"Elon Musk should be afraid. Very, very afraid.”

"Elon Musk should be afraid. Very, very afraid.”

Chevrolet Bolt EV is the 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

From the article:
Even the folks at Tesla, the electric vehicle masters of the universe, have been put on notice: The Bolt EV sets a benchmark for value and performance they’ll have to work overtime to match. “This is a direct challenge for Tesla to make the Model 3 anything near the Bolt EV for the same price,” executive editor Mark Rechtin said. “Chevrolet has made affordable long-range electric transportation available to the masses. Elon Musk should be afraid. Very, very afraid.”


Every electric car on the road is a plus. Hopefully.

burdogg | 17 November 2016

True Haggy, but at the same time, the analogy is very fitting. My kids have to do their homework - it really isn't much of an option. The same applies to GM. They are only doing it because they have to, not because they want to. :) (Nothing wrong with praising them for it, but when your kid does crappy work on their homework and misses all the problems, was the praise really worthy? GM, didn't do completely crappy but their heart is not in it and they really don't attempt to be completely successful here)

jordanrichard | 17 November 2016

Haggy, my point is one shouldn't be praised for something they are supposed to or being forced to do. Should a speeder be praised for good behavior because they handed over their license and registration upon the cop's request.....?

Run4 Waffles +1

tes-s | 17 November 2016

WSJ: Toyota sees the battery light.

What difference does it make why GM and Toyota (and others) are doing it, as long as they are? | 17 November 2016

@tes-s - from the article "The electric-vehicle unit will consist of four people: one from Toyota and three from its main suppliers."

Not sure how toyota plans to design and build any EV with just four people! They must be really smart and fast!

Tropopause | 17 November 2016


What about when the kids say they did their homework but really just copied from the encyclopedia, and claimed it as their own? ;)

jjs | 17 November 2016

To those (Amped and others) defending the Bolt:
I would ask you three questions:

1) With a drag coefficient of 0.31 do you believe this car is any where near a 238 mile car traveling at 75 mph? Now, to be fair I will rephrase to be an apples to apples comparison. At 65 mph with no wind on a flat road at 72 degrees Fahrenheit do you believe the Bolt will be any where near 238 miles? Doing the math, the answer is no, and this is a very serious blow to using this vehicle for any more than a commuter car. With Tesla at 65, flat road etc. the number they state for this combination of factors is what you will get. For Tesla M3 with a drag coefficient of 0.20 it will fair much better.

2) Do you believe GM has a reasonably effective fast charging network? I believe the answer is no.

3) Where is GM going to get the batteries to do more than compliance quantities? I don't believe they have a supply chain that allows them to grow much beyond the 30,000 number.

Then there are other questions yet to be answered.

1) What is the tech behind the battery management system? Is is active, or passive. That will tell you a lot about the likely longevity of their battery.

2) What is the warranty onthe battery and drive train? Will it be anywhere near Teslas?

3) What battery chemistry are they using?

4) What form factor of battery are they using? Is it small, AA size batteries or larger form factor batteries? Perhaps this is known. But if it is large form factor I believe you should run the other way before buying one of these.

I have been very critical of GM and the Bolt. I was shocked when they unveiled a 238 mile range. Pleased and hopeful that they were serious. But then the drag coefficient of 0.31 was revealed and I have returned to my critical stance. These are very very good engineers. They know darn good and well what a 0.31 drag coefficient means at highway speeds. They have built yet one more commuter car and wasted a lot of battery to do it.

At this point the only conclusion I can draw is that this is a compliance vehicle. Shame on, once again, the myopic vision/leadership of GM.

Tropopause | 17 November 2016

Bolt warranty is:

8 year/100,000 mile power train
3 year/36,000 mile basic
8 year/100,000 roadside assistance.

Tropopause | 17 November 2016


Here are the EPA ratings for Bolt:



What do you make of that HWY rating vs the drag coefficient? To me, it seems a little low vs CITY rating for an electric.

jjs | 17 November 2016


Thanks for the data/facts. 8 year/100,000 is good, not great. I have had my S for 3.5 years and have 113K on it. I have 4.5 years left on an unlimited warranty. Also, the real interesting thing will be actual battery degradation of the Bolt. We will see.
The EPA rate is 128 is very good much better than the S. I am very surprised by the 110 for highway and it simply does not gibe with a drag coefficient of 0.31. But if true then I will be wrong about it's highway use. We will see. I don't think 110 for highway is low at all. I believe the S is EPA rated at 91.

Something is amiss. Anyone have any insights?

burdogg | 17 November 2016

Tropo - do you happen to know if there is a battery warranty? Is it lumped into one of the other 2 you have? Just wondering for comparisons - if it is lumped under the 3 year warranty, I would be a little cautious.

