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The earth is indeed flat

The earth is indeed flat

The internet has the opportunity to educate all. It is sad to see how it becomes a source for alternate truth and facts. Many including some on this forum use the internet to skip studies and facts and go straight to their alternate facts. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49021903

blue adept | 1 August 2019

@andy.connor.e

Thank you! I try...

And that's pretty damn pathetic if you ask me, especially for those in the "first world" country (as opposed to the still as of yet developing second and third world countries of the world) of America with relatively unlimited access to a variety of all manner of educational resources inasmuch as life distributes talent equally but not so much opportunity, of which America's are plentiful.

Alas, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

At risk of sounding a bit conspiratorial-ish, I think that some aspects of our government, and even our economic structure, works to maintain a certain level of illiteracy amongst the populace as the means of insuring a pliant workforce and complaisant populace to keep as many as possible...manageable...so that the powers-that-be can keep on doing what they've been doing, afterall, would you have ever imagined the possibility of a narcissistic, racist, fascist misogynist being elected as President of the United States?

Just thinking out loud.

TabascoGuy | 1 August 2019

@blue, when you said this: "'Ego", as I understand it, is the most prevalent trait among those lacking in any actual intellect and manifests a compensatory effect...in their minds at least."

I instantly thought of this guy: "would you have ever imagined the possibility of a narcissistic, racist, fascist misogynist being elected as President of the United States?"

blue adept | 1 August 2019

@finman100

It is a somewhat bizarre debate strategy to say the least, being willfully ignorant and all, though I think that there might be some merit to your assessment of an 'inverse learning curve ratio', though it is typically applied as a characterization of Economics as it relates to a companies' profitability more so than it is applied to an individual's cognitive ability, or so I think I recall reading something like that in my studies.

Of course the 'win' by whatever means would be important to them because that would be all that they would have to validate themselves in a world they'd likely see as spinning faster than they're able to keep up with because they've "plateaued" intellectually and simply lack the cognitive ability to comprehend matters above that level, which is no sleight against them, it is just the genetic hand they were dealt.

All the same that doesn't make their behavior right or lend any credence to their contentiousness, but they should not only recognize their limitations, but also stay in their lane (as it were) to avoid frustrating those of us who actually do know what we're talking about, or at least ask for additional clarification of something that they don't understand to help keep them current in the conversation.

Thursday's are Friday's evenings so, yeah!

blue adept | 1 August 2019

@TabascoGuy

ROFL!!!

You ad I both!

+100!

blue adept | 1 August 2019

...and...

blue adept | 1 August 2019

@finman100

Now that I think about it, yeah, they should at least have the commonsense to ask for additional clarification of something that they don't quite understand instead of just stumbling on belligerently in hopes of the other person acquiescing out of mere frustration.

Just basic conversational etiquette really.

andy.connor.e | 1 August 2019

When the goal is to just make you wrong, there is no etiquette.

blue adept | 1 August 2019

Leaving a discussion because you recognize the futility of trying to rationalize with an imbecile who belligerently refuses to listen to reason or see the truth, even when you put it right in front of them, doesn't make you "wrong", but wise for saving your own sanity by not wasting any more time on them to help them satiate their need for attention.

blue adept | 1 August 2019

Good point BTW, @andy.connor.e

+1

andy.connor.e | 1 August 2019

Of course not. You're probably not wrong, but they "win". Regardless of the reality, they will view that as a win, and as previously stated, reinforces their tactics as to achieve "victory". I dont really know, i dont see that as being productive so its hard to rationalize how they think, but it doesnt really achieve anything.

blue adept | 1 August 2019

@andy.connor.e

Exactly!

It's like I mentioned earlier, their perception of a 'win' is only a manifestation in their own minds and serves no real purpose other than to pacify their need for self-validation, kinda like practicing daily affirmations in the mirror...They're not really convincing anyone other than themselves.

