1 week after my MX delivery, they announced AP 2.0. What can I do?

1 week after my MX delivery, they announced AP 2.0. What can I do?

We are talking about 7 times more cameras and 40 times more computer power. AP 1.0 is not very useful. The auto parking is horrible. Too far from curb. Summon doesn't work for my garage which has a slight slope. From the description, 2.0 is the real deal. I bought the MX for the long run, and I want the AP 2.0. They said they can't retrofit "old" versions. Anyone else feels like you are stuck with the old technology? Any way to get the AP 2.0?

In my case, they actually changed my VIN. Looking back, it feels like someone cancelled their order and they gave it to me. If I stuck to my original VIN, I might have taken delivery later, in time to get AP 2.0.

lilbean | 29 December 2016

Be happy. It isn't approved for use yet. :)

carlk | 30 December 2016

Was it AP1 or AP2 when you selected when you clicked the buy button?

campusden | 30 December 2016

So far AP 2.0 is a theory , none of the features that seem totally awesome on a test drive currently work.

poloX | 30 December 2016

@Carlk, there was not AP1 when he bought it. Just AP. But your point is valid. Does not mean he is not disappointed though.

OP, there really only 2 things you can do. Be happy like lilbean said or Sell and buy a new AP2 MX at a loss. I have heard a guy on the forum did is with 15K loss. If you asked me, it was pure stupid. But maybe, 15K for him is just 2 cents for me so who am I to judge. Drive the car for 6 months to 1 years and AP2 might be just be as matured as AP1. If you are thinking about fully self driving, give it at least 2 years and IF it ever will happen where you live, tech is one thing that I think Elon can do. regulation is a totally different thing that is not within his control. And then say the roll out fully self driving in 2 years (they said 1 but I believe it when i see it, AP2 AP S/W is not out yet and that is a copy and recalibration from AP1 and it has been more than 2 months), it still will take the new tech time to mature. By then you will have enjoyed your AP1 MX for 3 years. May, just maybe, they will find out in 3 years that AP2.0 H/W is not adequate and need another H/W upgrade, you then would be in a much better position than if you were to trade in for the AP2.0 today.

Happy New Year all y Tesla fans

Redmiata98 | 30 December 2016

I think you need to reframe the question and ask yourself "What do I want to do?"
Potential answers might be:
1) Enjoy my X while a minority of current owners and a majority of non-owners focus on vaporware.
2) Trade in my current X for one with AP 2 and then wait for the glacially s-l-o-w adaption so that you can use your new X that still may not have all the features that were working on your current X. AND take a significant hit on the trade in.
3) Whine about the fact that you missed the cutoff, how great AP2 WILL be and totally make yourself (and your listeners) totally miserable for about 6 months and then finally sell your X because it is not the latest and greatest. This could be followed by purchase of a new X and having it delivered the day before Elon announces the new AP3B model X. (The "B" stands for baby and once the regulators approve, will change diapers for you.)
4 I know, option 1 is the best one.

Your choice. I am sure you are thinking of more answers and they are all bubbling in your head. Just remember that cutting edge tech is a moving train, jump aboard and enjoy the ride. If you wait for the latest car, you might find out there is no caboose and miss the train!

(We feel for you, went thru it and personally I found that enjoying my current X was the best option.)
Did I mention option 1 is the best option?

lilbean | 30 December 2016

+1 red!

burdogg | 30 December 2016

Aren't we like 3 months old for this post? This has been hashed and rehashed and you would have had your car long before now - so why now? What is your motive to all of a sudden come on here? Just curious, because boy this was a hot topic back when it mattered, we are way beyond this question at this point. (any car delivered from November on was supposed to have new hardware)

lhanspal | 30 December 2016

@zhengst0905 - there is a probably Option 4... it is likely that Tesla will offer a AP1.0 -> 2.0 upgrade in the future.

Two signs point to this. First, is the fact that the AP2.0 hardware can be easily retrofitted on AP1.0 cars. This is based on knowledgeable folks from the Service center + inputs from some distant contacts in Tesla engineering (I live in Bay Area as well). Second, Tesla is hiring a "Retrofit Product Manager" - that should be able to pull this program together. Search for 'retrofit' in the Careers link off (BTW - dont expect job descriptions to include AP2.0 retrofit).

Self driving tech is moving rather rapidly, and regardless of what people think - it's coming... one caveat - the usecase of a self driving car with a driver present that will drive with solely navigation based destination as an input - will happen within the next 6-12 months. The scenario of a self driving car *without* a driver is probably a bit further away, due to the inevitable regulatory issues.

Now - the above is based on educated guesses - no one can really give you a definite answer on this...

