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EAP NOA keeps getting better and better.

EAP NOA keeps getting better and better.

It has been a while since I drove the car but had to do an airport run tonight in heavyish traffic. While I was a bit freaked in heavy traffic going very fast it worked flawlessly. Lane changes were crisp with no slowing down and ambiguity on lane hunting when coming to a merge was minimal.

Super impressed.

coselectric | July 15, 2019

I was thinking the same thing just yesterday. I use EAP routinely on the same stretch of interstate and don't see much difference in behavior (it's always worked great), but yesterday I played with it on a curvy local 6-lane 40-45 mph road where it used to struggle with the sharper curves and occasional breaks in lane markings, especially through stoplight intersections. It's probably been 6 months since I tried it on this road, and today it worked flawlessly for about a 5 mile stretch. I know it's not "intended" for use on roads like this, but it's fun to play with (cautiously), and thrilling to see the thing drive so well on a residential street. I feel like it used to hesitate at intersections and refuse to do lane changes on this road, but yesterday there was no hesitation going through intersections, no problems changing lanes, nothing.

Sometimes I kind of regret not jumping on the FSD firesale to get the better neural net chip (someday), but clearly the 2.5 hardware is still pretty awesome.

coselectric | July 15, 2019

Sorry, just noticed the "NOA" in your thread title. I wasn't using NOA - totally forgot it existed - but now you've got me thinking I need to play with that some more too. My comments were just based on EAP performance.

Magic 8 Ball | July 15, 2019

I actually edited that in while you replied. You did not miss it.

coselectric | July 15, 2019

I appreciate that, thought I was losing my mind for a minute.

shank15217 | July 15, 2019

What fw m8b?

shank15217 | July 15, 2019

What fw m8b?

Magic 8 Ball | July 15, 2019

Huh?

Magic 8 Ball | July 15, 2019

24.4 off my game at 3 am.

Magic 8 Ball | July 15, 2019

20.4.4 oops.

dmastro | July 15, 2019

I’m glad it’s working better for some. I was driving a couple friends to SF yesterday early morning (5am) so not much traffic. I was acquainting then with all the cool Tesla stuff and we decided to try NOA.

I turned it on right after I made a lane change and NOA proceeded to make a lane change immediately, at an inopportune time so I had to change lanes back again.

A minute later it tried to change into the wrong lane, which would have taken us to the east exit instead of west.

Over the next couple miles it tried to change lanes to the left to pass, except faster traffic was passing f on my left and I would have cut them off, so I had to cancel each attempt and initiate when it was safe to do so.

We turned off NOA for the rest of the trip. But EAP without NOA worked perfectly and I’m very happy with that.

And discovered that charging is free using the ChargePoint chargers in the parking garage at Ghirardelli Square.

vmulla | July 15, 2019

@dmastro,
the question is if it's better than before or not.

There will be bugs, oddities - report them. If things look bad I share them, it's good that the community knows these edge cases to stay safe.

coselectric | July 15, 2019

Last time I used NOA was to drive a couple friends to a hockey game in Denver, about a 70 mile interstate trip. I think it was 2 or 3 months ago, no idea which FW (I'm on 20.4.4 now, just checked). It was fantastic the whole way, even through the last ten miles of bumper to bumper traffic in Denver. It really reduced my stress level about the heavy traffic and made the drive much more enjoyable than it would have been. We were all floored every time the car decided to change lanes on its own, into and out of faster lanes. It only did one questionable thing, which is that when we were getting close to our exit and it started changing lanes to get over to the exit, one of the lane changes was out of a faster moving lane into a slower moving lane - as you would expect - and the car in front in the new lane stopped abruptly and we didn't have room to get completely into the new lane so it left our car's rear end sticking out in the previous lane. That was the only time I grabbed control to nudge it all the way into the new lane so we weren't blocking traffic until our lane started moving. We all laughed at that; otherwise it was fantastic. One of my friends is a Model S owner with older hardware that doesn't support NOA, and he was amazed. The other guy, I think, thought he was in an alien spacecraft.

vmulla | July 15, 2019

@coselectric,
You've described the most common challenge with NOA - and it's non technical.
When the car makes and reverses it's decision to merge it keeps the other drivers guessing about Tesla's intentions. It just looks odd.
This is neighter a safety or a tech problem, but rather a challenge to make a safe system that also behaves like a human.
I was surprised when my current firmware tried to merge into the next lane two times at 70+ mph and aborted the maneuver, all within a few seconds. Ofcourse I got honked at, and I was a bit flustered myself. Definitely the car tried to keep me safe, but also presented unintentional risks (from folks around me)

jjgunn | July 15, 2019

We need the system to behave BETTER than humans. Otherwise there is no way it passes regulatory approval.

Regardless....it's impressive in it's current state & it will get better.

vmulla | July 15, 2019

@jjgunn,
I think it's already better than humans overall - just the fact that the system does not have an attention span or fatigue problem makes it better.

For now, the trick is to know where the system performs well, and not. That awareness helps us enjoy the system more. I believe we need to share these edge cases where the system is challenged, that's to keep the community safety up. Now, we know that's not the same point of view from everyone on the forum - but that's ok.

If we know something won't work, it's not right to just sit by and let others discover the limitations themselves. So there is absolutely the other side responsible ownership of a beta system. Not just celebrating advancements, but also sharing limitations.

As far as how much better the system is, I'm happy to share my bug report thread from February 2018 - it's truly impressive how far we came in less than 2 years.

dmastro | July 15, 2019

@vmulla: To your point, it seemed to behave very similar to the way it did when it first rolled out. Currently on 20.4.2.

