To anyone who shared negative comments against owners that reported lowered range:
Not every observation has an ulterior motive - it could just be an honest observation.
I have a few questions/statements.
1, I currently lease a 2017 Ford Fusion energy PHEV. The electric miles always vary.
2. People that own ICE vehicles do NOT get anywhere near the EPA standards for MPG. WHY are EV owners so obsessed with the numbers?
3, with my phev, I see a number of factors for the varying of Electric.
A. My driving habits
This is a unique car, and there's quite a few owners who want to understand their car better.
Being honest with observations is part of the discovery process.
That's my mindset, others can speak for themselves.
@vmulla. I certainly understand that view point. Being with my PHEV lease for the last 3 years, compared to my previous car, A souped up 06 Mustang GT 5 speed, I have certainly become more AWARE of the PHEVs operations and how to drive it. I am sure that will only be UPPED by driving my new Model 3. With that being said, when I read some of the posts and responses, a LOT of the concerns can be chalked up to the A, B, and C I listed above.
Just for a second, think about every single ICE car out there. And imagine every single person FRETTING over their Estimated EPA MPG as opposed to actual MPG.
The world would turn upside down. Lmao
A big part about the EV movement started with folks who paid attention to wasted energy, and the environmental damage - so let's respect those folks who did their part :)
I believe in sharing good data, ideas, and open debate - that's what the forum is for. Negativity towards owners who share honest info about their cars is not helpful.
A few months ago we shared increased range due to software update, that was fine - but when someone observes a range drop because of software that's FUD?
@vmulla, please do not mistake my posts as negativity or disrespect towards others .
I too, am extremely environmentally conscientious.
You’re exactly right pg3ibew. People that drive ICE pay little attention to their “range” or how it compares to the advertised range. They simply stop at the gas station as the tank gets closer to E. It’s a bit of an odd obsession among EV community.
Bjorn Nyland's observations are certainly in line with what a lot of people have reported here across multiple threads. the range / battery capacity drop happened earlier this year about a month or two ago and it affected all variants of the Model 3 and cars with a wide range of mileage on odometer and a wide range of build months. Given the number of people reporting this and the fact that it happened around the same time period to such wide range of cars, it does not appear to be regular battery degradation or battery calibration issue - there is definitely something else happening here and the only reasonable explanation that makes any sense is that Tesla did something to cause this with one of the software updates. Note that this has happened to a lot of people's cars before version 10 a released, more towards later versions of version 9. Given the number of reports and the variety of cars affected, it is a fact and we should not dismiss or ignore so easily as some argue.
The range drop is not all that significant for long range variants of Model 3 but it becomes a lot more noticeable and inconvenient on the SR, SR+, and mid-range variants. At the very least an official and coherent explanation from Tesla as to what happened and why exactly would be very appreciated. Otherwise, what we have is a lot of speculation and arguments - transparency is always a good policy for a company under so much constant scrutiny as Tesla.
@82bert, thank you. I will say again, I do not mean it as a knock on EV drivers. Just, as you say, an ODD OBSESSION.
we all know that vmulla. It is the "boy who cried wolf" effect.
It is the fudsters who are to blame as they post so much untrue stuff that people are skeptical of everything the read now. But they will be here shortly to try and claim they are the truth bringers are we are just "fanbois".
I think we all know the truth about that....
Thanks, @vmulla. That experience matched exactly what I had seen. The drop did not perfectly align with the installation of V10, but there was a definite, and somewhat abrupt, drop. Where reported range at 90% on my SR+ used to be around 211-212, then it went to around 202. And when I ran about 50% off the charge and did the math, the decline appear to be "real" at least in terms of the percentage charge remaining vs the whrs consumed.
Then -- just six hours ago -- I noticed that the charge at 90% had ticked up to 209, which would indicate a total range of 232. So ... danged if I know.what's going on. But at the moment most of those lost Whrs appear to have been found again. Again, without a software update or any reset of the system.
Thanks for posting. Once again underlines Tesla's biggest issue: its totally lousy communication with customers. It is honestly the one and only major gripe I have with Tesla but for the past almost 24 months (since putting in our order) it has been a consistent theme. Just friccken tell people what is going on please!!!
"Prepare to be called a FUDster, Bjørn."
lol, its like they read this forum.
They are legit questions from folks dealing with new-to-them technology. I bought a mid-range when the cost/range equation worked for me last fall after my Camry got totaled. I will repeat my experience here even though last time I did so another poster took the time to search the forum for all my other posts. He posted excerpts from them so that others could judge whether I was a troll. He concluded that maybe I was ok. LOL.