SCCRENDO | 1 August 2019

I personally get into debates because I want to learn something or perhaps share some expertise that I have. And debating intelligent interesting people is stimulating. My goal is definitely not to win. In fact if someone knows more than me, I get to learn. What has happened over the past few years on the Tesla forums but also in other places like social media and even in face to face discussions in the era of Trump there are many with an agenda that put out false narratives. In these cases I feel a personal responsibility to correct the false narrative. Perpetuating this could be harmful particularly with climate change denial and all Trump's lies.Here we are looking for a win. Under these circumstances we never win on the facts because they ignore the facts and filibuster on their theories or even change the subject to one where they think they will win including stepping into the gutter with infantile name calling as with our most persistent denier troll. Unfortunately you don't win by stepping into the gutter with them because they have home field advantage there. I tend to try mix it up a little but ultimately it is not worth the trouble. Our latest solution seems to have been most effective in that we have teamed up to ignore our troll, not giving him the satisfaction of either a positive or a negative reaction. Our win has come from team flagging resulting in his"wisdom" being banished from the forum

blue adept | 1 August 2019

I, too, like debates/discussions that are civil and/or at least marginally intelligent for much the same reasons as you (we've enjoyed some decent ones over our time here), but find it difficult to realize any progress of any sort if someone stubbornly insists on ignoring your input or information posted in links from the relative reporting agencies or authorities that directly contradicts the other side's argument/position in favor of blindly pursuing their agenda regardless of how flawed all of the information exposes it to be because the conversation stalls, stagnates, and just doesn't go anywhere which only serves to detract from all participants at that point while disseminating misinformation that pollutes and corrupts the forum in the process.

It's great to have new people join the forum and expand our little community, but some people simply aren't worth the effort, as we've seen from time to time.

It's like what you alluded to, you should 'never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.'

I think that it was Mark Twain (or was it Samuel Clemens?) that said that?

sabbia | 1 August 2019

Thanks Andy, blue, SCC, finman, Tobasco and others. Makes coming back here worthwhile.

dmm1240 | 1 August 2019

@Mitch while I didn’t participate in the FEMA stuff, feel I’m on safe ground in explaining - It never was about the fact that you had federal flood insurance or that you received FEMA aid to help make you whole again, it was and is about your hypocrisy.

I’m going to say this once and not elaborate: You small government libertarian ideologues scream about small government, personal responsibility, and what you perceive as liberty at the top of your lungs. You think government’s role is to provide defense, police and courts to protect your precious property rights and that is all government should do - until your ox is gored and then you’re first in line to collect insurance payouts and other benefits. A hurricane Sandy hits the N E and you guys vote against emergency aid in Congress. But let a hurricane Harvey hit your houses and watch the 180 degree turn. “We’re hurting and we need FEMA!” That makes you hypocrites and lousy neighbors and citizens.

Do you not understand why your “Screw you, now gimme mine!” attitude meets with derision? I haven’t taken a poll but imagine there is not one soul on this forum who is sorry that you received help. We believe in the creed “we’re all in this together as family, community, and Americans. You say you’re NOT until, the Marlboro cowboy is your role model, until you do need the rest of us. SCCRENDO and the gang didn’t want you to suffer financial ruin, they want you to 86 the hypocrisy. Until you figure that out - I have serious doubts you ever will - you’re going to receive the treatment you do on this forum.

Oh, did you know the Marlboro man died of lung cancer? Wonder if he had health insurance, or did his rugged, “I do it all myself and don’t need nobody” persona mean his family was stuck with the medical bills?

SCCRENDO | 1 August 2019

Unfortunately on a public forum we need to deal with all the trash that disrupts the discussion. I have been one of the most guilty in allowing myself to be distracted. As long as we ignore as a team and flag to remove the clutter the free flow of the discussion should not be interrupted. Beside the persistent troll there are others at the sub intellectual level who may be polite but are so ignorant that they do not understand the topic and are also worthy of being flagged to remove clutter.

RedShift | 2 August 2019

“Isn't it funny how my post got erased? ”

Not funny, but more like ‘well deserved’.

You are the new John Doe/ Sarah Conner.

For those who don’t know him, he was an infamous troll who got the ban from Tesla Forum Moderators last year or so.

You two should get together.

andy.connor.e | 2 August 2019

I think its funny, because MitchP85D is definitively insane.
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results."

Yup, that sounds like Mitch.

