What's the deal with the eMMC (potential) problems?

What's the deal with the eMMC (potential) problems?

Hi all,

I've been reading that first generation MCU boards (in models S probably) that use an eMMC memory that is being written so often that the board eventually doesn't work. MCU boards in model 3 seems to be second generation but they seem to have the same issue. It is too early for the boards to be failing but eventually they will too. It seems to be an expensive repair when out of warranty. Tesla seems to be logging a lot of data on this eMMC. I wonder if my can with no AP,EAP or FSD is also killing this chip with data? Have you guys read about this? Any comments?

FISHEV | 17 October 2019

I think you are referring to this article or one several recent ones on same topic.

I'm reading (and hoping) it applies to older cars, mines a May 2019 delivery.

Bighorn | 17 October 2019

Elon's response to Jason Hughes is that things have improved.

jordanrichard | 17 October 2019

Just as I recently posted in a similar thread in the MS forum, on this subject, I am a bit skeptical of the size of this problem.
I don’t know what “logging” is. I don’t know if it is related to OTA updates or the MCU and center screen running. If it is when the car is operational (running), then my MCU in my 2014 MS has been running for the equivalent of 11 years, with no issues except the usual reboots.

FISHEV | 17 October 2019

"I am a bit skeptical of the size of this problem. I don’t know what “logging” is." @jordanrichard

Classic. This explains it well.

-TheJohn- | 17 October 2019

I'd love to jump in and point out that anything Fishev says is 99.93% likely to be a misdirecting massive lie.
Don't listen to them.

dmastro | 18 October 2019

@-TheJohn-: Except that Elon Musk has confirmed the issue.

FISHEV | 18 October 2019

Main issue is this from the link above.

"Regardless of your car, the logging will require replacing your MCU sooner or later."

And for current Model 3 owners.

"“MCUv2 and Model 3 also have an issue with excessive logging. Fortunately, they have a larger flash memory size, which should mitigate the issue for the time being. Tesla will still have to eliminate or curb this logging significantly on these if they want them to last, though.”

Musk's breezy Tweets to "Be Happy. Don't Worry" notwithstanding, it points to at $2,000 fix when (not if) if fails outside warranty period.

As noted, Tesla has not proactively taken out the time bombs but instead let them run to known failure and then dumped the fix it bill on customers.

jordanrichard | 18 October 2019

FISHEV, I already read that article and I don't recall it saying when this "logging" takes place, be it just through updates or all the time the car is running.

If you have the answer to this question, then say it versus reposting the article.

FISHEV | 18 October 2019

It's in the first paragraph of the article and explained throughout.

"When Elon Musk said Tesla cars are computers on wheels, he forgot to mention they run on Linux. They also do a lot of logging. According to Jason Hughes, from 057 Technology, more than they should:

“The information logged here is pretty much useless on production vehicles. Unless a developer has a specific reason for enabling it, it does the customer no good. These logs are also rarely downloaded by Tesla.”

lbowroom | 18 October 2019

Wait a second, are you saying that there are components in motor vehicles that are subject to wear and occasionally need to be replaced when they fail?

dmastro | 18 October 2019

@lbowroom: Yes, and there are components in motor vehicles that are subject to unnatural wear and premature failure due to inadequate design or implementation.

jordanrichard | 18 October 2019

Where in that is the definition of "logging" and where does it say when it's done.?

dmastro | 18 October 2019

If you care to research, that's the link to the twitter exchange with Jason Hughes and Elon Musk

TLDR: Linux logging is turned on and apparently writes a lot of information. Not necessary. Tesla is addressing to stop so much logging. More of an issue with earlier hardware models with less flash memory capacity.

The more you know...

jordanrichard | 18 October 2019

Right, I saw that Tweet and that still doesn't say what "logging" is and when it happens.

My point here is that if this "logging" happens every time the car is on and is functionally related to miles, then my MCU1 has been running for the equivalent of 11 years of typical driving.

Rodo | 18 October 2019

I would not mind if the data was actually useful to Tesla. Useless data that does nothing to help my car or future cars is a waste of ... eMMC and my money ... eventually. There a lot of engineers at Tesla so I I'm going to think that there is a reason for the logging or that they will address it at some point if it is really going to kill the MCU board.

Rodo | 18 October 2019

@jordanrichard : How many miles does you 11 year old car have?

Joshan | 18 October 2019

the things people complain about is astounding.

wayne | 18 October 2019

I understand we will be getting a new computer upgrade at some point. Should include new memory?

MichaelB00012 | 18 October 2019

Saying that the logs aren't really used or necessary is a lie. I've had a few different issues with my car and each time Tesla has checked the logs of my car to see what's going on.

Maybe EVERYTHING doesn't need to be logged, but they do need to log some of it. It's a freaking computer on wheels, that's how they can figure out what's wrong with things when they stop working.

Rodo | 18 October 2019

@MichaelB00012: The "logging" does not seem to be from the Tesla software but from the Linux operating system.

jordanrichard | 18 October 2019

Rodo, I didn't say my car was 11 yrs old, I said it has the equivalent of 11 yrs of typical driving. My Model S has 169,000 miles.

Joshan | 18 October 2019

I know this is off topic and I am potentially opening a landmine.... but with that said....

@jordanrichard curious on a Tesla with 169k miles. How is your battery doing?

jordanrichard | 18 October 2019

5% degradation. I know this is a big “but”, but as long as the degradation remains linear, it will take 1,014,000 miles for the battery to get down to 70% of it’s original range.

I assume you wanted to know about range loss.

apodbdrs | 18 October 2019
apodbdrs | 18 October 2019