am getting about 51% of the 310 miles. and I loose an additional 3- 5 miles every night when the car is parked and idle. Is this normal?

MichaelB00012 | 20 February 2019

Where do you live?
What's the temp outside?

If it's cold, that's probably normal. I have a LR RWD, I get roughly 40% less efficiency now than I did in the summer / fall when I first got it. Cold sucks for your battery.

hokiegir1 | 20 February 2019

Temperature and heater usage also play a large part in efficiency, and you didn't note those in your post. If it's cold (under 30*) and you are running the heater in the car, then your usage is probably about spot on given the larger tires. Your overnight losses are normal.

CharleyBC | 20 February 2019

I agree: it’s probably cold where you are. Heat is expensive electrically.

Also, skip the full charge. It’s stressful for the battery on a routine basis. And it’s slow. As you may have noticed, the charging rate tapers off as the battery gets fuller. Maybe charge to 80 or 90%.

WantMY | 20 February 2019

Battery Li-ion battery loose some capacity at low temp, but nothing like 40%, maybe 10-15%. The most of inefficiency comes from resistive electric heaters for HVAC and to worm battery. Both would add 12kWh to the consumption making it fail to deliver range promised on your display. Every 1 kWh lost is = 4 miles of range (on Model 3) kiss good-buy.

spuzzz123 | 20 February 2019

This is the second time in two days that you've posted a complaint about battery range without posting your weather conditions. Without that, we can't tell you if you are experiencing something that's normal or not.

kevin_rf | 20 February 2019

I am assuming you are referring to Park Slope, as in Brooklyn NY.

It's been cold, I use a rule of thumb in cold weather of every 2 miles driven, I lose 3 miles of charge. That's on an all wheel drive non performance that has never gone out of chill mode in the 6 months I've owned it.

Also, Brooklyn means city driving, you don't get nearly as good mileage in stop and go traffic.

Add in, blasting the heat can eat into you mileage, I keep mine at 68 with the fan overridden to 3.

When it was warmer, in MA I was averaging 250 watt hour per mile on my morning 45 mile morning commute and 320 ish watt hour mile driving the same 45 miles home in heavier traffic. Now, I leave in the morning with 250 miles of charge and arrive home with ~100 miles of range left.

Nothing is wrong with your car, you are experiencing the worst of all worlds, cold weather, cold battery from street parking, bad traffic, heat maybe set to high, on a car with 20" tires. Summer is coming, it will get better.

kumarplocher | 20 February 2019

"Summer is coming" --> Tesla mantra

mr.mark.tarver | 20 February 2019

@Kevin RF- Yes correct Brooklyn, - Thanks for the generous input and feedback very help full

@ everyone - Thanks for your input and suggestions

@ spuzzz123 - not complaining, Just trying to ascertain what is and is not normal mileage.

@ WantMY- What is worm battery?

lilbean | 20 February 2019

warm

WantMY | 20 February 2019

"worm battery" is Tesla invention to heat up Model 3 battery without a heater, lol

spuzzz123 | 20 February 2019

Sorry Mark did not mean to imply you were complaining unnecessarily, I just couldn't offer insight without knowing that. Given that you are parking outside in Brooklyn, you are subjecting your battery to pretty cold conditions all night every night. Unfortunately it sounds pretty normal and it is probably not pleasant to own any EV in the winter without having a charge facility at home. If the sales folks did not adequately warn you, that's probably on them. Are there any opportunities for you to charge while at work? Any errands that you run (gym, shopping, etc) where you could find some level 2 chargers while you are out and about? It's more about the convenience factor than cost, as you are having to drive somewhere and wait to charge quite frequently. Again, it will get better in the spring, but not sure how else to advise you. Your choice in the performance model is taking a little away from you but nowhere near what the weather conditions are doing. I wish I had waited for the performance model myself, so enjoy that aspect of your car until you can find a charging solution. Good luck!

spuzzz123 | 20 February 2019

Oh one more thing...supercharging. When your battery is cold, it takes significantly longer to supercharge. So if you can charge close to home immediately after your 50 mile commute, that might go much faster than charging before the bulk of your commute in the morning.

CV63 | 20 February 2019

"Also, Brooklyn means city driving, you don't get nearly as good mileage in stop and go traffic."

Actually its the reverse for BEV. City driving is more efficient (regen and less drag). Highway at speeds over 60 start to really impact efficiency.

