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The earth is indeed flat

The earth is indeed flat

The internet has the opportunity to educate all. It is sad to see how it becomes a source for alternate truth and facts. Many including some on this forum use the internet to skip studies and facts and go straight to their alternate facts. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49021903

blue adept | 9 August 2019

@SCCRENDO

Add to that the removal of all military/theater-of-war style weaponry (auto/semi-automatic rifles) from civilian hands and it's a...

+1

...from me.

@RedShift

Absolutely not...As long as they've passed a background check and mental evaluation.

blue adept | 9 August 2019

@MitchP85D

Honestly?

The whole thing kinda sounded sketchy/'staged' to me inasmuch as both the assailant and the "hero" just happen to be packing AR-15's, you know, like a very dedicated effort to validate the ownership of military-style weapons by civilians.

Suspect, I tell you, highly suspect.

SCCRENDO | 9 August 2019

And of course there is more. Perhaps I should go back to look for articles on the shape of the earth
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era...

blue adept | 10 August 2019

@SCCRENDO

Thanks!

Hmm, it should be easy enough to show that 'but for' (a legal precedent required to demonstrate 'causation' which is, in the law of Negligence, a principle that provides that the defendant's conduct is not the cause of an injury to the plaintiff, UNLESS that injury would not have occurred except for ["but for"] the defendant's conduct) the repeal of the assault weapons and mental background check legislation, several (if not all) of the gun violence incidents following the repeal(s) would not have occurred which would make all those who wrote, signed off on, and passed the repeals "at fault" and so, "liable" (responsible) for all those murders due to their "gross negligence" in the performance of their duties resulting in the repeal of the legislation.

Oh, and they won't be able to weasel their way out of it by claiming "official immunity" as they can be sued in their individual capacities for acts they wouldn't have been able to commit except for their official capacities as legislators (Senators, Congressmen, even the President), in other words, there would be a lot of immediate vacancies in the government hierarchy and, perhaps, some common sense would finally prevail.

And that's just off the top of my head.

No damn single entity, business, or in particular, "advocacy group" (the NRA), should be able to dictate the safety of a nation.

blue adept | 10 August 2019

This could undo all of it, if researched fully and worded properly but, yeah!

blue adept | 10 August 2019

Profiteering off of the deaths of our citizenry cannot and should not be tolerated!

RedShift | 10 August 2019

@blueadept

+1

But..but... we have to respect NRAs feelings too. They are merchants of death, but they have real feelings! :-)

SCCRENDO | 10 August 2019

@blue adept. Thanks. Are you a lawyer. I need to confess that the legalese went above my head. However I am deeply concerned about the power of the NRA and its influence on society. And we all realize that as long as the Republicans hold enough seats to block legislation and of course a Republican President especially our present nut job nothing concrete will happen. I do sense that there is more pressure and we may get some minimalistic response from Mafia Don and Moscow Mitch. The timing was great for them because the Senate only returns after Labor Day when memories would have faded. It seems like this is remaining in the headlines for longer than usual. But another Trump crime or dumb or cruel move will ultimately take the headlines away. The public and media need to keep the pressure on. We need to fight this in the courts such as suing the NRA and even possibly legislators (If it is legally possible). We need to protest at the meetings and public appearances and the Democratic candidates need to keep talking about it. We can do our part by keeping the discussion going on these forums. I think we can achieve more on this topic than trying to change the shape of the earth.

sabbia | 10 August 2019

@Blue Adept
+1...Thanks.

rxlawdude | 10 August 2019

@blueAdept, I disagree with your analysis that legislators or government executives can be successfully sued for official actions taken during their terms. I think a proximate cause analysis would kill the link back to a legislator or president/governor. "Is it REASONABLY FORESEEABLE that injury will occur because of my vote/signature?"

Also, duty and that there was a breach of duty are other troublesome spots that I see.

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

The so-called assault weapons ban was nothing more than a "scary looking" gun ban. A semi-automatic rifle is still a semi-automatic rifle without the pistol grip and flash suppressor. The only thing that was banned was the "style" of the weapon. Not the function. And all of you goofy liberals felt better about yourselves because the "style" of weapon was banned.

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

SCCRENDODO, from the NBC News link you posted -

"Similar models already sold
Gun shop owners said the expiration of the ban will have little effect on the types of guns and accessories that are typically sold and traded across their counters every day.
At the Boise Gun Co., gunsmith Justin Davis last week grabbed up a black plastic rifle resembling the U.S. military’s standard issue M-16 from a row of more than a dozen similar weapons stacked against a wall.
The civilian version of the gun, a Colt AR-15 manufactured before 1994, could be sold last week just as easily as it can be sold this week. “It shoots exactly the same ammo at exactly the same rate of fire,” said Davis."