At any rate, when I first had the car I could charge to 90%, toggle the display, and have it show 236 miles of range.
Today when I do that it shows 213 miles of range. So, after 10 months and 27k miles I'm down some 10%. It's leveled out for now so hopefully that's it for "degradation" or "algorithm" issues or whatever.
So to your point, it is just an honest observation. No ulterior motive. I love the car more the longer I own it. Probably sold one to a guy in the post office parking lot yesterday and forgot to give him my referral code. But I do still wonder what's going on with the battery, if anything.
The acid test will be whether or not Tesla adjusts its EPA ratings. If they do, this is a "permanent" change in battery buffer. If they do not, it is just temporary fiddling with the range estimator.
AWDTesla | October 16, 2019
"Prepare to be called a FUDster, Bjørn."
hardly.... but nice try. People who posts facts and back up their claims are not called Fudsters. Bjorn always have facts and sourcing.
I was just noticing that my maximum range seems to have dropped. I thought maybe it was my imagination or I had somehow done something to cause it (not sure what that "something" could have been.)
When I read insideevs's article, it confirmed that this was none of the above. And I admit that I am a little bit peeved to have discovered it on my own and then read the explanation second hand from a fellow owner rather than directly from Tesla.
Tesla made a huge deal about the additional range that they had "gifted" us previously. So, if they have taken some of those gains back, for whatever reason, then why weren't they equally forthcoming about that? A few miles of range isn't a big deal, except that Tesla had made it a big deal when they wanted to play Santa Claus, so I think it's a fair thing to ask about now, too.
Currently getting 208 miles on 90% charge for my SR+. Used to be 216 miles when I got it new back in June 2019.
I was worried at first that I’m “losing” range until I the trip that we had last weekend. We left the house with 90% charge. Went to an event 72 miles from home. I had my range set to energy which shows the battery percentage instead of miles. I was driving as usual between 65 to 75 mph. After the event we went around town and when it was time to go home we had 41% left. I entered my home address in the nav to see if we can make it back home without charging. It said that we would have 5% charge left by the time we get home and advised us to drive under 65 mph to make it. It was around 72 miles going home from where we were.
I drove home between 60 to 65 mph, mostly using autopilot. I saw the estimate rose from 5% to 9% along the way. I sometimes floored it when I needed to pass a car. We got home with 9% charge left.
I did some quick math and if I was correct with mu calculation. If 32% battery charge gave me 72.5 miles driving under 65 mph. It would give me 217.5 miles at 96% charge. Full charge would then be 226.5 miles. So 13.5 miles difference from what the 240 rated miles.
I’m happy with the result. I probably could have gotten the 240 miles if our house is not on the hills and if I coasted @ 65 mph during the whole trip.
One thing that I noticed. From Westlake Village to Ontario basically using the 210 or 10 freeway, we only have a handful of Tesla Superchargers. Between Ontario to Glendale, there is none. Between Burbank to Westlake Village, there is none. San Fernando Valley does not have one. The 210 to 118 freeway don’t have one too. To think that LA and surrounding areas have the most Tesla owners in the US, if not the world. Hopefully, they are planning on installing Superchargers in those areas soon.
Winter is coming.
Supercharging in LA is quite a turn off due to the long lines waiting to charge.
I think the key thing with Bjorn is that he is pretty meticulous about the details behind his tests. A lot of people say things that they think they are seeing but when you ask further questions it turns out they are looking at data for one charge cycle over a weeks worth of time, time spent in park, sentry mode on etc, etc...which completely skews all the numbers.
@derotam And I am very grateful that Bjorn has taken the time to do this. But why should he have to? Doesn't Tesla also test the impact of their updates on their cars' functionality?
I cant wait for 20 threads per day to be created because peoples range is being reduced by cold weather.
Sheeeeeeyet. Bjorn translated from Norwegian means “Large Antlers.”
@Joshan, I was quoting the Article.
@AWDTesla you have my apologies for directing that at you.
Was getting 425km at 90 SOC right after V10. That's a drop from the 445km I usually get at 90% SOC.
The car got another update on Monday, now it is back at 445km when at 90% SOC.