Im in NJ and can confirm with our recent weather I have been getting ~ 40% loss on my MS RWD below 30 deg (I travel mostly highway at 80mph). Hoping my new AWD M3 will do better, but it's one of the reasons I'm opting for the LR version. Cold sucks the life outta range.

Bighorn | 20 February 2019

Garaging and overnight charging timed to departure are two excellent mitigators of poor cold weather performance which unfortunately you do not have available to you.

Hal Fisher | 20 February 2019

I wonder how heating a cold motor up enough to create heat for the batteries is better than just a heating element. This heating apparently only occurs while driving. Guesstimating the batteries can’t store as much when cold due to proximity of electrons. Obviously, heating battrries only when charging would cause issues if you allow them to cool down at full charge. Ive got to believe a small heating element and constantly pumped circulation would allow lowest parasitic loss while providing normal battery range even in cold weather.

eplaskett | 20 February 2019

@CV63,

I think that what kevin_rf meant was that continuously moving at a fairly low speed yields efficient comsumption for our cars, but stop-and-go driving does not.

Comparatively speaking, it takes a lot of energy to get our cars moving from standstill or near standstill. Regen helps recover some energy, but if you're not getting above 10 mph, you're not getting any significant regen at all.

I have noticed that my worst consumption commutes have involved virtual gridlock on the interstate. I had a drive home the other night that involved a completely stopped Downtown Connector in Atlanta, and an ill-advised half-mile detour on extremely congested downtown surface streets in an attempt to get around the bottleneck. I averaged 24 mph on that drive and consumed 275 Wh/mile. It was 51 degrees and clear, with dry roads, and I don't use much heat at all under those conditions, so weather was not a factor. Over the last two months, with the same average temperature and quite a few cold, rainy days thrown into the mix, I have averaged 37 mph (hence faster than last week's stop-and-go drive) and 245 Wh/mile (more efficient).

CV63 | 20 February 2019

@eplaskett

I guess if you are in that extreme a scenario it could be detrimental. Many former ICE drivers dont realize that ICE and BEV efficiencies are not directly relatable i.e. city driving kills ICE. Was more pointing that out, but yes I concede your point on extreme stop and go. Being a native New Yorker (Staten Island) there is most certainly this opportunity for Brooklyn commutes! More often than not, actually!

Jaganjai | 20 February 2019

I drive a RWD M3 LR. Since my last recharge to 279 miles, I have driven 98 miles and the touchscreen shows I have 72 miles left. Crazy drain in CO where it is single digits lows and teens for the highs.

rxlawdude | 20 February 2019

"I have noticed that my worst consumption commutes have involved virtual gridlock on the interstate."

I have noticed the complete opposite. On my 45 mile drive home from work, there's an 850 foot net elevation change. On days with wide open roads, I average about 250Wh/mile. On days with lots of traffic and stop-go HOV lanes, it's closer to 220Wh/mile. This parallels my Model S70D consumption patterns on the same commute.

rxlawdude | 20 February 2019

(Should have said the 850 foot elevation change is downhill in the work-home direction.)

CharleyBC | 20 February 2019

While it's true that local road driving is more efficient in EVs than faster freeway driving if you're not using any HVAC, if you are, all bets are off. Or mostly. If you're in rush-hour gridlock traffic and have the heat on, you're burning lots of electrons while making no forward progress.

djharrington | 20 February 2019

@Hal, the motor can act as a heater without turning at all. It was a genius development stroke, as the motor is sized for much more power than any heating element they would have ever put in the car, so when it’s used for heating only, it’s WAY under the electronic’s limits = reliable.

mr.mark.tarver | 21 February 2019

Its obvious I'll never get anything near the 310 Mile capacity advertised. I am not at all happy with getting 50% of what I was sold on. Charged the car last night to 280, woke up this morning to 265, drove a 33 mile commute now I'm at 214. I wouldn't care if I had a garage and could plug in every night. But as it is, in Brooklyn the only super charger near to me is at the Brooklyn Museum and they charge $9 an hour. I have been having to charge every other day for an and hour and ten to and hour and twenty minutes. If I let it go below 100 Miles, I most likely wont make it back from work on the third day. So its $36 dollars a week + whatever its going to cost to charge the car + 6 hours a week to keep the car running. I am not seeing any cost savings in fuel. More likely I will be spending more. My life now revolves around charging this vehicle. I wish they would issue the DC CHAdeMO Adapter then at least I would not have to be fleeced the $36 bucks a week. We need more EV infrastructure in the five boroughs. @spuzzz123- This is complaining.

hokiegir1 | 21 February 2019

You may want to check the prices on CHAdeMo. They tend to be higher than superchargers most of the time.
I know you don't have the ability to charge at home, but is there an exterior outlet where you work? Even a 110v would help cut down on some of the losses and save you time. Or talk to your employer about putting in a L2 charging system. It would be a good employee retention thing for them in the long run, and help you short term.

