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265 at 90% on a performance model 3

265 at 90% on a performance model 3

My model 3 performance is 6 months old and after rebalancing the battery, 90% charge is 265. I spoke to a Tesla mobile guy and he stated that before they can do anything about the battery, it would have to be at least 18 miles in lost range.

I had a model S 70d for 3 years and only had minimal battery degradation. I thought maybe it’s the algorithm on the 3 so I have rebalanced my battery a few times without success.

Just wanted to know if anyone else is experiencing this issue?

Thanks,

Noel

shank15217 | 17 April 2019

Nothing is wrong with your battery, its the BMS going out of calibration.

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Shank15217, even though I recalibrated the battery?

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Shank15217, even though I recalibrated the battery?

gmr6415 | 17 April 2019

@shank15217, that was my first thought too, but the OP states he/she has "rebalanced" several times, which I think is his/her way of saying recalibrated.

There are some here who claim that recalibrating is a myth all together. To me it makes sense to me because there are a lot of technologies using LI batteries that can be recalibrated to the system. For example Apple laptops have a System Management Controller (SMC) that can be easily reset for matching the controller to the battery and resolve a lot of other "management" issues. It's also recommended when a new battery is installed to match what the battery indicator is showing to the actual capacity of the new battery. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295

gmr6415 | 17 April 2019

You would think that if recalibration is the issue in this sort of complaint that Tesla would have developed a way the SC can do it over the air.

Bighorn | 17 April 2019

Mine got down to 299 after 25k miles, but it came back to 307 with a FW update. Calibration is not even a thing for me since I drive full charge cycles routinely. If it has no practical impact i.e. unable to travel somewhere, I wouldn't worry about it.

If you indeed "recalibrated", why aren't you giving the 100% SOC? You haven't really balanced anything if you only charged to 90.

gballant4570 | 17 April 2019

I also find that its easy to move the charge limit line to a point that is close to the 90% line, but not right on it. The graphic does not make it obvious when this happens, especially on the app. I thought that maybe my AWD had gotten a small range boost along with the 5% power increase a week or so back - but I had just moved my charge limit to a point a little above the 90% line. When I moved it to right at 90%, the resulting charge was back to 278 as usual.

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Bighorn, I charged it to 100 and got 301 and discharged it all the way down and now at 90% it was at 265.

Gballant4570, I made sure the line was at 90% but I know what you mean.

andrew | 17 April 2019

My Perf 3 is 7 mos old and I get 272 at 90%soc (which is only 302 at 100%). I think it's the BMS. I pretty much run on % versus miles anyway, so who knows. I do consistently get 272 at 90% so the battery isn't degrading. The prob is when it was new, I didn't switch to miles display so not sure what I got in the beginning.

JAD | 17 April 2019

After 3+ years of ownership, I would have thought you would have figured out to just drive it and not worry about a few rated miles one way or the other. It is just an estimate and doesn't really matter. Unless there is a sudden 20% drop, there is nothing wrong.

Switch from range to percentage and the car will always charge to the same number and you won't have to worry about what it says.

lordmiller | 17 April 2019

Listen to JAD..... Stay on percentage and drive the car.

elecfan2 | 17 April 2019

Per Teslafi my Model 3 Performance at 5 months old and 25000 miles is...

High Range vs. Low Range
High Range Low Range Range Loss Percent Loss
310.09 304.09 6 1.97 %

High Range vs. Current Range
High Range Current Range Range Loss Percent Loss
310.09 307.79 2.3 0.75 %

Starting Range vs. Current Range
Starting Range Current Range Range Gain Percent Gain
305.84 307.79 1.95 0.63 %

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Jad, true, but just want to make sure it’s not a bad battery. I guess if it gets worse, it will be. Anyway, I’m really happy with Tesla and I would never get another vehicle. Actually, waiting for the truck now :)!