Techy James | July 15, 2019

I will admit for me the NoAP is fairly spot on. I tested this about 6 months ago and found the following items I would say could be improved.
1) When you have a lane change for upcoming exit it tends to wait till your less than 3/4 miles away from exit before deciding to actually change lanes. Some might like this behavior, I prefer to make lane change around the 2.5 to 3 miles before exit. Maybe an optional setting could help here.
2) The logic on when to change lanes for slower traffic ahead. Sometimes is spot on and signals and changes lanes without having to slow down. Other times it decides to stay in the lane and not do a lane change.
3) Your between the 1.5 to 3 miles from your exit and it will decide to move into a faster lane to get around traffic. I see this on an exit I take occasionally and that exit is known to get backed up for traffic exiting the Highway.

jjgunn | July 15, 2019

All good points...I'm hoping for the Black Friday sale on FSD for my P3D. MX already has it.

Probably will never happen but I hope.

calvin940 | July 15, 2019

Tried it for the first time this weekend on a fairly small trip but I thought it performed extremely well. Sample size of 1 of course doesn't really mean much, but had it performed poorly, would have been telling. It performed very well with no unpredictability and I was very happy with the experience. Will be using it every opportunity I get.

vmulla | July 15, 2019

@calvin940,
It does extremely well with well spaced out traffic on highways. You still have to watch it closer to interchanges though.

calvin940 | July 15, 2019

"It does extremely well with well spaced out traffic on highways. You still have to watch it closer to interchanges though."

I can understand how that is a more challenging problem to solve. I don't live an a large population area so our traffic isn't on the scale as the big/major cities that you folks have indicated in other threads.

I hope to do more driving in the next couple of years that ill expose me to some of the higher traffic zones.

aptwo | July 15, 2019

@magic,

What's your setting for lane change? is it mad max mode?

Joshan | July 15, 2019

I think people really misunderstand what MadMax is causes people to complain.

I read a post today where a person said it wanted to go left in the passing lane just before their exit coming up. All I could think was "they are on mad max"...

MadMax does not make the car change lanes faster or in tighter spaces. I think this is what people are assuming it does.

MadMax is how often your car changes lanes based on certain factors. So if will change lanes more often based on what is happening around you and for smaller thesholds. For example, iy you have your speed set to 80, but the car in front of you is doing 76. On a normal setting it will stay there, on MadMax it is going to try and go around them. Those number are made up though as I do not know the actual algorithm.

I find the ride much better not on mad max, as my car stopped asking to change lanes every 2 minutes

Joshan | July 15, 2019

I do say the above as my opinion, as the actual tesla verbage says different. But play with it and you will see. I did extensive testing.

LikeLightning | July 15, 2019

@M8B - I’m on 20.4.2. Had similar experience and said the exact same thing to my wife while we took a longer trip than usual downtown (Chicago) and used EAP. Noticeably improved: smoother, more decisive lane changes, etc. My wife can't wait to get the Y we have on order.

M3BlueGeorgia | July 15, 2019

@dmastro
Suggest you try NoA WITHOUT the automatic lane change option set.

IMHO The lane change recommendation algorithm isn't good enough for people to activate the automatic lane change feature.

Note: I use NoA as much as possible on road trips.

cnistal1 | July 15, 2019

20.4.4
Used NOA this Sat from LA to Palm Desert. Normally use it on this route, 2.5hrs. I would agree that it continues to improve. Specifically, the lane changes are smoother. Have never tried "Mad Max" setting however.

dmastro | July 15, 2019

@M3BlueGeorgia: I use whatever feature keeps me in my lane and avoids crashing into cars ahead of me... I call it original EAP. And I really like that feature. Is that what you're referring to?

eplaskett | July 15, 2019

I must say that EAP seems significantly improved in 2019.20.4.2. I have been seeing very little in the way of phantom braking, and lane changes are fairly rapid and confident. I am still not using NOA on my metro Atlanta commute; until they have some map issues here resolved, that's a fool's errand, but I have little doubt that it's working well in other areas and would not hesitate to use it on a road trip, though I still prefer confirmation of lane changes with the stalk.

vmulla | July 15, 2019

20.4.2??
That's what I have and didn't notice anything. I guess nothing is actually good.

I thought you guys were talking about the newer update that I'm washing on. Let's see

r1200gs4ok | July 15, 2019

sorry but what is NOS and EAP....new and dont know all the acronyms

Magic 8 Ball | July 15, 2019

EAP = Enhanced Auto Pilot
NOA = Navigation On Autopilot

EAP has been replaced with AP (auto pilot) + FSD capable. (In other words to get EAP function now you must purchase the FSD capable package.

RES IPSA | July 15, 2019

I like what some of consider to be the old EAP features... NOA needs some more work. It will changes lanes to the right but opps... that lane is an exit only lane 500 feet ahead.

A few times it has slowed down to below 35 mph on the freeway to change lanes to make the exit (a violation of CA law since traffic was moving along at 65 mph... bad timing with lots of cars in the lane the car needed to change into). NOA should have just sped up to make the lane change at the beginning.

howard | July 16, 2019

Well, thought I would try it again on the way back from the airport last night. It still does not track the lane properly when the white line on the right disappears due to an off-ramp or on-ramp. This should not still be happening. Why can it not track the lane properly? At one point when the white line on the right disappeared it started moving to the right, I guess to try and center itself between the left line and the off ramp and then when the dashed white line on the right suddenly reappears (now almost in the center of the car) it made a pretty abrupt move to the left. Perhaps this is where the high-definition geo-mapping data might work better overlayed on the neural net data. How can it not know where the ramps are? I am sure a lot of Teslas run this route to and from the airport.

It is still not overly smooth in tracking the lane either. I find it quite uncomfortable to use. Back off again, till the next release. Disappointing.