Lorenzryanc | 21 February 2019

Worm hat

kevin_rf | 21 February 2019

That's one of my problems with the greater NYC area, most of the charging is located inside of pay to park garages. When transiting the area I try to top off in Darien CT or Cranberry/Brunswick NJ just to get around the mess. Last time visiting family in Brooklyn I took the train in from Jersey City since the Museum parking/charger did not look appetizing.

Is it possible to get a museum membership that gives you free/reduced parking? Pay a little up front to save more later?

nealnorton | 21 February 2019

My Model 3 Dual with 19 inch wheels and living in Florida - so very warm almost always - gets much less than the range advertised. When fully charged the GOM shows about 305 miles available. In mixed speed driving the actual range is about 260 miles (never more than 75mph) and not hot shoeing at all. Generally I am seeing about 15% less than the GOM shows.

In contrast, my Chevy Bolt with 32,000miles on the odometer pretty much shows exactly the range available.

I do think it possible to get 300+ on the Tesla but it would be pretty close to hyper-miling.

The Tesla is too much fun to worry about range - I just accept that the 300 mile range is BS.

Bighorn | 21 February 2019

I can get about 334 miles out of my P3D if I’m careful and driving to empty. That’s the least efficient model, but with 18 inch wheels. That matches the actual EPA figure that Tesla achieved for LR RWD.

gmkellogg | 21 February 2019

I agree Neal, range doesn't bother me as much because the car is fun to drive. The 310mi range seems like the absolute best case scenario (which most MPG is too). Since winter, I've only been under 300wh/mi when I've completely turned off the HVAC. I'm certainly glad I didn't wait for the standard battery. I'm looking forward to warmer temperatures for sure.

Mike UpNorth_ | 21 February 2019

@OP

your situation sounds horrible. I would not have bought a T without sufficient charging capabilities....Sorry man.

slingshot18 | 21 February 2019

@mr.mark.tarver It was never advertised as 310 miles in all conditions. You can get 310 miles with a P3D, even more if you want to. It's all about conditions and driving style. Unfortunately, your conditions, especially in the winter, will prevent it. But it's not the car's fault. It's doing what's normal for a Model 3.

Bighorn | 21 February 2019

@mark
I can't imagine anyone here, except maybe Mike83, advising you to purchase the car given your constraints. I've only charged once at the Brooklyn Museum, but I ended up sitting around in the toll booth line waiting on someone ahead complaining about their bill. I didn't pay anything because I was in the grace period, but I'd never consider that as a primary charging option. I'd be looking for a garage with Level 2 EV chargers, if that's even a possibility in your location.

aptwo | 21 February 2019

What wh/m are you getting?

ODWms | 21 February 2019

I’m with Bighorn. I’ve mentioned before that I easily get rated miles in my P3D+, big wheels and all, no problem.

It’s all a matter of driving style. Just like in my ICE cars, if I chill out I can get rated miles. If I hot foot it, I get less, naturally.

Obviously, there are other factors such as temperature, use of HVAC, grade and other considerations. But these cars are super efficient, if you are.