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Jad, true, but just want to make sure it’s not a bad battery. I guess if it gets worse, it will be. Anyway, I’m really happy with Tesla and I would never get another vehicle. Actually, waiting for the truck now :)!

httran26 | 17 April 2019

You might want to do two more cycling from 100% down to low. For my car, I didn't see miles go back up until the third cycle.

bpaul | 17 April 2019

When I received my car, it 100% was 308 miles. Since switching to percentage, I've never been happier. I also sometime check and see that an implied 100% is 310 miles. So, yeah, switch to percentage. It's a more useful number because "miles at rated range" has far more precision than accuracy.

All that given, do you think there's a chance this Tesla service bulletin could apply to you? In other words, was your vehicle manufactured between May and August 2018?

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10148848-9999.pdf

bpaul | 17 April 2019

(If yes, ask Tesla if your VIN is on their list.)

JAD | 17 April 2019

Cycling the battery is actually slightly bad for the battery. It is much happier in the 20-80% range(10-90?). Taking it to 0 and then 100 does slight damage, so if you do that too often you could create the problem you are worried about.

Magic 8 Ball | 17 April 2019

4.4 hrs for a battery swap, not bad.

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Bpaul, thank you. I will call them.

jjgunn | 17 April 2019

90% is 90% - just because the screen says "265" doesn't make it an accurate 265 miles actual range. You might get less, especially if you're driving against the wind or uphill. You might get more - with wind / downhill.

Many many factors involved in actual mileage

Best bet - ignore what "miles" the screen has listed & use percentage - you'll be much happier & this is coming from a Model X 100D owner who uses about 20% battery (58 miles) to go an actual 48 miles. (WHERE'S MY 10 MILES?!?!!)

My point is relax & enjoy the best vehicle on the road & stop fretting over "losing" 10 miles

I wish to god people would be this finicky with a gas car. Do you folks have any idea how much gas you lose on a daily basis? Sheesh.....

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Jjgun, thanks for your input. Just got off the phone with Tesla. It is a bug that is underestimating the mileage. It will be fixed with 2019.12.

Bpaul- car was made 9-11 so just over the bulletin. Thanks though.

SteveWin1 | 17 April 2019

My 6 mo old performance is getting 270 at 90%. That's about a 3% drop from when it was new. Sounds like that's pretty standard.

It dropped pretty steadily from when it was new to about 8,500 miles. Its currently around 11,500 and has not dropped any more since 8,500, so hopefully its done dropping for a while. I also switched over to percentage, cause it was driving me crazy seeing miles dropping off my range each day. Now it just says 90% when I get in the car and that takes me as far as it takes me. Much happier not obsessing over my rated range.

SteveWin1 | 17 April 2019

@bpaul, man...thanks a lot. One more thing to be paranoid about. My car was built August 2018 (not sure of the exact date). That bulletin says May 7 - Aug 25. Is this something that affected ALL cars during that time and we all need to get our cars checked out, or is it something where we would have major issues and we'd know it?

I definitely don't get the "rated range" ever. I generally get 60-70% efficiency. I realize this is also dependent on how I drive, but how would I know if it was due to cells that aren't connected? Wouldn't it look just like inefficiency due to driving style? :/

nolasco1974 | 17 April 2019

Stevewin. Just call Tesla and they can tell you. They were really helpful.

bpaul | 17 April 2019

@SteveWin1: I only know about that bulletin because there was another recent thread about it. I'll leave it to your Google-fu to find it. My recollection is that it *didn't* affect all cars manufactured over that time period, and that the consensus was that the a problem would be obvious in your total range. A couple people called Tesla because they have a list of VINs with the issue, and they won't be proactive contacting you.

I'm also an August 2018, delivered in Chicago Sep 1 so I'm almost certainly from that period. I'm putting myself in chill mode because we have an eight-year warranty on this issue, and I don't seem to have any problem. And if it does apply, the later they replace my battery, the better. ;)

Bighorn | 17 April 2019

I just queried them through the Tesla Account/Manage/Request Help link now.

