Houston was warned by scientists but called them alarmists

Houston was warned by scientists but called them alarmists

Like climate disruption we have politics being the problem.

SCCRENDO | 2 September 2017

Thanks for the link MIke. It's time for the science deniers in general to start taking note and listen to scientists. While science does not always get everything right, following peer reviewed scientific facts brings you far closer to reality than your own random intuitions, religious beliefs, selfish greedy politicians and biased right wing news sources.

Mike83 | 2 September 2017

One doesn't need to give up religion to believe scientists but letting one industry control the politics is just plain dumb. I found this link for those people returning home to a flooded home. One thing that bothers me is mold. Very hazardous.

SCCRENDO | 2 September 2017

This is far from over. FEMA will be there for a decade. Prevention is better than cure

Mike83 | 2 September 2017

This is what scientists are saying about Harvey and not what DENIERS claim they say, again deniers attempt to never blame burning fossil fuels but try to scapegoat anything they can.

dchuck | 3 September 2017

Mike83, keep in mind the CBC article has nothing to do with DENIERS, climate, or even politics. its about people building on flood plains and not recognizing that FLOOD is right there in the title and that water will have no place to go but up if you put something solid beneath it.

Mike83 | 3 September 2017

Possibly 1 MILLION cars permanently damaged by Harvey. Be wary of people trying to sell flooded cars. This article has some advice.

imjoeysuncle2 | 3 September 2017

Im not an EV expert but I'd imagine a flooded EV is as bad as a flooded gas-fueled car? both "totaled" from an insurance viewpoint-any comments?

Mike83 | 3 September 2017

The most expensive part of the EV is the battery which is sealed and is probably OK. ICE cars have many more parts to be damaged.

Teetoogrn | 3 September 2017

Dchuck, the question is does man's activities to date have any affect on the frequency and severity of those flood events. I'm sure it's hard to accept our actions as possible contributors. And if we have contributed, are we willing to change our behavior to improve things?

blue adept | 3 September 2017


At this point it really isn't a question of whether or not we should be "willing" to change our behaviors as it is that the unfolding environmental disasters dictate that we must.

blue adept | 3 September 2017


Those people need dig their heads out of the sand.

Mike83 | 3 September 2017

LOL So true.

Al1 | 4 September 2017

The link above gives a pretty large list of what could possibly go wrong. From what I could understand ICE cars are clearly not any better.

Water can get into wires, transmission parts, the exhaust or other places. Deeper water could enter the cylinders that surround the pistons. Trying to start the car could bend parts that connect the pistons to the rest of the drive train, said John Nielsen, managing director of automotive engineering for AAA. Oil, gasoline, antifreeze, brake fluid and other liquids could have water in them that could cause damage if not replaced. Nielsen recommends having the car towed to a mechanic for inspection. Depending on the severity of flood damage, he says the cost of refurbishing a car likely will be more than replacing it.

Here comes an interesting part though. The cost of refurbishing a car likely will be more than replacing it. That's clearly about ICE cars. Electric cars have nowhere nearly as many parts and most of them can be replaced.

Most expensive part is battery indeed. However it is sealed. And besides even the electric battery has pretty decent salvage value. So the chances are pretty good you are still better off with an electric car.

Al1 | 4 September 2017

I am sure there will be more of that discussion as we get more data about impact of the flood on electric cars in particular.

From an owners perspective probably all Teslas currently on the road are insured and have full coverage. Yet what it costs to insurers is important as it will have impact on future insurance fees.

science-isbetter | 4 September 2017

Reminder. Plenty of smart Republicans are also supporting the warnings. It's the haters who see science conspiracies.

rxlawdude | 4 September 2017

It looks like our friends in Florida and the Carolinas may be next. Cat 3 at least, Cat 4 probable, Cat 5 possible.

Uncle Paul | 5 September 2017

Strong storms have been causing carnage as they come ashore since the beginning of recorded history.

Not sure if we can blame it on human caused climate change, or just climate.

We have had several years of below normal hurricane damage in the US. Would not be unusual for storms to revert to the average or even more than average in the coming years.

My biggest gripe is with our government continuing to provide below market rate insurance for coastal communities. Would be far better for us to locate our population centers inland where things are safer.

Low lying coastal communities should be discouraged from building in known storm paths.

SamO | 5 September 2017

@Uncle Paul,

Please explain why Houston is experiencing its 3rd 500 year flood in 3 years?

We can "blame it on humans."

rxlawdude | 5 September 2017

"My biggest gripe is with our government continuing to provide below market rate insurance for coastal communities. Would be far better for us to locate our population centers inland where things are safer.

Low lying coastal communities should be discouraged from building in known storm paths."