Style over substance. That is what you liberals are all about!

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019
MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

After you liberals get rid of the scary looking guns, you will notice the mass shootings are still going on. Then, you liberals will get rid of handguns. When you notice mass shootings with shotguns, then you liberals will get rid of shotguns.

This is what we conservatives KNOW about you liberals. And this is why we oppose your "scary looking gun ban."

RedShift | 10 August 2019

Flag the troll who won’t read the links and figures, and displays his ignorance and bias. We keep saying ‘we aren’t for a blanket ban’, he will still assume we are for a blanket ban.

Show him facts and figures to show number of gun deaths FELL during the ban by quite a lot, and ROSE soon after it expired. No matter. The unheeding, ignorant gun nut will STILL say it’s a cosmetic gesture.

The gun nuts - They don’t mind if gun deaths are DOUBLED, but they want an armed citizenry, which is against the second amendment’s essence. (Tew ms us words)

See, this is because of their fetish. Nothing more. They don’t have facts or the constitution on their side.

Flag this troll to smithereens. He will whine and complain like a girl. Don’t mind him. He is utterly worthless to debate with!

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

RedShift blew a head gasket! Did you bother to read the Reason magazine article RedShift? Something tells me not only no, but hell no!

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

Oh, and for you blue. Is Huffington Post a credible enough source for you?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stephen-willeford-texas-hero_n_5a013419e4...

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

Stephen Willeford. Good 'ol Texas boy. The kind of feller you liberals hate with a passion!

SCCRENDO | 10 August 2019

@redshift. Done. He is too stupid to take part in any discussion. He misses the whole point of the interaction between @blue adept and myself. The whole issue is that even the Dems have made token moves to try accommodate the NRA whores. And even those small measures were allowed to lapse. People like himself, full of hatred, are the ones who we need to take guns away from. He is prone to fits of anger. I am not sure I would like to be anywhere near him when he is armed. It’s interesting that their excuse to keep their guns is that armed people will get the serial killers. But Texas is an open carry state. And there had to be many drunk Texans at the Walmart in El Paso with guns on their hips. Fat lot of good that did.

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

El Paso survivor wishes he had his gun!

http://concealednation.org/2019/08/another-person-at-the-el-paso-walmart...

Concealed Handgun Permit holders don't carry their guns all the time SCCRENDODO!

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

I assure you. If there were drunk Texans at Walmart with "guns on their hips," they would have fired back!

Only a few of us actually carry guns. And out of those few, we don't always carry!

MitchP85D | 10 August 2019

Watch the Chris Cuomo interview flaggie boys?

Mike83 | 10 August 2019
SCCRENDO | 11 August 2019

@Mike. It looks like he is auditioning for the Darwin awards. What are the odds that he is a climate change denier, evolution denier and likely a gun nut???

SCCRENDO | 11 August 2019

Your article took me to another link.
https://www.livescience.com/61239-flat-earth-in-2017.html

MitchP85D | 11 August 2019

Hey flaggie boys, one of your mainstream media heroes, Chris Como, interviewed an El Paso shooting survivor. Did you watch it? Or, would you rather just look away because you might hear something you don't like!

MitchP85D | 11 August 2019

Make that, Chris Cuomo.

Mike83 | 11 August 2019

@SCCRENDO Good link. I like the question; how come Mars is round and the earth is flat? No flat earther answers.
Such mixed up brains explains lake of knowledge about the Climate Crisis. A human brain is a terrible thing to waste.

dmm1240 | 11 August 2019

They say everyone will be touched by murder by gun the way it's going. I could recount a story going back 50 years, but won't because it's too personal. But I can tell this one...

Five doors down a woman named Carol lived with her son, Justin, then 31. He literally lived in mama's basement. Justin was adopted, a crack baby. Carol, a social worker, had adopted after Justin was taken from his prostitute mother. Carol herself was the product of a wealthy Grosse Pointe, MI family. Justin turned out to be autistic. He never really developed mentally beyond the level of a 14-year-old. If you looked at his web page he was most proud of graduating high school, which tells you something. Justin tended to compulsive and obsessive. He would find an interest and then obsess over it for several years and then drop it for a new one. Bicycling was one.

The trouble started when Justin discovered alt right websites. He started babbling about conspiracies by the rich left with his hated settling on the Rothschild family for some reason. He also started posting bizarre videos on the web "proving" the conspiracy theories he was talking about. Justin's online activity became so alarming that he was visited by the FBI, the Secret Service and local police. His obsession with global conspiracies led him to guns. It wasn't long before a skinny kid transformed himself into a hulk with weight training and had accumulated an arsenal in his basement. Carol became increasingly concerned and we used to talk with her while walking our dogs. She was truly becoming afraid. By then, Justin had two assault rifles, numerous combat style knives, pistols galore and even showed off his proficiency with numchukas in his videos. He also became increasingly unstable raving about loony conspiracies and took to riding his bicycle around the neighborhood with either a Glock on his his hip or a AR15 strapped on his back. He frequented gun ranges and started showing up with characters where they all were decked out in full combat gear.