Red_Falcon | 21 February 2019

Mark, i too have a P3D+...I didn't catch in the thread what part of the country u live, but after going through the Polar Vortex you'll loose ~40-50% range. at temps <5F, especially if you do mostly city driving. Does your town home have even a 110V outlet nearby? I did this for two months and found it more than enough for my 20-30 mi daily commute. Also don't do full re-charges - I do 90%, and found after some road trips it's good to take the batter down to 20% and then supercharge it. I had 465-475 mph charging rates, which means i could go from 20-80% SoC in about 20 mins. Also what's your vehicles lifetime energy usage? Mine is sitting at 357 Wh/mi...yes that's hi as compared to someone living in a warmer climate, but when i've measures the heater drawing up to 10kW when outside temp is in the teen's, you won't be getting good mileage. Matter in fact, 10kW at 40 mph will equate to 250 Wh/mi. This is more energy / mi than it takes to move the car at 40 mph. I''m not too worried about the mileage right now, because on rare warm winter days i've actually have seen my mileage fall to 237 Wh/mi at an average speed of 35 mph, which will get you nearly 320 mi range. Also remember the 310 miles is based on an energy consumption / mi of 245 Wh/mi, which is about 62 mph with no heater/air conditioner, level road, no wind and tires at 42-44 psi (perfect world conditions). My recommendation is plug the car in at night...get a long extension cord and plug into a 110V and charge to 90% and if it doesn't get there, well that's ok. Go to a supercharge when the SoC falls to 30% (make sure u plan is such that you arrive at the SC with 30 SoC). Oh my last point...hope for spring!

Bighorn | 21 February 2019

@red
Rated mile parity is 234-236 Wh/m. It’s easy to calculate.

kevin_rf | 21 February 2019

@Red_Falcon What you missed is he lives in the Park Slope area of Brooklyn. Meaning street parking with no dedicated parking spot or chance to plug in or run an extension cord to the car at night. Any charging will involve pulling into a paid parking lot to charge. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if he had to walk a block or two each morning to find his car.

I do wonder if he has looked at some of the other chargers listed on plug share. Yes, still paid parking, but maybe charge overnight and grab the car in the morning. The only other option is paying for private parking that includes charging. That would most likely cost more than his car payment.

ODWms | 22 February 2019

In New York? Easily.

mr.mark.tarver | 22 February 2019

I have begun the process of asking the NYC DOT (department of transportation) to issue me revocable consent for
a private parking space in the front of my townhouse to plug in at night. I have 400 amp service( plenty of Juice) to charge the vehicle. The easiest scenario would be to run a cable under a cable ramp at night and plug it in.Of course its not free you pay the city. Hopefully I will be able to get this. The process takes about 6 months to a year.Hopefully they will allow me this.No guarantees though.I really enjoy driving this vehicle( performance) and I love the styling. But keeping it charged has become somewhat of a hurdle for me due to the lack of a driveway or garage.

neil.weinstock | 22 February 2019

This is why predictions of BEVs completely displacing ICEVs in a few short years are overly optimistic. As wonderful as BEVs are, they are not care-free in the same way ICEVs are. Many people choose convenience over all else, and simply don't want to deal with this kind of stuff (e.g. my wife).

I feel fortunate to have a garage where I can charge at home every night. For those who don't, I'd be very reluctant to recommend a BEV right now, unless they really understand what's involved.

To Mr. Tarver: remember that things will get a lot better once the weather warms up. You're in the worst case scenario right now. My range is down about 30-35% in the cold, not as bad as what you seem to be getting but still significant.

kcheng | 22 February 2019

First, according to tests, the Model 3 Performance will get about 15% less than the EPA rating, so instead of 310 miles, you'd only get 269 miles.

Second, you shouldn't charge to 100%, but somewhere between 80 and 90%, so that will knock off some of your range.

Third, it's cold and you can't precondition while plugged in, so you're going to use alot more energy to keep your car warm. At 20 degrees, you can easily lose 20% of your range. And, if you use your heat, you can lose another 10 to 20%.

When you add it all up, you could easily find that your range is only half of what it would be in the Summer.

Getting a performance option is not all positive, there are negatives, and one is going to be lower range. Another is going to be harsher ride. Another could be more frequent tire changes, due to higher wear and higher probability of damage.

You should consider running your car in Chill mode in Winter, and maybe getting the Stats app to objectively measure your efficiency. I'm in Maine, and Stats says my efficiency is 88%, ie 88% of rated range, but I don't have a Performance model, mine's LR AWD. According to Stats, the histogram of efficiency peaks at about 80% right now, with the tails all the way down to 40%. So there are people getting 40% of rated range.

ODWms | 23 February 2019

That hasn’t been my experience at all. As I mentioned, I have the Performance, with the performance upgrade package (bigger wheels, tires, brakes, etc.) and I still, routinely achieve over 300 miles, hardly even trying. I could easily get 310 and over.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 23 February 2019

neil.weinstock: EVs '...are not care free...'? My understanding is that in the weather conditions described here, ICE vehicles are not particularly easy to use or reliable either. I hate the cold. To me, after 32 years in Los Angeles, anything under 75° Fahrenheit is frigid. Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio, and New York residents often speak of a device called a 'block warmer' that is entirely foreign to my personal experience. Apparently a block warmer is an electric device that plugs in to a normal 110 Outlet and keeps an ICE able to turn over in the worst weather conditions. Oh, and it still might not work. Thus leaving you stranded.