SteveWin1 | 17 April 2019

Just spoke to them. They said to take it to a service center to have it checked out. :( That's a 1.5 hour drive for me. Ugh.

Bighorn | 17 April 2019

@Steve
9 hours for me, so...hopefully I get a different response.

SteveWin1 | 17 April 2019

@Bighorn, ouch! Yeah, they specifically said this is beyond the capabilities of the mobile tech and that I'd have to bring it in.

SteveWin1 | 17 April 2019

@bpaul, good point on waiting as long as possible. I may do the same.

mbouchti57 | 17 April 2019

I have a P3D as well since August 2018 (7000 miles). I am currently at 272 at 90% and 302 at 100%). I have taken it down as far 7 % and fully charging it couple times but no luck.

George with SacEV | 17 April 2019

I charged my Performance Model 3 today to 99% and had 302 miles. Generally i am at 304-6 miles when I charge to 100% at HOME, but today was at a public charger to "top off" as much as my patience allowed before heading to the local drag strip....

johnw | 17 April 2019

That's pretty annoying I would say. I'm at 277 90% after 6 months and 13k miles. Hopefully it's just the calibration problem. BTW, this hasn't changed in 3 months for me.

ADinM3 | 17 April 2019

I'm at 276 @90%. 306 at 100%.

Mine was build in April 2018 so the bulletin doesn't look like it could apply to me.

BTW, base on how I read the bulletin, if you noted 310 miles @ 100% when you got the car I would assume you must be ok, otherwise the number would have been lower if some of the cells were not bonded.

Side question for those saying to just put the car display in percent mode and enjoy. How do you then estimate remaining miles when you are deciding how close to cut it in making it to the next charging location, especially in windy and cold conditions? If it says I will arrive with 8% SOC remaining, I want to know what that equates to in miles. I know I can calculate it manually, but are you guys doing something different, i.e. with the energy app?

Regards,
Aaron

elecfan2 | 17 April 2019

I set my display to percent battery, and use the energy app as that shows dynamic real data pertaining to your current situation.

Bighorn | 17 April 2019

@AD
I’ve developed different algorithms over the years, but you’re pretty safe if your destination is within double of your SOC or 2 miles per per cent. Rated is close to 3 miles/% so you can arrive by achieving 67% efficiency.

eandmjep | 18 April 2019

May April 2018 build. 20,000 miles. Charged between 277 and 278 most of the winter. After 8.5 it started charging to 280 or 281 also after a 40%-90% charge. The 280 to 281 were a 90% when new. I have not seen an indication yet of the 15 mile range boost.

Red_Falcon | 18 April 2019

Have about 5700 mi on my MP3+ and during the winter months 90% SoC fell to 276 and i too thought my pack was degrading faster than advertised, but after taking two 350 mi road trips and letting the SoC fall to about 20% before supercharging, the warmed up pack SoC was like when I took delivery - 90% 279 mi. Now the weather is warmer, I always get 90% 279 mi and occasionally 280 mi SoC.

If you haven't dropped your SoC below 30% and then charge back up to 90%, I would try that; it seems to work for me whenever the SoC mi and percentage don't match.

Red_Falcon | 18 April 2019

Aaron, I too set the display to % and when road trip i use navigate and set my destination and then use the energy map to track my rate of energy usage. It very accurately shows the SoC at your destination, and if you drive with heavy right foot you'll see how far below the target SoC you will be at the destination.

Once at my destination and supercharging, I used the data in the "Since Last Charged" tile and the distance to the next supercharger or your destination to figure how much charge do I need to add - I usually add another 5% above that to take into account temp and wind changes that might occur.

I don't use what the supercharger thinks I need to get to the next supercharger or destination, because the amount of energy added it calculates seems to be based on going about 65 - 70 mph. I find use the real world number from the "since last charged" tile and multiply the Wh/mi by the miles to the next stop and then add another 5%.