Tesla's strategy on AP2.0 is actually pretty spot on. I will admit, i was pissed when this news broke - but Tesla knew that they couldn't get AP2.0 parity quickly - and given their customer base for high end luxury cars - there was enough number of folks that could afford to take huge depreciation hits by trading in their AP1.0 car. Felt miffed as an owner, but business wise - makes a lot of sense...

@burdogg - I dont understand your comment. Is there a shelf life in your mind for specific topics?... :-) ... if so, this one isn't going away. Not everyone reads every post on this forum - and it might take 1 or 2, or even 3 years - and that's ok...

burdogg | 30 December 2016

@Ihanspal - my comment is directed to the fact that someone this upset would have posted this months ago, not right today. There are many people that try to persuade or create waves to make money. Notice I am just questioning him and there was no response. Like, when did you take delivery. Now you are just upset? So no there is no shelf life, but yes to indignation like he is posting. The things he is stating about VIN being changed etc, I would have been on here right at first posting such things. So sorry if it just smells a little fishy here.

Now I understand you if you come here and open a new thread stating, still hoping for AP 2.0 retrofit or something along those lines. I get that. But to act like all of a sudden something is off, that happened 2 months ago and the OP acts like it was yesterday just does not sit well, sorry :)

(Disclaimer, I do NOT own TSLA stock, I just hate anyone that maliciously tries to manipulate stock, I have had it happen in other investments and it makes me sick. So yes, I question the motives sorry)

lilbean | 30 December 2016

Yes +1 burdogg!

PedanticOne | 30 December 2016

There is a clear way to get AP2:

1) Sell your AP1 car
2) Buy an AP2 car

There's no step 3!

lilbean | 30 December 2016

Old news. Nothing to see here.

PedanticOne | 30 December 2016

I know I'll never recommend tesla again because... zzzzzzzzz

lilbean | 30 December 2016

Haha! Blah blah blah.

burdogg | 30 December 2016

I have looked over this and still wonder, what the ???? You got your car back in October and just now your indignation is coming out? Really?

Insanity - doing the same thing expecting different results - is that what is going on here?

lilbean | 30 December 2016

I know!

lilbean | 30 December 2016
Technistore | 31 December 2016

You could refuse to accept delivery and lose your deposit but then place another order for AP 2.0 hardware

lhanspal | 31 December 2016

@burdogg - I hear you on the malicious intent of posts, but would urge you to re-read the OP post. I didn't get that sense - it was more an expression of frustration - which amplifies issues that you would generally give Tesla a pass...

... and Redmiata98 offered 3 options - and I added the 4th (and I will admit it could be wishful thinking).

But the key point is that many owners are not following this forum on a regular basis (this forum with limited search capabilities makes it worse)... so, it's very reasonable to see posts like these, without any malicious intent.

burdogg | 31 December 2016

I understand - i still just find it odd - you have had your car for 2+ months and you are just now deciding to say what you said? That would have been the first thing I did, or at least within the month to have put. That I guess is my questioning on the whole thing - odd this late to start voicing some of the things, like switching of VIN number - 2 1/2 months you decide to say something?

nicktillger06 | 31 December 2016

Perhaps a little cheese with his whine!

Tropopause | 1 January 2017

This complaint is so last year!

lilbean | 1 January 2017

I know!

PedanticOne | 1 January 2017


zhengst0905 | 2 January 2017

@ burdogg
Appreciate your posts but definitely not your narrow-mindedness. Not everyone lives just like yourself. You don't know me. So please don't assume negative things about me and use negative expressions. Are you God? I was here for advices, not giving you a topic to pass your time. "manipulating Tesla stock price?" WTF? Sounds like you got too much time on your hand. Why not make yourself useful by doing some volunteer work and helping people in need?

I waited patiently for 3 years for my MX. When I got it I moved on with my life. Like others suggested, I didn't log back in my forum account as a daily ritual. Hence I never heard about AP 2.0 until recently. Hence the latency of my expressing disbelief and frustration.

This for me is more of an investment issue. As someone mentioned, somebody had to take a $15,000 loss to get the newer version equipment. This is an instant devaluation of a brand new car. With my delivery date that close to the new version, I should at least be given an option to take the delivery of the old version or wait till the new version is available. And trust me, I would have waited for the new version.

I was very frustrated because from some new articles I learned that even Elon himself said/hinted that retrofitting the old version may be too costly to be viable. But the post above on this topic gave me hope that it could be done.

I understand the fully auto driving may not happen for another 2 or 3 years. But I'm sure it will happen, sooner than most people can imagine. For a $100,000 car, the devaluation will be fast and furious.

I do have another option, besides ignoring the lost value or taking an immediate loss, which is to rent it out and hope to recoup a portion of the loss in a few years when fully auto drive is legal. I don't see better suggestions, so that's what I'm going to do.

burdogg | 2 January 2017

zhengst0905 - No I am not God and YES I DO volunteer a fair amount of my time thank you. And YES, there are many people who come on here and post crap for various reasons.

