Green revolution is picking up steam...good stuff
I have seen the car inside and out. Altough I do not like small cars at all, this is a masterpiece. The space inside, back seat, trunk, excellent engineering. The design and materials used are really innovative. This is interesting as we would need real competition for S, to bring the cathegory up and push also Tesla for new hights. If they really would come out with i5, we have hope for serious boost in competition. Fuelcell range extender would be the technology step forward.
7999... I did cancel mine... ;-)
Looks like solid competition for the Model E.
When is the Model E available?
The i3 is so ugly.
Model E is probably coming out in 2018 based on what Elon Musk has said a few months ago. He is likely to give a more up to date prediction in November after the Q3 earnings are released.
I still cannot believe it. A huge company like BMW is not interested/cannot make a better range EV? Unfathomable.
Thank you Tesla.
I expect more from model E. This may be a good competition to Volt.
But numbers are promising. It is much harder to say there is no demand for electric cars.
Leaf sales will hit 100,000 by January including 5K in September 2013 worldwide. BMW i3 has 8,0000 orders before it launches. Electric car demand is there!
Think Tesla needs to introduce an affordable EV sooner than 5 years from now or it will miss the boat.
This is just a speculation, but do Nissan and BMW design ugly cars by purpose, so they don't sell too many? Because they can't get hold of enough batteries for a mass production?
"Think Tesla needs to introduce an affordable EV sooner than 5 years from now or it will miss the boat." Missed the Leaf, Volt or i3 boat? I don't think that's a problem for Tesla.
That said the more EV acceptance out there, no matter by which company, the better for the future of Tesla. Elon Musk's goal was always to push EV to become mainstream transportation. He was never interested to have a small pie all to himself.
CArlk - Seems Nissan is doing a better pushing EV as mainstream transportation as ~100K Nissan Leafs on road vs ~20K Teslas. Gap widening every day. In anycase, more EV's the better.
The concept with the glass doors looked kinda cool, but obviously NOT chance of getting those into production. Without that, it looks like it should have hip-hop hamsters in it.
email@example.com | 14 OTTOBRE 2013 NUOVO
I still cannot believe it. A huge company like BMW is not interested/cannot make a better range EV? Unfathomable.
Thank you Tesla.
Almost 300 km range with only 9 litres of gas as a range extender is pretty damn good for a $45k daily driver.
Charges nice and fast too. As fast as 30 minutes. I think BMW is hitting this one out of the park. Especially if you can refuel those 9 litres to recharge and eliminate range anxiety! I'm not yet sure if that is the capability but if it is, we can expect more automakers jumping onboard.
Lookout Tesla . The stampede is coming.
A lot of those BMW I3 reservations are customers that really wanted a Tesla Model S, but they couldn't afford it. And the Leaf is too down market for them also.
Those BMW orders would likely get a Model E (Gen III) if it was out already. I would go so far as to say that Tesla's success inspired most of those BMW I3 orders because they couldn't wait till 2016 for Model E.
I have a hard believing that 8K number (unless that includes Europe).
BMW i3 Rivals Tesla Model S....
Tesla window may be very small...
BMW's New Electric Car to Rival Tesla Model S | BMW Electric Car
I wonder where all of those Leafs are? I've seen three Model S cars here in Phoenix, have yet to see my first Leaf.
@SMinnihan Don't forget Nissan arrived that number because they have been selling Leaf since 2010. If you read this forum you will see many Leaf owner or potential Leaf owner ended up buying an MS even it's a twice as expensive car. That's why I say it's actually better for main stream auto companies to sell more EV and call attention to their customers. It is not a zero sum game.
Strictly speaking Tesla is still the only company that is making legitimate electrical vehicle where a full charge can go the distance as conventional ICE cars. It will likely be this way for a while because of Tesla's lead in battery technology. Nissan's battery cost per kWh is said to be twice as much as Tesla and BMW's is even more. That's why those companies could only make small EV with limited range and Toyota and MB have to buy battery packs from Tesla.
@JamesM What you said could be true. The other side of this is many of those people may never had an interest in EV until they heard what BMW is doing. There is a chance when they start to investigate EVs and found MS is a much better car, there is certainly no argument of that, and ended up buying the MS instead. All the publicity of EV, no matter from which company, can only benefit Tesla. That's what Elon has always been saying.
I like BMW ... I owned one for 10 years before I bought my Model S ... but that is one of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. Very disappointed.