MitchP85D | 2 August 2019

If I am indeed insane andy boy, then wouldn't you want the public to see my posts to prove your point? Obviously, that is not the case. You erase my posts because liberals hate viewpoints that are not the same as theirs.

jimglas | 3 August 2019

mitch, what is your preoccupation with the term "boy"?
seems very "odd" to me

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

@jimglas. I wouldn’t waste too much time trying to analyze his thoughts and vocabulary. His antisocial behavior covers many aspects of life

MitchP85D | 3 August 2019

Ohhh, ahhhh. Look at SCCRENDODO's sophistication. He is such an expert on human behavior!

jimglas, to answer your question, I call andy.connor.e andy boy the same reason why I call you jimmy flaggie boy and SCCRENDO SCCRENDODO. It is the same reason why some of you call me weathermoron.

I have many different names for you liberals. I used to call SCCRENDO Sanctimonious Socialist Turd during the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey. Out of all of our discussions during the past several years, there was only one thing that pissed me off. And that was the contemptuous attitude many of you here had for me when my home got flooded during Hurricane Harvey.

That did catch me off guard. When I announced it to the Forum, I wanted to drive home the point that my home got flooded by my Tesla P85D made it through! I was in jest making the point that all was well because Harvey did not take my Tesla away from me. As long as I had my Tesla, nothing else mattered. This is a Tesla Forum by the way, and I wanted to share that bit of news with the Forum participants.

What stunned me was discovering the true nature of many of you in the Forum. I had no idea how sick, pathetic, and contemptuous you are. You truly wish harm on those whom you have a political difference with. So, the name-calling was just a reaction to that.

Answer your question jimmy flaggie boy?

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

@jimglas. Point made above. We are living in different worlds. You have to lower yourself to a sub intellectual bigoted level to understand the thought process. He does not understand your concerns and thinks he is winning a debate with his peers. Flagging and trash removal is far easier. There is no benefit to hearing from him.

Tesla2018 | 3 August 2019

Mitch- The way they attacked you was pitiful. And they are like crybabies that delete anything they dont like, but then they state that they hate censorship. And the name calling and swearing by some would result on permanent ban on most other forums. But Im sure they would be the first to take Fema money if their homes were destroyed by wildfires. If global warming causes fires then why do they live in areas that are subject to them makes as much sense as yelling at you since you live in an area thats subject to flooding. And if they are so concerned about science, they why are they still living in California which is predicted to fall into the kcean in the future. Guess I should move out of Florida since its going to be underwater soon too.

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

@Tesla2018. He is being treated like this because he is a pure troll. He is trying to disrupt. He mass spams and does not address the topic. He continually reposts links from denier sites. In the beginning we all tried to debate the topic and show him that his links were unscientific and wrong. He refuses to look at validated science and likely does not understand much of it anyway. His response is purely to repost his same links sprinkled with infantile name calling. Most of us here would enjoy an intellectual debate with people with opposing opinions and good science knowledge. We often have @Tesla2018. The one problem is that the Democrats are too nuanced in their approach. And for less sophisticated Americans they don’t spend the time explaining their policies at a simple level. That leaves a void for Trump and Foxnews to give their own interpretation. Because they explain their version of the Democrats at a cruder level they are better understood and believed by his cult. My take on you is that you will vote for Trump yet you seem unhappy with a lot that he says and does. The reality is most of the Dems would create a better world for you but you get put off by Trump’s labels and false interpretations. I agree with you that Williamson is way out there. Her heart is in the right place but the country won’t be fixed by pixie dust and she has some weird stances on things like vaccinations which she has tried to walk back. It’s good to be exposed to diverse opinions but she does not stand a chance. Anyone of the top tier candidates will make a great president. Their policy differences are in the scheme of things minor and the biggest policy differences are with Trump. They will all fix healthcare, improve the economy for all not just billionaires (although billionaires will pay more taxes). They will work towards eliminating bigotry and racism. The president cannot do it all by themselves and we need to also get rid of the Trump like congressmen particularly in the Senate. Moscow Mitch and Leningrad Lindsay need to voted out. among ourselves but we can debate in a civilized manner and concede when we are wrong. If I want to spend time interacted with someone with less understanding I debate my 3 year grand daughter. Sadly she is more mature and @Tesla2018. The one problem is that the Democrats are too nuanced in their approach. And for less sophisticated Americans they don’t spend the time explaining their policies at a simple level. That leaves a void for Trump and Foxnews to give their own interpretation. Because they explain their version of the Democrats at a cruder level they are better understood and believed by his cult. My take on you is that you will vote for Trump yet you seem unhappy with a lot that he says and does. The reality is most of the Dems would create a better world for you but you get put off by Trump’s labels and false interpretations. I agree with you that Williamson is way out there. Her heart is in the right place but the country won’t be fixed by pixie dust and she has some weird stances on things like vaccinations which she has tried to walk back. It’s good to be exposed to diverse opinions but she does not stand a chance. Anyone of the top tier candidates will make a great president. Their policy differences are in the scheme of things minor and the biggest policy differences are with Trump. They will all fix healthcare, improve the economy for all not just billionaires (although billionaires will pay more taxes). They will work towards eliminating bigotry and racism. The president cannot do it all by themselves and we need to also get rid of the Trump like congressmen particularly in the Senate. Moscow Mitch and Leningrad Lindsay need to voted out. than him