So, to maybe give you more to think about - Notice AP 2.0 has not even hit the cars yet - that is 3 months you have had AP 1.0 that works amazingly well (I have an S with Ap 1.0 on it so I know what I am talking about with AP 1.0). Second - we do not know how well AP 2.0 or Enhanced Autopilot for more correct info - is even going to do. Look at what enhanced does - it does everything AP 1.0 does and adds in three tiny little things (auto lane change, auto exit freeway/change freeway. Yes the hardware is a little better but you saved $2,000. No one really knows what the depreciation hit is yet. If you are concerned about your car not self driving? Well that is a ways off still. If you really think it will happen end of 2017, more power to you. I doubt Elon on that, and am a little apprehensive that they will really get there with this hardware configuration. So your AP 1.0 car is going to be pretty close to what AP 2.0 is at least in the near future. Maybe mid to end of 2017, Enhanced will be better, but by how much? Enjoy the amazing car you have. Then again, just my thoughts, as I don't know anything about you as you pointed out. Maybe you trade cars in every two years, who knows.

Last, realize I was questioning you on why now? You may not realize but this exact topic was expressed 2 months ago by MANY people, not just one thread mind you. So while you may not understand my statements, they came from seeing this so many times in the past and was truly wondering - WHY now. You answered that thank you. You may say it is narrow view, I say, it was a completely legitimate question.

zhengst0905 | 2 January 2017

And you "Ah" "Ha" "Blah" folks, you freaking teenagers? Can we have some maturity in the forum please?

elguapo | 2 January 2017

OP - A Tesla isn't an investment. Very few cars really are. It will depreciate like anything else - perhaps more, because like an iPhone, you are effectively guaranteed to have an outdated, "old" tech model within 12 months, at best. That's just a fact.

So two thoughts for you.

1) Sell your AP 1.0 X, take the loss, and lease an AP 2.0 X and dont worry about old tech.

2) Enjoy your AP 1.0 X and understand one reason to buy a Tesla is because it drives so well WITH a driver operating it and is so enjoyable. There won't be many uses for AP, regardless of the version, for several years, and even then, it's usefulness will be argued.

ST70 | 2 January 2017

@zhengst0905- You should drive it through your living room and join the class action lawsuit...

inconel | 2 January 2017

@elguapo I have always wondered why some of us are saying that leasing is better to avoid having outdated cars. Is it not easier to upgrade to a newer vehicle after a year or two (and a lot of innovations happen in two years with Tesla) in an outright buy vs. a 3-year lease?

lilbean | 2 January 2017

Blah blah blah. Ah. Ha. I'm a teenager.

PedanticOne | 2 January 2017

I know you are but what am I?

burdogg | 2 January 2017

You tu - do I need to pull this car over and let you out!

PedanticOne | 2 January 2017

She started it.

lilbean | 2 January 2017

Who me? :)

burdogg | 2 January 2017

I swear, if you keep it up, this car is going to stop. And you don't want that.

PedanticOne | 2 January 2017

Right, because you might hit the wrong pedal and end up in your living room.

burdogg | 2 January 2017

Ok, that is it, this car is going to, crap why are we now doing 120 mph????

lilbean | 2 January 2017

I don't understand :)

elguapo | 2 January 2017

@inconel Sure. If the money doesn't matter, you could always buy a new car every two years or so, but you'll keep shelling out the down payment and taking a depreciation hit.

That said, the lease payments are so high for a relatively simple X90D, that the lease is touch to argue economically unless there's a tax advantage for you (e.g. You own your own company, etc).

It's been a long time since I looked at it, but with the ability to lever a purchase, it may be better off to take the economic hit on a purchase after three years than a lease. The lease is just so crazy expensive.

PedanticOne | 2 January 2017

Yes, lease on a Tesla seems very expensive compared to every other car. I have to wonder if they are compensating in other ways for the tax credit. At this point, I will likely purchase.

Saxman | 2 January 2017

My dad was a CPA and always told me that leasing was a waste of money. I tend to agree, especially if you plan on keeping the vehicle at least 5 years.

I decided to pay cash for my vehicle just so I would not have any interest payments on top of the overall price. However I would love to keep it 10 years to help justify the cost.

lhanspal | 2 January 2017

The problem with leasing creates this issue in the first place. Anyone who is leasing - and with AP1.0 - will not be concerned with this problem. But anyone that is planning to hang onto the MX for more than 6-7 years - this becomes a problem. However, I really think Tesla is going to fix this issue - and that job profile of a Product Manager is the right step.