The electrical part of the the i3 look great. Decent range(even without the extender), good rate of charging, attractive interior. What happened to the body design style. Back to the drawing board.
The next car I'm waiting to see is the B class Mercedes electric.
Lith I M
"I have a hard believing that 8K number (unless that includes Europe)."
Nowhere I found indication of some specific market, so for sure it is global number.
The BMW reservation list doesn't require a $5,000 or $40,000 deposit, so I doubt the list is as solid as a Tesla reservation list.
"~100K Nissan Leafs on road vs ~20K Teslas. Gap widening every day".
This is not apples to apples comparison. Nissan is at a different price point and by definition the size of its market is much bigger.
Tesla is making money on each car it sells. Nissan likely looses money on each Leaf.
Nissan sells globally since 2010 and before recent substantial drop in price its US sales were struggling.
Tesla sells since January 2013 in the US and only a month or two in Europe. And that's it.
Their month on month sales in the US are comparable. Nissan doesn't have too much of inventory at dealers', whereas Tesla has months of waiting list. In Europe the waiting time is much bigger.
Sweet Jesus! I just saw my first picture of the I3! That thing makes the Leaf look attractive and the Volt look like a work of art!
It's not supposed to look like the Model S. It's an urban commuter. Regardless of what those here think, reviews at the unveiling were almost all positive.
@SMinnihan Think Tesla needs to introduce an affordable EV sooner than 5 years from now or it will miss the boat.
What boat? Nobody besides Tesla has made anything close to a reasonably-ranged pure EV yet at any price, and I don't see it happening between now and Gen3.
All the major manufacturers know how to do is baby steps, apparently. They have lost the ability to think in terms of game-changing technology. That's why all big companies eventually go under.
"It's an urban commuter".
And so is Smart from Mercedes. Isn't it? But neither is a competitor to Model S.
"Regardless of what those here think, reviews at the unveiling were almost all positive".
And I am glad they are doing it. It's all good. However if it is meant to regain from Tesla the market share of US luxury cars Tesla took earlier from BMW I don't think it can. Let's see if it can at least preserve the market share of luxury cars elsewhere including Germany from Tesla Model S making inroads.
As an Urban commuter however sure! Why not?
I believe that is ONLY the reservations in EUROPE. I cannot see where/how one can make a reservation YET for the i3 anywhere other than Europe.
Looks like the standard range is about the same as a Leaf (95 miles).
Regarding the looks, from the BMW site:
"The front of the BMW i3 makes the vehicle immediately recognisable as a member of the BMW family. The modern interpretation of the kidney grille as well as the clear LED headlights (optional) with the U-shaped daytime running lights immediately catch the eye"
It catches the eye like a three legged dog...
I would be thrilled if the i3 is successful - it starts the appetite for longer range EVs... more potential customers for Tesla until the other guys have figured out how to make a 200+ miles EV.
A coworker just leased a Fiat 500e. Guess what - they cleaned out the garage, this week they have sheet rock installed,... and later they want to paint the floor ( I am not done yet with my garage yet but I lean towards a cork floor ). Point is pattern is the same - once you get used to an EV you may opted for the more range with the next car. By the way they have the same electrical grin on their faces driving that little red electrical devil.
The i3 would have been ok even with the limited range and goofy exterior looks if it had killer handling. On the contrary it has skinny little pizza cutter tires that just won't hack it for any serious driving. BMW is supposed to be the driver's car.
What were they thinking?!
You are right. My guess is BMW still could not get the battery cost down to close to even the MS level. That is likely the main reason of the design/size/performance compromises and the high price. There is question the GenIII will be able to do much better in terms of price/performance than the i3. Even the 40kWh MS, if it's still available, would beat the heck of the i3 in accommodation and performance at about the same cost. Tesla is way ahead in EV technology than any other established auto companies. Elon and those engineers weren't just staying in the labs play video games in the last ten years. It will take a while for the competitors to even catch up.
The looks aside i3 is just an (very) expensive Volt other than the Volt has a standard ICE extender while it's an option on i3. I know there are people who will buy a BMW instead of GM no matter what so BMW will probably sell a pretty number of i3. Again it's all good for Tesla that this will grab more BMW owners/fans attention to EV and Tesla. It's a double sided sword and the reason why the main stream auto companies have been slow in reaction to the EV revolution.
"There is *no* question the GenIII will be able to...."
missed the *no*.