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

Please ignore my last post. I accidentally copied and pasted from another thread
@Tesla2018. He is being treated like this because he is a pure troll. He is trying to disrupt. He mass spams and does not address the topic. He continually reposts links from denier sites. In the beginning we all tried to debate the topic and show him that his links were unscientific and wrong. He refuses to look at validated science and likely does not understand much of it anyway. His response is purely to repost his same links sprinkled with infantile name calling. Most of us here would enjoy an intellectual debate with people with opposing opinions and good science knowledge. We often have interesting discussions with smart folk with opposing opinions. He does not understand the science and never reads our rebuttals. He purely reposts hisxsame discredited links. It is more fun debating my 3 year old granddaughter

Tesla2018 | 3 August 2019

It is fun debatig with 3 year olds. They keep asking Why so I reply Because. Then they ask Because Why? Then I say becsuse I am older and once you are older you will know Why. Then they get all confused.

Its a lot better than when they are babies and cry all the time and you cant figure out why. I would yell at my nephew since he cried when he was a few months old and his mother would yell st me saying he was a baby and didnt understand. She wasnt happy when I said at least your 6 month old dog listens to me.

blue adept | 3 August 2019

@Tesla2018

Imma havta say that that's a bit harsh, especially since you yourself (much as the rest of us) were once that 'few months old' baby who 'can't figure out why'.

Tesla2018 | 3 August 2019

I dont know how parents have the patience to deal with babies. When I volunteered at an orphanage while in my teens in college, a 6 yr old said he was upset that everyone wanted the babies or young kids. I hung out with him since all the younger kids were crying and having temper tandrums. Told him I would rather adopt an older kid that I could talk to and that was toilet trained than a baby that I couldnt understand that needed to have its diaper changed.

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

@blue adept. You have a point. Perhaps we shouldn’t be so harsh on our simple minded trolls. Like 3 year olds they cannot figure out why. Do you think they deserve the same respect as we give our 3 year olds? My preference is to send them on their way and let their own family and friends deal with them.

blue adept | 3 August 2019

@Tesla2018

Because that's how we come into this world...Cold, scared, overly sensitive, fragile, anxious, and not a damn clue about what-in-the-hell is going on, let alone who we are, why we're here or even what 'here' is, it's all new to us and it'll take a while for us to adjust and get used to it, that's what parenting is about.

You, as a parent, realize that you've brought this new life into the world and that it's your responsibility to see to their care, growth and nurturing as we're all just empty jars of clay that come to be formed by our parents input and our own interactions with the world around us that serve to shape each of us into the person we'll eventually become.