In fact, take a look at most of the self driving tech - Uber, Google, Delphi - are talking about retrofitting this tech. Anyhow, even with the latest AP2.0 software, it seems like limited capabilities compared to AP1.0's current features. Obviously, AP2.0 will exceed AP1.0 within 6-12 months - but maybe the HW upgrade will become available by then... and early adopters of Model X - will feel a bit more happier with their 'investment'

@burdogg, lilbean - The Tesla family is growing and it would be good for the regulars to make newbies feel welcome, rather than sites like TMC. So - can I propose a 3 strike rule for new posters? If someone posts more than 3 negative comments - sure, bring out the guns... :-)

lilbean | 2 January 2017

I'm more than happy help new Tesla family members. There are many wonderful, kind Model X owners who ask intelligent questions or have legitimate concerns and seek advice. (@liudmd, polox and many others).

elguapo | 3 January 2017

@lilbean +1

@lhanspal I am one of those who believes there's no chance TM offers a retrofit because it's just not economically in their best interest. The company is measured by cars sold and delivered. Upgrading older cars with significant retrofits doesn't increase demand, it decreases it by making all of us feel like we've got the latest tech and aren't missing out on anything. In addition, even if it was $15,000 for the retrofit, people would buy it and service centers would be more overwhelmed than they are today and busy dismantling tons of working cars to install the new cameras, etc. I don't think that makes financial sense for Tesla either nor is it good PR to take already long SC waits and increase them. The only bump in new sales (the only thing investors really care about as Tesla needs to put a lot of cars on the road to really be relevant) from a retrofitting program would be short term as soon as it is announced because any people on the fence waiting for new tech might come in and buy.

Just my thoughts, which could certainly be wrong, but I think they're more likely to be correct than a retrofit program.

Dark | 3 January 2017

OP, I was at the same shoes you were 2 years ago when I bought my S in 2014 September, and my S came with the AP1.0 turn signal stocks with NO AP1.0 sensors. I was so upset, and depressed with my purchase.

There are many people in this forum would always compare this situation as an iPhone tech. it is not the same thing, you get warnings and you have choices with an iPhone when the new version comes out. Tesla, you don't get any warning and choices and you pay for the same price as the guy next to you with a new tech.

I ended up, keeping the S for 2 years, and recently traded-in for a X AP2.0, I skipped 1 generation. My advise for you is to wait, enjoy your car, don't let this ruin your model X enjoyment as I did. Wait for AP3.0 to come out, then trade it in.

lilbean | 3 January 2017

+1 @elguapo

burdogg | 3 January 2017

@ihanspal - I really don't get it though - in this case, I asked a honest question. Yes I was a little wordy in my question, but I asked Why Now? We are all different but I truly was wanting to know, why all of a sudden. It is like me asking a question about AP not being safe because someone died while using it. I just noticed that? Anyway, I also found it odd as time went on, no answer. Again, not trying to hash this out, but when you post a title thread looking for answers (if really looking) then wouldn't you follow that thread, instead of disappear for 5 days? I know people don't live on these forums, I get that, but when you actually start a thread seeking input, you would think you would check it and respond before 5 days.

Anyway, I asked a question and no response. And it is hard to tell emotions, etc in posts and unfortunately that leads to misinterpretations and that is going to happen (ie you and I read the OP starting point a little differently).

I am for being welcoming, but something like this that has been asked this EXACT same way when it first mattered just makes a lot of us shake our head. Also, did he contact anyone at Tesla? That would have been my first phone call after I realized what had happened. (and not two months after the fact)

lhanspal | 3 January 2017

@burdogg - understand, and I felt weird when we saw no followup from the OP. Anyhow - the OP did respond - so, we know there is someone on the other end. I will admit - i dont understand the VIN issue... maybe the OP can clarify...

I will admit that that exchange between you/lilbean/Pedantic was pretty hilarious... :-) ... i have an 8 & 10 year old - so, I can totally relate to it... :-)

@elguapo - you may very well be right... i will submit that retrofits will be done by service centers and are completely independent of new cars from the factory. The way how i heard the 'inside' story is that "Tesla's engineering was not amused with Tesla's management" ... so, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. BTW - MX retrofit seems to be more feasible than MS (the 3 camera housing is different on MS). Tesla's gross margins currently are around 20% ... an upgrade in the $10-$15K will produce a higher return... so, the market's going to like this, not to mention better owner sat.

And you are right on the load for service centers - though with Model 3, Tesla's got to figure out whether to expand company owned Service Centers, or branch out with franchise based dealerships... and if it's the latter - then how much control can they retain on retrofits. Of course - this discussion is just 2 months old... but - if you fast forward 3 years when AP2.0 has been fully realized, then Tesla could realize it's a different dynamic at that stage... imagine every car manufacturer equipped with this tech...

lilbean | 3 January 2017

Ihanspal, we can relate because we have the same aged children :-)