Agree. These should be considered "open space" and not zoned to build.

Dramsey | 5 September 2017


"Please explain why Houston is experiencing its 3rd 500 year flood in 3 years?"

Because the statisticians were wrong?

Guessing flooding probabilities is as dicey a prediction about a weather event as one can make. We don't have anywhere near 500 years' worth of data for what's now the Houston area, so the predictions are made based on what paltry weather records we do have, leavened with guesses about how the area would respond to X inches of rainfall in Y hours. Do they update the guesses to account for the effects decades of building? Beats me.

You can "blame it" on AGW, paving over swampland, or the wisdom of building in known flood plains. Maybe all three.

SUN 2 DRV | 5 September 2017

"You can "blame it" on AGW, paving over swampland, or the wisdom of building in known flood plains. Maybe all three."

Not sure why everyone is so concerned..., I heard from a high profile source that "It's called WEATHER!"

massimob30 | 5 September 2017

There were 14 Category 4 or greater hurricanes that made U.S. landfall from 1926 to 1969 — but only four from 1970 to 2017.

Devastating as Harvey is, it was not unprecedented. It tied for 14th among the worst U.S. hurricanes since 1851, says climatologist Judith Curry.


As bad as this was, there have been many worse with lower levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Mike83 | 5 September 2017

The 3% that deny fossil fuel burning causes climate disruption are FLAWED.

SCCRENDO | 5 September 2017

@massimo. Judith Curry is a well know denier who twists facts. Let's hear from NOAA
This is an objective scientific assessment.

SCCRENDO | 5 September 2017

Massimo. Here is your link that was Mollom infested. This is a 3 paragraph opinion vs the science I showed you.

rxlawdude | 5 September 2017

@SCC, I'm shocked that the Trump Administration hasn't deleted that page.

SCCRENDO | 5 September 2017

@rxlawdude. Don't think they understood the paper. Perhaps Remant, Should_I or massimob30 are their science editors

grabapencil | 6 September 2017

One thing I don't understand when it comes to climate change deniers is that they claim that CO2 fluctuation always happened in the history of Earth. But even climate change scientists agree with this, the alarming difference though are those CO2 graphs, showing rapid increase of CO2 above 400ppm since the Industrial Revolution. There is no denying of that. It's pure visualization of measured values.

SCCRENDO | 6 September 2017

@grabapencil. They cherry pick statements and then jump to conclusions. CO2 levels and temperatures may have been higher in the past. But that was way before humans existed. These present CO2 levels are higher than ever seen in human existence. Also there have been 5 major extinctions. We may be entering the 6th. High CO2 levels, higher temps, rising sea levels whether man made or natural are not good for our continued survival. So we should at least address the part that is induced by man.

Mike83 | 6 September 2017

The scientists that have denied man made Climate Disruption have been proven to use flawed data(the 3%) and/or there are those paid by fossil fuel interests to obfuscate the conclusions of the obvious. IMO paid to lie.
Luckily the world and most Americans are not fooled. Besides what is wrong with clean air, water free of lead, mercury and other toxins, land to enjoy for recreation like fishing, hunting, exploring and protecting watersheds, and creating jobs in a new industry.
To me its a no-brainier. By far the dumbest thing to do is to keep burning fossil fuels as it isn't necessary.
Perhaps some are suicidal or wishing for an Armageddon to prove some crazy point of view. I saw Limbaugh's name come up with another insane conspiracy theory and I hope he is not using Oxycontin again; his worshipers might not be thinking clearly.

Mike83 | 6 September 2017

More information on catastrophic hurricanes and burning fossil fuels. | 6 September 2017

On totaling an EV due to flooding (or an ICE car), ignoring mechanical components that may rust or corrode:

1) Mold alone may total the car - very hard to remove. Depends on how long the car is in water and how quickly the car is dried out.

2) Corrosion of the electrical connectors, wires, and electronics - this often causes strange intermittents and failures months after the car is seemingly repaired.

3) Damage to electronic modules - there are typically 30-80 of these modules throughout the car. Any that are flooded would have to be replaced.

Now an EV's battery pack seems to be able to handle a brief dip in a flood. If left for any prolonged period and/or deeply submerged, water may intrude. It is not designed to be a submarine and water pressure may break through the seals.

Mike83 | 6 September 2017
Remnant | 6 September 2017 (September 6, 2017)

<< On totaling an EV due to flooding ... Mold alone may total the car ... Corrosion of the electrical connectors, wires, and electronics often causes strange [intermittent failures], months after the car is seemingly repaired ... Damage to electronic modules ... >>

With Harvey, car flood damage has reached car manufacturing with issues of prevention. It is clearly unacceptable to lose millions of cars to floods and high water. Flood damage prevention should be made available, at least as an option, by all car manufacturers.