I talked to my wife about getting her an I3, lease, while we wait for the Model E. She refuses to be seen in that thing. If her current car dies we'll lease a Leaf because at least it looks better!
That Leafs two things to take note of (hope that puns wasn't too bad)
A) She won't get one but we almost put in a reservation. I am sure many reserved just to get in line and they are waiting on the final product.
B) As soon as the Model E comes out we would have ditched the I3 for a real BEV.
I still think it is a very good sign and I hope BMW does really well introducing BEVs/hybrids to the market. Once people realize how little they use the gas portion of the car they will more than likely purchase a real BEV with increased range.
@Sudre; I think you're right. People driving around in a Volt, or an I3, not to mention a Leaf, will start to get antsy as they run out of E range. They'll start thinking about upgrading their range, if nothing else, and what will they turn to...?
I am considering buying a Model S but the reviews of the BMW i3 being positive make me think that perhaps I should test drive both before making a decision. The latter is half the price.
I believe the BMW i3 will take more sales away from Chevy than Tesla.
A neat feature of the BMW i3 is you can swap it for a BMW X3 if you are taking a weekend vacation trip skiing, etc. Feature will be appealing to those interested in 0 emmissions EV commuter car, but want larger BMW with range for family weekend trips. Cool idea.
IMO, if you are in the market for an EV, you aren't going to choose a hybrid. If you are in the market for a hybrid, then you probably aren't looking for an EV...
I just dont think that these are competing head to head. Now for those that WANT a Tesla but cannot afford it, may decide to get a hybrid until an affordable Tesla comes out, but that isnt taking sales AWAY from Tesla because they couldn't afford it anyway...
Just my opinion of course.
I agree. This BMW I3 is a Chevy Volt killer.
It is not competing for Tesla Model S customers.
Laid out on a models skateboard tho'.
I've always loved BMW--coveted the M5 for as long as I can remember. I went to Munich to pick up my 540i6, the result of an enthusiast's forum not unlike this one. I wouldn't take an i3 as a free prize, what with taxes and all.
good to see EV's taking off.
but no matter how much reservations BMW has, nor how long I look at it : it's still an ugly car.
The i3 is a four seater citycar. Range is good enough for that scenario and with the range extender you can go 340 km. It does look way better IRL. It does have some unique thing like the carbon/lightweight materials. Personally thin four seater was a misstake. Would fit my family perfect as a second car. The tesla model S is not competing with this car. Sure both are EV but that is the only thing, totally different segments and scenarios. Tesla is a panamera/M6 compete not i3. I8'would be closer but again very different scenario...
I did order a i3 as it would have been a perfect second car. Then i did drive the p85+... Changed my order to a Tesla... The tesla is more of a jack of all trades.
Agree that Tesla must speed up the midmarket car release. The model S is way to expensive formthe broad market. Expandingmto europe, asia will sell a lot more cars... But nothing near the midmarlet segment. The Volt,is a disaster in all markets but the US. Sorry we dont buy GM no matter if they are called Opel or vaxhaul. Still garbage GM... ;-)
Leaf looks terrible but sells well in the low midmarket segment due to no other options...
Many cars in the pipeline... I3, i8, Volvo C30, audi etron, Mercedes "weltclasse". Even heard Toyota will release a real EV instead of the junk hybrid pruis thing. ;-)
Question is if Tesla can scale out quickly enough... Many challenges with quick growth... Customer service and brand perception can risk taking a major hit if done to quickly. Do it right vs stress out new models. Pretty sure Elons plan is to do it right vs go for the easy money.
I think that BMW huge investment in EVs and lightweight materials will make them the number one competitor moving forward. I3 and i8 is just the start. Heavy rumours of a i5 that is more of a 5-series EV and moving more head to head with model S.
Lovely times for EVs.., ;-)
"I think that BMW huge investment in EVs and lightweight materials"
You might get some answer of how Tesla is positioned against the competitions if you start to think why is that all competitors are trying to make very small and light weight EV and plug in?
You can add this if you still can't get the answer: why is the competitions could only offer very limited EV range even with all the size and weight compromises.
When asked about BMW's i3 during Tesla's last quarterly conference call, Elon and the questioner shared a hearty chuckle at BMW's expense... http://zshahan.podbean.com/mf/play/3ay4y/ElononBMWi3.m4a
Maybe Elon should not laugh so much. For a city car the i3 have some serious engineering. The i5 is coming in a few years. Then tesla will meet competition for the first time. Who makes the best mobile phones now? Apple or Samsung?