Tropopause | 17 November 2016


I'm thinking the battery is included in the power train warranty similar to Tesla.

Bighorn | 17 November 2016

Isn't drag effect calculated with coefficient of drag and frontal area?

jjs | 17 November 2016

@Bighorn - Yes. The frontal area will have an impact and could account for the good numbers. Perhaps the Bolt will indeed do better on the highway than I suspect. However, without a robust fast charging network it will still just be a commuter, al beit a very good one.

If it is the cross sectional frontal area that allows for these very good numbers on the bolt than I suspect the M3 is going to have some very impressive numbers indeed. Elon may have been sandbagging with his "...better the 215..." comment.

Ross1 | 18 November 2016

Congratulations to the Holden Australia design team who produced a 2017 Best Car in category. Well, in any light car as I understand it.
While the BOLT is hated here on the forum by a few posters, it must actually be a nice vehicle.
It is not the design team's fault how GM mismarkets the car.
This is another car which can beat others in class exactly like Model S has done in the USA market against all comers.
Bolt deserves your support.
Again, I say, Congratulations.

rw86347 | 18 November 2016

I live in Denver, and with a Bolt you still can't leave Denver. In order for the Bolt to make it from Denver to Kansas City it would need a 500KWH battery. The only chargers leaving Denver are super chargers. | 18 November 2016

@rw86347 - You just need faith that perhaps in 25 years or so 90% of the country will be covered by SAE Combo fast chargers. Most of these chargers will be at dealers since everyone loves visiting dealers every 2 hours on a trip! Just hope the one slot is not ICEed when you get there.

jordanrichard | 18 November 2016

Ross, I don't think it is fair or even remotely accurate to say that the Bolt is hated here. If you read all of the remarks about the Bolt, the only criticism is about it's looks.

Literally everything else is really commentary about GM and all the hyperbole surrounding the Bolt. What GM says the Bolt does/can do is in start contrast to reality. At the reveal they make a big stink about it being the first affordable over 200 mile EV and then nothing......... They get COTY and they put the Bolt at the back of the LA Auto show display, it's do to hit the streets next month and yet no dealer knows jack squat about specific pricing. The Bolt boasts the ability to charge the car using a 240 outlet, yet won't tell you the price of the optional equipment you need. They boast it can be charged 90 miles in 30 mins via a DC fast charger, but provide no info on where exactly these fast chargers are. If they really want to sell the car and ease consumers fears about charging, they should be doing what Tesla does and help you in everyway to show you where you can charge.

Again, notice I said nothing negative about the car.

renwo S alset | 18 November 2016

I think they should add "Bucket of" in front of it's name. After all, it is a GM creation.

Run4Waffles | 18 November 2016
jjs | 18 November 2016

Is Elon now running GM? ;)
There everyone happy? I took a shot at both of them.

jjs | 18 November 2016

@Run4Waffles - "I'm dying of not shock!"
Movie it came from?

jjs | 18 November 2016

Actually I think its "I'm dying from not shock!"

jjs | 18 November 2016

Anyone else the pun?

jjs | 18 November 2016

I'm here all week.

NKYTA | 18 November 2016

Said by Frankensteins Monster?

NKYTA | 18 November 2016

RHPS next. ;-)

renwo S alset | 18 November 2016

Attila the pun.

Ross1 | 19 November 2016

I think I can see what is happening:
They will soon announce that there is such a big demand in Calif etc that all production is taken up.
They will not need to deliver cars across to other states as there aren't going to be enough and they may as well save the cost.

Mathew98 | 19 November 2016

Yeah, the head honcho is trembling at his feet and sh!tting 2170 batteries in a massive scale!

jordanrichard | 19 November 2016

Ross +1

Earl and Nagin ... | 19 November 2016

I have high hopes for the Bolt mechanical design. Clearly, if the Spark EV, a diamond in the rough IMHO, is an indication, it will have a good thermal management system and good low end zip. I believe it could set a new bar for a city car.
I'm sure there will be plenty of room in the market for many Model III variants still.

Haggy | 20 November 2016

Praising somebody for doing homework should be like praising somebody for returning a lost wallet full of cash. Why should somebody have to praise you for doing the right thing, when failing to do so would be tantamount to stealing? Sometimes it's good to appreciate that somebody is doing the right thing in a world where not everybody else does. In GM's case, they came out with an award winning car instead of a mere compliance car.

I hope the engineers at GM feel good about themselves for winning awards for their work on the car. You could make the case that it was their job to do so, so they shouldn't get praise at all, but I disagree. Compliance car or not, and car maker makes cars to make money so why praise anybody for doing something selfish?

bgbythsea | 21 November 2016

There are already more mentions of the Bolt in these Tesla forums than there are Bolts in existence. And since they're only gonna make 20,000 to 30,000 of them for now, there may always be more posts than Bolts.