I do wish the trip planner would do this and allow you to select the supercharges you want to stop at. The trip planner allows you remove a supercharger stop, but I haven't yet figured out and don't think there's a way to manually add new stops. If anyone knows how to do that, please add to this thread.

Pete

SteveWin1 | 18 April 2019

"BTW, base on how I read the bulletin, if you noted 310 miles @ 100% when you got the car I would assume you must be ok, otherwise the number would have been lower if some of the cells were not bonded."

Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure it determines how full your battery is by the voltage its getting from the battery pack. If the missing connections are parallel connections, the voltage wouldn't be affected when fully charged, so the car would report 310 miles. However, the energy would be depleted faster than expected, which would look like inefficient driving. Trying to remember back to undergrad physics... I think the max current would also be lower, so maybe these cars would have a slower acceleration than advertised?

Magic 8 Ball | 18 April 2019

Post #42 in this thread. Bumping because I am in the build range of the SB. I have not noticed any range issues.

SteveWin1 | 18 April 2019

M8B, you're by far the most pro-Tesla person on the forum. What's your typical efficiency? Do you use TeslaFi or stats where you can track stuff like that? When you leave a supercharger and its says you'll arrive with 15% battery, what do you actually arrive with? How does your expected arrival charge adjust as you drive when you navigate somewhere?

Magic 8 Ball | 18 April 2019

As a retired ME, and still a geek, you may find it strange but I really don't care about the stats on my car (might have something to do with not bring work home ; ). I do care if it is broken, or not, but I have not been concerned with range. I have never charged to 100% and my current charge is to the second bar from far right in app (I think 80%) and it shows 250 miles. That is plenty of estimated miles for us at 80% so I have no reason to suspect an issue. The battery warranty has plenty of years left so if there is an issue I have plenty of time to discover it.

I am interested in this thread so I will watch, maybe a snark or two, but it is a good thread since it has a tech doc from TESLA that is good data.

007bond | 18 April 2019

So I was in a few weeks back for tire rotation if my VIN was on the list would they have said so or I would have to specifically ask? Car was made late July 2018 so falls in the range.

kallian | 18 April 2019

I think the degradation is expected on the P models. The power consumption rate is higher on these vehicles depending on your lead foot to blow past folks on the highway.
Using more power rapidly, batteries degrade faster, just how they work. This is why the warranty costs are different for the P. We paid more for that replacement based on our vehicle capability.
For me its 274 at 90%
I still advocate driving on chill if you want range for long distance driving. Daily, not so much, unless you want to preserve battery. But then again you bought a P right?

ADinM3 | 18 April 2019

Two more questions:

On the LR RWD is they any real data on driving style on battery life? I see references above that hard driving might degrade battery but it seems even a lead foot would still be very short bursts of heavy battery draw and seem hard to believe it would have meaningful impact on the battery.

If we are all to just dismiss what appears to be significant variation in reported battery miles even after calibrations, attributing it up to BMS calibration, then what should be monitored to provide confidence of normal battery wear?

Sslnight | 18 April 2019

I dont have a performance but my dual motor is showing the same kind of ranges. My car was produced within the TSB range but my pack did charge to 310 a time or two within the 10,000 miles ive driven on it.

I thought it just calculated based on battery voltage as well as your driving style? If i drive like a normal person my Wh/Mi is 220 or so but my lifetime is 260. Overall i dont think there is an issue but it would be nice to see 310 again. We will see how well it does on my long trip next week.

kallian | 19 April 2019

Per warranty statement expectations, you are allowed to lose 1% range per 4k miles. Do your math. This is fact in the warranty statement.

hassan | 19 April 2019

4159m on my 11/2018 built M3P+ that was delivered 11/27. Happen to charge to 100% today for the 1st time ever and it showed 310m.

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