Sure, I can rationalize how it'd could be nice to just skip over those intervening infant-to-toddler years and jump right to childhood (I mean, O.M.G., just bypassing the whole development of a newborn's digestive system and their adaptation to solid foods and those indescribably noxious, nose hair singing, even vomit-inducing smells that come with it would, in and of itself, be worth the while of doing without), but then you miss out on a lot of growth for both the baby and, especially, yourself as you'll develop the selfless and caring characteristics that will serve you throughout your life and develop and strengthen the bond you'll have with your child because, though they might not want to admit it, they'll always know in the back of their minds that you were there for them when they needed you the most/when they were the most vulnerable and you'll always now that you've not only seen them at their worst but were there for them through those times (plus it's an interesting reminder being able to revisit and realize what your parents went through with you when you were a baby...It'll cast your parents in a whole new light and make you wanna call your mother).

In short, yeah, it's a hair pulling, anxiety inducing mess, but it's worth it.

blue adept | 3 August 2019

@SCCRENDO

Yes we should, no they do not, and absolutely because they're not clueless 3 year olds, they're grown ass adults who've come to this forum exhibiting the sort of characteristics liken to that of clueless, ill tempered, mischievous and bad mannered 3 year olds who're better suited taking up corner space in a "time out" than they are interacting with emotionally mature and intelligent adults.

blue adept | 3 August 2019

Don't get me wrong, sure it's great when a lot of like or even similarly minded individuals come together in the pursuit of sharing their experiences with and/or over something they're all invested in, though the quickest way to forum obsolescence is creating an echo chamber of like-minded ideological silos where free speech and free thinking wither and die in a quagmire of stale, repetitive idiocy.

It is the multiplicity of opinion, insight, and experience, that are the catalysts that contribute to and encourages a forum to thrive by generating conversation, NOT stifling it with bandwagoning circle jerking that silences opposing thoughts, ideals, and perceptions that might help us to see something in a different light or from a different angle that wouldn't have occurred to us naturally and/or but for the encouragement to consider a differing opinion.

Why?

Because it is our inherent diversity that enables this variance of perspective that is reflective of who we are as a people.

While it is counterintuitive to handicap our intellectual evolution and reciprocal cognitive ascension by limiting the conversation to just the few who mimic our like-minded biases, it is just as destructive to a forum and/or any discussion in general to allow some clueless jester to continue to prey on the character and temperament of others so they can propagate their alternative truths or pursue their often shill-worthy agendas of utter incompetence and down right idiocy.

Out with the trolls and idiots!

sabbia | 3 August 2019

@Tesla2018. Do you really yell at crying infants?

blue adept | 3 August 2019

@sabbia

Admittedly I was trying to gloss over that because, well, damn!

RedShift | 3 August 2019

@sabbia

I don’t come into the general all that often, but from what I remember about @Tesla2018 he is a very interesting character.

He once said he was mistakenly taken into custody and was in a Police squad car too. Apart from his predictable ‘pro-Trump, everything else is fake’ dumbassery, he might have a very interesting life, actually.

I’d like to know more about it, but I can’t get past the first part. :-)

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

He functions at a limited social and intellectual level. We will not change him.

sabbia | 3 August 2019

Well. I hope he answers. Not trying to change him. Just trying to understand.

Tesla2018 | 3 August 2019

I have no patience with babies. Its not that I dont like them, its just that I get frustrated since they dont understand you, and you have no idea of what they want. I was the oldest kid in my family and my baby brother pissed on me and did a poop when I was changing his diaper. After that I knew I never wanted kids. I was asked to babysit my friends baby one year at a Halloween party for an hour so they could take their older kids trick or treating. They put the kid in its crib and it cried. I guess I was supposed to check on it, but heard that its better to let them cry it out since otherwise they will just cry to get your attention since they dont want to go to sleep. Well the kid did go to sleep but was covered in vomit since it threw up since it was crying so much.
They never asked me to babysit after that.

SCCRENDO | 3 August 2019

@Sabbia. So do you understand now????

RedShift | 3 August 2019

@sccrendo

See, I’d like to believe Tesla2018 is just kidding with his earlier post. You know, hoping, really.

But something tells me he is not. :-(

SCCRENDO | 4 August 2019

He is not.

sabbia | 4 August 2019

@SCC. I'm starting to understand. We have Tesla2018 and his ... I really don't now what to call it... I'd say amazing but it's pretty scary.

