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TACC Doesn’t Stop

TACC Doesn’t Stop

I’ve experienced this issue twice with my M3 2019.20.4.2: In TACC it got within 28” of the car ahead and I think it only stopped because I braked. One time I was going downhill (more common to have this issue downhill) but the other time it was on a flat section of the freeway. Both times I was paying attention and couldn’t take getting any closer and braked to prevent from hitting the car in front of me. I purposely got a little closer the second time to see if the car would stop in time, it did not. The car alarmed and said out I was 28” away from the car ahead of me. It may have alarmed because when I hit the brake, the TACC turned off and the Tesla was “barking" at me for being too close. 99% of the time the TACC works great. But for a vehicle almost ready for more autopilot features, TACC should stop 100% of the time. I think the TACC distance was set to 2 car lengths. I plan to experiment with 3 car length setting. What is going on?

Magic 8 Ball | July 19, 2019

Yup, no one has to engage with me yet they try to blame me for their own behavior.

Mike UpNorth | July 19, 2019

Why do I get the feeling the model S and X forums don't have a flagging issue.....hmmm

Joshan | July 19, 2019

does Fish post there? this flagging stuff all started because he was out of control and we had to self police. I have never flagged a single post that was not from Fish myself.

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan, Thank you for your insightfulness. On the other hand, being constantly criticized, attacked, called a liar, called a GM plant, told "my car works perfectly" by nearly everyone else so it must be your stupidity. The list can go on and on. I am sure if you're honest with yourself you can see this pattern for yourself. So yes when a post comes up that is asking for feedback on an issue that I think is deficient I post my experiences. It is somewhat amazing to me how the same "fake" issues keep coming up by different people, but like me they are stupid, idiots, infiltrators, non-owners, FUDsters, etc. etc. etc. Just wondering what you expect??

Joshan | July 19, 2019

doh I just lied, I flagged his waterboy this morning.

Magic 8 Ball | July 19, 2019

Did the threat to take legal action against TESLA here get someone in trouble?

Joshan | July 19, 2019

@howard I do agree with you. There are crazies on both sides :)

Arent you able to post your opinions without shoving your chevy love down everyones throat though? Its like going to McDonalds and you have a bad burger. If you edxplain your burger is bad they are likely to listen and try to help. If you just keep telling them how much better Burger King is they are going to tell you to GTFO.

howard | July 19, 2019

You have to go way back to understand this issue Joshan. It did not start out this way. I must admit that when the Burger King burger is thrown in your face prior to your getting to McDonald's to order a burger it does make a difference. When other vehicles (it is not just chevy) perform better I am just a bit at a loss as to why that is an issue. LOL

Joshan | July 19, 2019

I will admit, I have only been here since January and am still catching up. There is a lot of history I am not aware of and I can only speak from a 6 month view.

You do seem like a nice passionate who seems to really prefer his volt over his M3. I have never driven a volt so I will not comment on them.

lbowroom | July 19, 2019

Howard, you can start by using the cars systems as intended. Don't compare Chevy dynamic cruise with ping pong lane keep to TACC with lane keep. Compare it to tack with Autosteer. Don't state that the Chevy dynamic cruise is so much better and smoother than AP unless you factor in that AP is paying attention to cars in the lanes next to you and braking if it senses they may be drifting into your lane when the dynamic cruise on the Chevy could care less about the cars in the lane next to you.

howard | July 19, 2019

lbowroom, Your kidding right. I don't use AP at all. I do use cruise control on both the Volt (adaptive cruise) and on the Tesla (TACC). The TACC which is supposed to perform as adaptive cruise is what I am comparing. Everyone wants to throw AP in there claiming that is the issue and AP is so much better and is getting better every release. Give it up. I don't use AP at all. Only briefly with every new update and then I don't use it again. This is part of the ongoing frustration. I am comparing Apples to Apples and no one here likes it. I have offered numerous times for anyone to drive my Volt. Heck give me a date and if I am in CO I'll make a special trip to AZ especially for you.

lbowroom | July 19, 2019

exactly

Joshan | July 19, 2019

ACC only cares about the car in front of you.
TACC watches the entire the street as its part of AP. They are not decoupled.

This is why people say "oh phantom braking!!" no... a car half a block up turned left in front of you so it braked (that system is too sensitive right now). Or some other reason that TACC saw and reacted too.

One day you may appreciate it when TACC saves your life from some idiot turning in front of you when ACC woulda just smacked them. TACC is part of the FSD tooling and you cannot just think of it as "cruise control" and ignore the "traffic aware" part of it.

lbowroom | July 19, 2019

Thank you Joshan. That's a better explanation for Howard. I hope he can understand his perception of "better" is limited to a smaller set of functionality.

Joshan | July 19, 2019

it is always easier to do things better when you are doing less things.