This is something that is often overlooked in these discussions. Tell me, if you can't plug in where you live for charging your EV, then how the heck did you plug in your block warmer for your ICE vehicle before? And, if these are somehow 'unusual weather conditions' that you didn't have to experience with your ICE vehicle, then how are you so certain there would have been 'care free' operation of the ICE instead, with or without a block warmer?

A couple of years ago, I moved to Mississippi to look after my Parents. It is bone achingly cold here, 63° Fahrenheit this morning. About this time last year it had been below 30° F for weeks, and under 20° several times overnight. Trust that if this were a place where I could expect temperatures below zero Fahrenheit for weeks or months on end I never would have come back here. The rain and mud is bad enough. Slush, sleet, ice, & snow to boot? Oh, hell no!

Sure, perhaps I'm spoiled. The 'Weather Tax' for living in California is real, and worth every dime. I will be there, or Hawaii, as often as I can going forward. Here, it sucks that every tropical depression or hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico spawns mutiple thunderstorms or tornadoes in this area.

To each his own and stuff, but you can't blame Tesla for your weather conditions. You lose range during Winter with ICE vehicles too. Long before a battery pack holds the equivalent energy as a 25 gallon gas tank, most of these complaints will be wiped away. My guess is that only a 5 gallon energy equivalency, ~170 kWh or so, will end ICE for good anywhere in the world.

Nothing is ever 'overly optimistic'.

neil.weinstock | 23 February 2019

@ReD: This is New York we're talking about, not Minnesota. There are no block warmers to plug in. You get into your car, start it up, and go. If you get low on gas you fill up in 5 minutes. My Prius would lose a bit over 10% range in the cold weather, noticeable but not enough to affect my life.

So yeah, basically carefree on a day-to-day basis.

Bighorn | 23 February 2019

City gas stations are going the way of the dodo. Land costs are prohibitive, plus other things.
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/352884-gas-stations-will-disappea...

Mike UpNorth_ | 23 February 2019

I've randomly noticed gas stations closing around me. Never noticed that before.....not sure what they'll do with the land though. Pretty sure it's contaminated with oil, etc.

Shock | 23 February 2019

" I do not have the luxury of plugging it in each night, instead I have to go to the nearest super charging station which usually takes an hour to 2 hrs for a full charge."

Sure beats spending 4 minutes buying gas. I can't believe some of the stuff people put up with to drive an electric car.

"My Prius would lose a bit over 10% range in the cold weather, noticeable but not enough to affect my life."

My Toyota Hybrid I got rid of last summer would lose about 15%. It was annoying, but it would still go over 400 miles in the dead of winter for every few min spent putting gas in it.

Owning an electric car without an ability to charge it at home is ridiculous.

jjgunn | 23 February 2019

At a minimum - you have to find a way to plug in your car even with a 120v 15 Amp outlet. That alone would help your charging speed when you hit up the SuperCharger as it would warm the battery.

My only other suggestion is move to a house/dwelling where you CAN plug-in

neil.weinstock | 23 February 2019

@jjgunn: is the trickle charge you get from a standard 110V outlet really enough to warm up and/or condition the battery? It certainly might be but I wonder. If so that really is a good reason to plug in that way, even though you won't get too much charge out of it.

Although "not too much charge" every night would still add up to fewer trips to the Supercharger.

Hope the OP can work something out to be able to charge at home.

mr.mark.tarver | 25 February 2019

I have been seeing better millage now that we are out of the 30's. Getting about 70%, still going through the transitional phase of going to electric from gas, But The environment is more important then convenience for me.
I'm sure as the years pass NYC will have more EV infrastructure and hopefully Tesla will release the Chad-mo Adapter for the model 3. There are two in walking distance from my house. Again thanks everyone for the helpful insight regarding battery performance and cold weather. Also driving style. I am still adjusting, But I have never been more happy with a vehicle purchase and I have never been more eager to get behind the wheel of a car and do my commute, my green, 0 emission, Commute

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