Range Rovers, Jeeps, and some military variants have provided the pioneering innovations in this area, but much more needs to be done. We should call on Tesla to rise to the challenge and provide the next step in this direction.

rxlawdude | 6 September 2017

" Flood damage prevention should be made available, at least as an option, by all car manufacturers."

When auto manufacturers make boats, you'll have your solution.

MitchP85D | 6 September 2017

You know what the gist of this thread is? I'll tell you. There are just too many damn people in this world. And they tend to congregate where they shouldn't. So, if we can just rid of all of those damn people, then the earth will be saved!

Meanwhile, let's check out some data. What is the big scare about global warming? The earth will heat up and melt the Arctic ice, thus drowning everybody near the coast. Well, let's take a look at the Arctic.

As of 05 SEP 2017, the NSIDC Arctic ice extent stands at 4.771 X 10^6 km2. This is 529,000 km2 ABOVE this date last year. It is also 279,000 km2 above 2015 on the same date. It doesn't appear the Arctic ice is cooperating with you global warming worshippers!

The Arctic temperature is currently as normal as it can be.

And, the Greenland ice has ended up near 150 gigatons above the 1981-2010 mean at the end of the melt season!

As much as you global warming worshippers want to believe it, the data just does not show any global warming alarm!

SCCRENDO | 6 September 2017

Mitch. You forgot to read the last paragraph of your Greenland link where they discuss those mysterious 200 Gigaton ice loss to calving.

"For an ice sheet that neither grows or shrinks, there is at all points averaged over the year a balance between

the amount of snow that falls and is compressed to ice
the amount of snow and ice that melts or evaporates (sublimates) and
the amount of ice that flows away due to the ice motion
The two first contributions make up the surface mass balance. For the ice sheet as a whole, there is a balance between the surface mass balance and the amount of ice that calves into the ocean as icebergs.

If climate changes, the surface mass balance may change such that it no longer matches the calving and the ice sheet can start to gain or lose mass. This is important to keep track of, since such a mass loss will lead to global sea level rise. As mentioned, satellites measuring the ice sheet mass have observed a loss of around 200 Gt/year over the last decade.

Greenland Climate Research Centre collaborates with DMI on research in both atmospheric impact on the Greenland Ice Sheet and the ice flow itself and its interaction with the rest of the climate system."

Also for your Arctic temps try plug in every for the last decade and you will also see that summer temps are no different but the winters can be 20 degrees warmer. Facts are terrible things Mitch. looks like your flood didn't teach you anything.

Mike83 | 7 September 2017

@SCCRENDO +100 Great explanation. Not too much science needed to understand.

SCCRENDO | 7 September 2017

@Mike. Thanks

Even Foxnews thinks climate change may be playing a role in these severe hurricanes. Come on Mitch and friends. Time to hop on board.

Mike83 | 7 September 2017

How long can they deny reality? It is going to cost more and more.

Mike83 | 7 September 2017

Speaking of costs there is a good analysis (reminiscing) about Who pays for the effects of Climate Disruption?

Uncle Paul | 7 September 2017

Why don't we find out who is causing these negative climate changes and make them stop?

Dofpic | 7 September 2017

Im with Mitch. I do not worship the gods of Global warming. Luke(bb0tin) I am your father(dofpic)

blue adept | 7 September 2017

Since when did climate change become a political advocacy issue?

Hell, when did our planet's climate become...political?!

RedShift | 7 September 2017


Go to Florida and tell everyone 'there have been hurricanes before, and there is no need to evacuate... these models that predict Irma's path are notorious for their inaccuracy'. I pity sad little ignoramuses like you man. I cannot believe the greatest country on this planet has dudes like you running around. Seriously. :-)

Also, you should get together with your boyfriend Mitch. Watching you try to ingratiate yourself to him while he continually suspects you of being whatsyourname is so funny!

rxlawdude | 7 September 2017

@Red, the opinions of the poorly educated are easily swayed by shiny objects. That's why most GOP is anti-intellectual and anti-education.

Did you see what deVos did today?

RedShift | 7 September 2017

No, been very very busy today. Just now I am getting to unwind. I don't think I have any interest in looking at more conservative dumbassery tonight though! :-)

SCCRENDO | 7 September 2017

@Uncle Paul. We found out. It's the Koch brothers, the fossil fuel companies, the automakers, many Republican congressman, and people like you Uncle Paul. Now tell me how to make you guys stop.
@Dofpic. you worship the god of unsubstantiated denial.

Mike83 | 8 September 2017
Jose is another one. Hard to believe so many strong ones. I hope they have good escape plans and places to be safe.