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan,

Maybe but till then I will not take the risk of being rear-ended for no apparent reason due to phantom abrupt slow down/braking. The rest of you can keep your foot hovering over the accelerator in anticipation of the slow down. Some have even commented by others as well that can they can predict the phantom slowdown braking and turn it off or keep their foot on the accelerator.

It would seem that Tesla defines TACC as "adaptive cruise" just like my Volt functions. I don't see the other functions you mention in their description from Tesla's web site.

Will I still have standard cruise control during the trial?
No. During the trial, your Tesla will be updated with Traffic-Aware Cruise Control instead of standard cruise control. This means when you engage cruise control, your Tesla will automatically adjust speed according to the flow of surrounding traffic.

The real issue is everyone wants to blame the sudden slowdowns and breaking as part of AP safety features when it is not.

Joshan | July 19, 2019

it is, but there is no point in arguing when you arent going to listen. The text you quoted actually proves my point not yours.

Will I still have standard cruise control during the trial?
No. During the trial, your Tesla will be updated with Traffic-Aware Cruise Control instead of standard cruise control. This means when you engage cruise control, your Tesla will automatically adjust speed according to the flow of surrounding traffic.

The flow of SURROUNDING traffic, not just the car in front of youl.

howard | July 19, 2019

Oh my goodness you are right this is totally rediculous when adaptive cruise by any other name is called AP. Sorry, it is intended to be plain old adaptive cruise. Congradulations you have graduated to the head of the deflect and deny class.

howard | July 19, 2019

Sorry, not class "gang".

Joshan | July 19, 2019

you just posted something that makes no sense whatsoever. Why do you just ignore facts and jump to hysterics?

Again...

ACC = cares only about your speed or the car in front of you
TACC = cares about every car around you

Is it that hard to understand? wtf...

Its NOT another name, its a completely different technology.

Magic 8 Ball | July 19, 2019

Howard screwed himself with crappy window tint, his car will never work right ; ).

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan "automatically adjust speed according to the flow of surrounding traffic." In other words adaptive cruise.

TACC = cares about every car around you. No, it does not.

There are AP and NoAP they are the advanced predecessors to FSD. There are FCW, LDA, ELDA, BSCW, AEB, and O-A they are the advanced safety features.

If TACC is as you claim monitoring everything around you then why does it not match the speed of cars passing you when you pull out behind it. According to you, it should not slow down because it is aware of everything around it. Hate to burst your bubble but it will brake hard when it should not. Same thing for the car going faster than you cutting in front of you pulling away from you and your Tesla brakes hard. Why did it not see it coming and understand that it is moving faster than you and not brake?

My Volt by your definition has more traffic awareness "TACC+" because it does not brake when it should not.

More deflection and denial. Please keep going!

Joshan | July 19, 2019

ok I give up, either you are too stubborn or not smart enough toi have this conversation. I am not deflecting I am stating FACTS. You need to educate yourself and come back son. Just like on the other thread with the lvl 5 "geofence".

Stop talking about things you do not know, it makes you look foolish.

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan, M8B could not say it better. Congratulations I think the full membership is on its way.

Joshan | July 19, 2019

once again, no facts so just go to insults. Its your MO and all you got. Its kinda sad actually.

Joshan | July 19, 2019

kinda reminds of of someone with cheeto colored skin

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan, what do you expect when you are the one that does not consider the facts. It is what all of us deal with on both sides. Just polarized views with no consideration of the other. But I understand and my apologies. You are right I should not be insulting. I am very sorry. Best of wishes for your weekend.

lbowroom | July 19, 2019

Howard, why oh why on earth are you sure TACC doesn’t look at everything around it?

Joshan | July 19, 2019

ok since you were nice I will go line by line...

Joshan "automatically adjust speed according to the flow of surrounding traffic." In other words adaptive cruise.

No adaptive cruise will only adapt to the car directly in fron of you in your lane.

TACC = cares about every car around you. No, it does not.

Well maybe you should tell that to Tesla and their programmers. Because they talk all the time about how it does and the text YOU POSTED says that exact thing.

There are AP and NoAP they are the advanced predecessors to FSD. There are FCW, LDA, ELDA, BSCW, AEB, and O-A they are the advanced safety features.

Ok we agree on that I guess...

If TACC is as you claim monitoring everything around you then why does it not match the speed of cars passing you when you pull out behind it. According to you, it should not slow down because it is aware of everything around it. Hate to burst your bubble but it will brake hard when it should not. Same thing for the car going faster than you cutting in front of you pulling away from you and your Tesla brakes hard. Why did it not see it coming and understand that it is moving faster than you and not brake?

Ok this was a wall of text with many points, let me try to take them one by one.