On 12/16/16, my wife and I went to a movie. We came home to find police cars and yellow tape everywhere. Justin had snapped. Carol had been gently trying to ease him into getting his own place, but Justin wanted none of that; he liked mama paying the bills. That evening, he had started ranting about the conspiracies stuff and Carol had disagreed. Justin pulled out his Glock, emptied the 9 round clip hitting her 7 times. Then he reloaded, and emptied another clip into her body.

A neighbor called, said they had heard a loud sound (gunshot) and wanted to speak to Carol. Justin told the woman in a bizarre false English accent that "She's had a bit of a fall and can't come to the phone."

This couple went outside to attend a Christmas party figuring they needed to call the police. Outside, they encountered Justin again. He asked the woman, whom he had a crush on, to go away with him, then after second thought added maybe she had better not because they were different kinds of people and he would probably have to kill her. After another scary moment or two, Justin took off driving his mother's car. The neighbors called the police, they bashed down the door and found Carol's body.

Meanwhile, knowing police would be looking for him, Justin went to a nearby storage facility and ambushed an unlucky school teacher. He cut his throat with a combat knife in order to steal his Audi.

Back to me. We stood around with the neighbors for a while and finally went inside to go to bed, everyone nervous. The next morning I awoke to discover around 1/3 of the county police, sheriff's office, etc all over the place. They even brought one of those tanks they have. Figuring the coast was clear, Justin came home to pack a few things and make his getaway. Cops were waiting nearby and called out the SWAT team. As Justin left by the back door, he was confronted by dozens of cops drawn down on him and immediately gave up.

We all knew Justin was becoming increasingly unstable. Carol had discussed institutionalization with her family, but because our laws only allow for 72 hours of involuntary lockup, figured it would just enrage him more. My wife had an unsettling encounter with Justin while walking the dogs a day or two before the fatal incident.

The cops knew, the FBI, the Secret Service, the psychologists Carol had consulted incessantly and no one could do anything about little Justin (who now stood 6'6").

They found Carol's will on the washstand in her bathroom. She wanted to make it easy for her heirs. She knew what was going to happen.

Justin? He went to court still affecting a British accent like he thought he was James Bond or something and wound up institutionalized where he is still weaving baskets.

But Carol is still dead.

That's why I don't think crazy people should have weapons, particularly assault rifles.

dmm1240 | 11 August 2019

That's why I think crazy people SHOULD NOT have weapons. Autocorrect is sometimes worse than the typos it is supposed to fix.

blue adept | 12 August 2019

@RedShift

It is not meant to be our or the government's responsibility to cater to the whim and fancy of gun merchants to help them appease their shareholders, or to the special interest groups whose only 'interest' is to promote the gun merchants, as neither special interest groups nor gun merchants are meant to dictate policy to the government, however they might want to "feel" about it.

blue adept | 12 August 2019

@SCCRENDO

I am known to be a wearer of many hats...

So to maintain consistency, what the legal precedent I mentioned means is that if you have evidence or can show that a criminal act would not have been committed except for someone's action, or inaction, enabling or causing the commission of the criminal act, then they are just as guilty for the criminal act as the actual perpetrator.

It sucks that we're having to wait until AFTER Labor Day to see whether or not anything will be done by the legislators about this ongoing menace to the safety of our free society, like the powers that be think that psychopaths give a shit about holidays!

Oh, and the 'shape of the Earth' is relevant to the gun nutters because a "flat Earth" would make it easier for them to kill more people since bullets only travel in a straight line, so they fervently wish that their hopes for a "flat Earth" will turn into reality.

blue adept | 12 August 2019

@rxlawdude

I was thinking more along the lines of 'deliberate indifference' and 'gross negligence' (as mentioned above) inasmuch as the legislators were well aware of the ramifications/effect of allowing firearms to be sold at gun shows without background checks, let alone to permitting the sale of military style weapons in the civilian market, given the recent uptick of gun violence involving such weaponry following the government's recent repeal of the very gun control laws that were enacted to prevent just these sort of incidents.

But, yes, it was likewise "reasonably foreseeable" that injury would occur because of [their] vote/signature" given the fact that they recently repealed the very laws that were put in place in response to the rise of gun violence. It's like plugging a hole in a leaking dam to save a village (a nation in this case) only to spitefully remove the plug to appease some special interest group.

To clarify, the objective is to sue them in their individual capacity for acts that they would not have been able to commit 'but for' their official capacity as legislators.