And there's Uncle Paul who doesn't want the poor to have hospital bed because that's one less for him.

I'm starting to understand.

And there's the guy in Texas who wants to purify the race who is also a Trump supporter

I'm starting to understand.

And the guy in Dayton.

Okay...let's have anyone, anyone at all who is on these boards, who is a Trump supporter condemn the xenophobic, racist tweets of Trump.

Anyone at all.

SamO | 4 August 2019

(Crickets)

MitchP85D | 4 August 2019

I condemn sick, pathetic, pukes who get a thrill out of killing people. The problem is what goes on in between their ears. The solution is for us to defend ourselves against such defective, hostile minds. Unfortunately, many in America believe the solution is for all of us to become sitting ducks in a pond.

Tesla2018 | 4 August 2019

What has he said that is racist? He doesnt like people from foreign countries coming here illegally. He doesnt support Muslim candidates that do not agree with our support of Israel. Most current illegals are from South America so the Democrats start yelling racism since they think minorities will vote gpr them instead or are dumb enough to believe they will get free housing and medical.If thousands of Canadians started coming across the border illegally that were white he would do the same thing. When all rlde fails, play the rsce card.

Billy Bush was probably mad that Trump was beating his Uncle Jeb so he used the Access Hollywood tapes to try to further his families politic dynasty. Bet you didnt know that Billy Bush wanted to be president some day too.

Trump sleeping around and cheating on his wife is horrible. But then most married people cheat. Why werent all you Clinton supporters up in arms when he was cheating with Monica in the Oval Office of all places. I would have torn down that section of the White House if I was Obama since I would never be able to get that out of my mind of I had to work there. Why would I want to vote for Hillary ehen she didnt have enough sense to leave Bill? I feel the same way about Melania too and feel bad for Chelsea and Barron having to hear what jerks their fathers are to their mothers.

SCCRENDO | 4 August 2019

Thank you Mitch for the condemnation. Although you need to go a step further and demand some form of gun control. As regards Tesla2018. He doesn’t understand whether you should yell at young kids and whether there was any problem with the shooter or those politicians who incite and enable these shooters.

Tesla2018 | 4 August 2019

Sccrendo Here we go again. Blame Trump everytime a nut goes on a shooting spree. He's white so it means he must be a White Supremacy Neo Nazi. Arent you running out of race cards to play. You lived under Apartheid for too long and think the white man is the evil devil and responsible for all the problems in the world.

I know yelling at babies is useless and so is yelling at idiots that drive badly on the highway that wont hear me but it is a way of expressing annoyance and frustation and does no harm.
Kamila Harris said that she wants the police to come to peoples houses and take their guns away. Didnt Hitler do the same thing?

I think we need background checks before buying guns. However people have guns and handgrenades and a bunch of other stuff from before they became illegal. My neighbor growing up had a bomb that they dropped from planes in Vietnam that he kept. My dad had a whole trunkful of stuff from Korea, and another relative had guns and stuff from WWI and the Spanish American War that we donated to a museum. I gave all the ammo to the police department to use for target pratice training since they said it should still work. And after the riots in back in 1968 everyone bought guns. They are probably illegal now but I'm sure a bunch of people still have them or passed them down. Crimals will always have access to guns, but I feel safer knowing that trained responsible people also have them.

Heard that 2 people in Walmart had guns on them but ran away. But that is what the FBI says is the safest thing to do. Would have thought from my time in Texas that almost everyone would have been packing heat.. It will be interesting to see where this scumbag got his gun from. Did they mess up and just give him a gum permit or didhe take it from his parents house like the one kid did who shot up a school that his mother worked at.

RedShift | 4 August 2019

This keeps coming up again and again:

“What’s he said that’s racist?”

He said “there are good people on both sides” when referring to white supremacist rally in N.C.

RedShift | 4 August 2019

“He's white so it means he must be a White Supremacy Neo Nazi. Arent you running out of race cards to play. ”

This isn’t a race card, you bum. There was enough anti Jew anti immigrant propaganda found in their homes to suggest their hate filled agenda.

Man up and own up, cowards.

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