I do not even understand what the first sentence says. "match the speed of the cars passing you when you pull out behind it" What does that mean?
I think I get what you are trying to say, but you are not making it very clear. Why would my car match the speed of a car in an adjacent lane? You also state it will slam on the brakes if someone cuts you off. This is true and by design I would assume. Would you rather it slammed them in the ass and the accident os your fault? How would TACC know their intention? It has to keep what it "thinks" is a safe distance it can react from.

My Volt by your definition has more traffic awareness "TACC+" because it does not brake when it should not.

NO NO NO, It has les traffic awareness and that is why it doesn't brake. It doesn't give two craps what is happening around you. It ONLY CARES ABOUT THE CAR INT FRONT OF YOU IN YOUR LANE. I have ACC in my Acura RDX, I am very familiar with the difference.

More deflection and denial. Please keep going!

I did not deflect or deny anything. I am trying to educate you so we can have a rational discussion. You could come back and tell me if what I say is true that TACC sucks. Ok thats your opinion and I would have to accept it. But you are stating things that are deomstrably false.

Just because I am feeling nice and it may save you looking foolish on the other thread. Geofenced level 5 = level 4. Level 5 means ANYWHERE.

vmulla | July 19, 2019

@Joshan,
TL;DR other posts

So you expect folks not to reply back when integrity is questioned, ridiculed for providing an honest opinion? Unfortunately, I started out on this forum caring about the voice inside me and nothing else - that has a steep price this forum.

Here's an experiment for you, go back to my posts in Feb 2018 (if you really care) let's see if you see a trace of anything other than complete admiration for the car.

Joshan | July 19, 2019

@vmulla of course I want people to reply back. This is a forum we are here to discuss. But I prefer to stick to the facts. Opinions are fine as long as you state them as such, and we can debat ethose also.

The problem is when people post flat our false statements. I am not going to say lies as maybe there is just confusion or something. I di not think Howard is a bad guy. I am trying to have a rational discussion with him (This has been going on for abot a week now ion multiple threads, don't judge our responses to eachother by just this thread).

I have been attacked also and not just by the fish crew, but by people in the so called "gang" also. It is what it is, I am a big boy.

What from my last post prompted you to post that to me? Seems to me you are more upset than Howard. I replied to every single point he had, I used no insults and tried to stick to only facts and not my opinion,

Joshan | July 19, 2019

@vmula so you are admitting you are letting other peoples "bad" behavior affect you. Why? Why do you care what anyone on here thinks of you or your opinion of Tesla? Stay true to your thoughts and ideals and don't let other people change that.

I tried to say this when I was talking earlier about your thread about almost rear ending the car on your failed lane change. That was a great post, but you let yourself get sucked into a rabbit hole and completely changed your thoughts on what happened in a negative way. Again why?

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan, If I am in the rightmost lane behind a slower moving car and wait for a faster-moving car to my left to come past me and I move to the left to pass the car in front of me but move to fast the Tesla will hard brake. This is apparently due to the fact the Tesla does not recognize the car I pulled out behind is moving faster than me. It momentarily applies the brakes like I am going to hit it. My Volt does not do this. I can sweep right behind the faster car to my left and as long as it is going faster my Volt matches the speed till it hits my preset limit. This is how adaptive cruise should work.

lbowroom, to your point, if as stated TACC is monitoring all the traffic around the Tesla than why does it not realize that the car I just swept behind is actually moving faster than me. It does not it brakes instead.

This same scenario is true when I am in the right lane and a faster car cuts in front of me and is accelerating away from me my Volt does not care because it senses the car is moving faster than me. If the car that cuts in front of me is within the preset Tesla distance the Tesla will brake.

Not sure if that helps, but I hope it does.

Just because I am feeling nice and it may save you looking foolish on the other thread. Geofenced level 5 = level 4. Level 5 means ANYWHERE.

I finally found the reference down at the bottom of the page. You are correct. Geofenced is level 4.

https://www.automotivelectronics.com/sae-levels-cars/

Joshan | July 19, 2019

@howard Ok I see what you are saying now. Yes I agree with that and am "hoping" that HW3 corrects that issue. It was touched on during Autonomy day and how many cars it can track at one time. They said they cannot add any more right now due to compute restraints in HW2.5 but in HW3 it will be able to track I think he said "10x" more? I forget the nnumber.

But this is my "assumption" on that behavior. You can see what cars it is tracking based on their shading. I would be willing to bet, that car that passed you was not shaded. Growing pains :)

Joshan | July 19, 2019

to add to that so it makes sense. The car in the other lane was NOT shaded, so when you changed lanes it became "aware" of that car and freaked out for a minute as it did not know how fast they were going.

jstat10 | July 19, 2019

" If I am in the rightmost lane behind a slower moving car and wait for a faster-moving car to my left to come past me and I move to the left to pass the car in front of me but move to fast the Tesla will hard brake."