For those interested, 'deliberate indifference' is the conscious or reckless disregard of the consequences of one's acts or omissions. It entails something more than negligence, but is satisfied by something less than acts or omissions for the very purpose of causing harm or with knowledge that harm will result.

Deliberate indifference occurs when a professional knows of and disregards an excessive risk to a person’s health or safety. Deliberate indifference is defined as requiring (1) an "awareness of facts from which the inference could be drawn that a substantial risk of serious harm exists" and (2) the actual "drawing of the inference."

Does that satisfy your "proximate cause analysis"?

And 'gross negligence' involves the determination of whether or not the intentional wrongdoing or deliberate misconduct was done with conscious or reckless disregard for the rights and safety of others and, given their knowledge of recent events, including their recent repeal of the very laws enacted to prevent these very sort of incidents of gun violence, they were irrefutably 'aware of a substantial risk of serious harm' resulting from their actions.

The blood of the victims of these incidents of gun violence is on their hands and they cannot wash it off with some legal loophole!

blue adept | 12 August 2019

@RedShift, @SCCRENDO & @sabbia

Thanks guys and you're welcome!

SCCRENDO | 12 August 2019

@blue adept. Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it. As to the flat earth comment, LOL.

MitchP85D | 12 August 2019

Justin should have been tried, convicted, and executed! But no. Some still think people like Justin need to be institutionalized and "studied."

dmm1240 | 12 August 2019

Justin was as looney as they come. I knew him since he was 12 and his condition deteriorated markedly in the last few months leading up to the murder. My wife encountered him while walking our dogs a few evenings before the murder. Justin jumped out from behind a tree decked out in full combat gear, scared her to death. When arraigned after the murders, he thanked the judge for his service using a British accent as the judge threw the book at him. Justin had never been further away from home than to visit relatives in Michigan his entire life.

Under Georgia law, if he's ever declared competent he will stand trial.

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-news/detective-man-admitted-shooting-m...

SCCRENDO | 12 August 2019

The death penalty is a waste of time. Mass killers do not seem to worry about the fact that they may die. It is not a deterrent. It just satisfies the desire for revenge by some of the more primitive members of our society, This is the same mentality where another country crosses us and our desire is to bomb the hell out of them. This usually aggravates the problem rather than solve it.

jimglas | 12 August 2019

I just read an article about the "antifa movement"
being Anti fascist isnt a movement
Being anti fascist is just right

blue adept | 13 August 2019

@SCCRENDO

You're welcome!

It was no problem at all as I've found it better for everyone to be on the same page and part of that is to ensure that everyone understands just where it is you're coming from/what your point is.

It's cathartic that we can laugh about it, though I think it also highlights just how bizarre their mental processes are given that that is likely how they actually think.

blue adept | 13 August 2019

@MitchP85D, @dmm1240 & @SCCRENDO

There was a time when we would have gotten people like "Justin" the sort of help that they needed, but the government took it upon themselves to all but eliminate mental health treatment programs and services when they repealed the laws that were in place to provide for them, specifically because we realized the need for them, effectively gutting the the programs that were once there to help people whom we recognized needed help, you know, people like you, Mitch (just kidding...maybe), creating a void for those of less than a stable grasp on reality to slip through.

Now that I'm prompted to think about it, there once were a lot of things that the U.S. was known for, for example, the "shining city upon a hill" that the whole looked to for guidance and held up as the example of what they could become. Hell, America used to be the standard bearers of freedom, equality, creativity and technological power.

America used to be the country that found solutions for the problems that presented themselves and stayed at it until we found the right 'fix' for whatever was wrong whereas now all that America is becoming know for is the country that 'used to be' instead of the country that 'is'.

America...the 'used to be' country.

:-(

blue adept | 13 August 2019

"...that the whole [world] looked to for guidance..."

"know" = known

NKYTA | 13 August 2019

Educate the people that think the Earth is flat.

Excoriate the politicians that don’t grasp Science.

We need a leader that understands this,

SCCRENDO | 13 August 2019

They do believe that Mars is round it seems. Perhaps a good teacher could show them some similarities between Mars and Earth and get them to explore the possibility that the earth could also be round

blue adept | 13 August 2019

Can't "educate" those that refuse to be educated.

But what to do when those self-same "politicians" lobby to remove those from office that don't agree with their private interest funded, non-science backed agendas just so they can replace them with others that do?

Tell me something that I don't know.

blue adept | 13 August 2019

Apologies, above comments directed @NKYTA

NKYTA | 14 August 2019

"But what to do..."

Vote them out.

Get people in Kentucky to buy Teslas and embrace Science, end result, McConnell out.

jimglas | 14 August 2019

A bowl of pudding with an (R) after its name could get elected in Kentucky

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