This is what I recall Subaru's Eyesight doing as well the Tesla. I would describe it as "slowing down until the selected following distance is reached, and then resuming the preset speed".

After years of using Eyesight, it seems normal, and easy for me to adapt to. If I don't want this behavior, I use the accelerator to override TACC (or Eyesight).

I can see the appeal of the Volt's approach. What does the Volt do if the car you pulled in behind slows down suddenly, e.g. was going 85, and suddenly hits the brakes and slows to 65?

howard | July 19, 2019

Joshan

I bought FSD purposfully to get HW3 when it come out. So I am continuing to put my money where my mouth is hoping for improvements. Contrary to the way I am made out to be I really like and enjoy driving my Tesla. Can't wait for the day it is at the level it should be. Have a good evening.

Joshan | July 19, 2019

you also Howard thanks for the Chat. Some day I may take you up on that Volt test Drive. What state are you anyways? I am Chicago.

howard | July 19, 2019

My office and home are in CO with the Tesla. I have a second home in Gilbert AZ where the Volt resides.

Please let me know if you are in either.

I have several customers in the Chicago area and spend a week at McCormick Place at the end of November exhibiting at the RSNA.

vmulla | July 20, 2019

Joshan | July 19, 2019
@vmula so you are admitting you are letting other peoples "bad" behavior affect you. Why? Why do you care what anyone on here thinks of you or your opinion of Tesla? Stay true to your thoughts and ideals and don't let other people change that.

I tried to say this when I was talking earlier about your thread about almost rear ending the car on your failed lane change. That was a great post, but you let yourself get sucked into a rabbit hole and completely changed your thoughts on what happened in a negative way. Again why?

======

@Joshan, and others,
I do not think I have to personality to take in people throw insults at me when I present facts. That's my thing to deal with.

Here's one facet of how I think, and I've shared it on other threads. Some truths are important to share, knowing a bug that could cause serious damage and keeping quiet about it is irresponsible, insulting folks who share that fact by saying something like 'it's in beta so shut up' is even worse. Saying my car doesn't have the problem is like knowing about any societal problem (take your pick) and saying I haven't experienced it. To me, it's the equivalent of saying you must be lying and/or I don't care. Saying go talk to tesla customer service is the same as - shut up ew want to cheer here and nothing else. Absolutely yes, folks should approach customer service first and if they wish they should share here - that's what the forum is for. I challenge you to find one post where I did not stand 100% behind the customer service folks (especially the folks at Tysons VA).

As far as opinions are concerned. Folks had an issue with the word 'disappointed' in my post about EAP fail - what? Is that too much opinion that the post had to flagged down? It wasn't following heated arguments that got flagged down, it was the core post. And YET, it's Ok when insults, innuendo, filthy language, ridicule is just fine.

Yes, I try as much to the center of the issue as I possibly can when I start a thread - do folks expect every ensuing post to start with 'In my opinion'? If that's the case this forum should be full of such disclaimers.

I know one thing - folks want to discredit me for whatever reason. I've known this long enough - each time they reply to me my post is right on top, and my title and the original post is the first thing most folks read. The folks who read the 3rd-page comments are mostly forum regulars who hold strong opinions one way or the other- they are not who I'm talking to.

Here's a challenge - based on what I share in my OP can you with good conscience flag me down?

ODWms | July 21, 2019

I have had it happen a few times. I also notice, while on NoA, the car will attempt to change lanes right in front of an approaching car in the intended lane, seemingly every time.

WardT | September 19, 2019

I received OTA update 32.2.2 last week and noticed a dramatic improvement in vehicle distance control when going down the same grade on the freeway where I had the problem of the Tesla not seeming to stop when it should. It was a strange OTA update for two reasons: There were no comments on what the update included and the number 32 did not change. The previous OTA update was 32.1 something and the new update was 32.2.2. I haven’t read all the BS going on with this thread.

spuzzz123 | September 19, 2019

Never had it not stop after 26k miles with a lot of stop n go tacc usage. Not saying it never happens just not to me.

dmastro | September 19, 2019

♫TACC Tock You Don't Stop♫

kallian | September 19, 2019

This 100%. If you dont understand these statements, you shouldnt use AP at all.
From manual as another poster mentioned

"may not brake/decelerate when a vehicle or object is only partially in the driving lane or when a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary or slow-moving vehicle or object is in front of you."

This is stationary object problem with radar, it is ignored even if its in front of you if it wasnt tracked as moving before. (just like the manual mentions if a tracked vehicle moves out of the lane and the object in front of you is a now an stationary object that was never tracked as moving, it will not brake and hit it.)

There was an accident in Russia about this exact situation with a partially occupying tow truck as the vehicle in front moved out of the way and now the stationary tow truck was collided in a Model 3 on AP.

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