@andy.connor.e Average temperature where I live has been in the high 70's. I am running the A/C less: could that be causing the drop in range? ;-)
I wasn't offended that you didn't read the article, really no need to apologize. :)
i dont even know what im ready anymore today. I took a day off sick yesterday and everything is so strange today. Back to bed when i get home!
I try not to copy/paste in here but this is clearly a situation where it needs to be said again.
I have been seeing and saying the same thing for a while now. When I first got my car 16 months ago, the rated range was based on 147 W/km (235 W/m). In March, when we got the "range increase" on LR RWDs, the rated range base consumption changed to 140 W/km (224 W/m). My rated range went up accordingly. Over this past weekend I rechecked both these numbers on a long road trip. 100% Charge gave 498 km (311 miles). Rated consumption was still 140 W/km (224 W/m). This means that I had 69.7 kWh of usable battery. EXACTLY the same as Bjorn.
To be honest, I much prefer the idea that this is Tesla rejigging the amount of accessible power available from the battery to the idea that the battery has lost 4.5% in 16 months.
Thank you vmulla for continuing to voice your concerns. That is what these forums are supposed to be here for. They are not meant to simply be a cheerleading forum.
@weluvm3, In the 14 months and 17k miles I have with my Model 3 LR RWD, I have never seen a decrease in rated miles....so no one knows how/why these discrepancies are happening and to which vehicles/configurations.
The good thing with Bjorns video is that he actually drove the car down in one continuous run which most people don't do before posting their "lost range" complaints. I don't have a problem with lost range complaints if people do what Bjorn did to actually fully show the issue.
@82bert "You’re exactly right pg3ibew. People that drive ICE pay little attention to their “range” or how it compares to the advertised range. They simply stop at the gas station as the tank gets closer to E. It’s a bit of an odd obsession among EV community."
Probably because chargers are not around "every corner" yet ... like gas stations that can be found almost anywhere.
(Well ... only exaggerating a little bit on the every corner inre gas stations.)
I hear ya, but I wake up everyday with a “full tank”, which I could never say with an ICE. Zero range anxiety, especially driving around town. Trips require more planning than an ICE, for sure.
I had this loss of range as well, overnight, after an update in June.
Sucks that Tesla isn't forthcoming about this issue.
@82bert "I hear ya, but I wake up everyday with a “full tank”, which I could never say with an ICE."
Understood, but I bet this was because you *knew* you could quickly find a place to fill up your ICE without "running out". :)
That would be the 2019.8.2 release that changed my LR AWD from 278 at 90% to 260 or less.
"I don't have a problem with lost range complaints if people do what Bjorn did to actually fully show the issue."@dertoam
But they were correct about the missing range while the FUDster fanbois attacked them for posting the facts.
I like that Bjorn is going to "brick" his Model 3 to see actual range.
When this has been done before, the actual range was a bit less than rated range.
You the man, @vmulla
I'm just glad I am not alone. I was starting to think I bought a $40,000 dud.
I'm glad there are honest, respectable people on here trying to look out for the community, and not a bunch of fudster trolls looking to gaslight any naysayers. I was just about to give up on this forum.
Here's hoping this gets sorted out soon. I have a long road trip planned for my 10 year anniversary this New Years and really would love to be able to take it in style and comfort.
Thanks for looking out.
I am completely puzzled as to what is going on but yesterday my car was extrapolating to 312 miles at 100% and today I am down to 305 miles. Both estimates are based on 80% charge level. This range estimate is a total mess at this point. I really hope we get some clarity from Tesla at some point but I am not holding my breath. My car is a LR RWD by the way with June 2018 build date. I was charging to 307 when new and then to 317 after the bump - I never had to full EPA numbers of 310 / 325.
@Fishy, no, just because someone makes a statement about their car that happens to look like the results of Bjorns or anyone else's test, doesn't mean that the statement is true in that persons case. If the individual making a statement does not have data to back up what they are saying it cannot be assumed to be the same thing.
Example: Car 1 and Car 2 shows 10% loss on Rated Range as displayed. Car 1 drives their car to 0 miles and confirms that they have lost 10% of driving miles. Car 2 says ME TOO, without drive testing. Car 2 may just have a BMS calibration issue which would adjust out during a long drive as the voltage of the pack deviates enough.
@derotam only issue is he has no use for facts, he lives in the alternative facts world.
I lost 6 miles in a recent update also, before this had only lost 3 miles after 20k odometer
Aren't the range estimates dynamic based on temperature, terrain and driving style and with cooler temps arriving we should all start to see reduced range due to heat demands.
And keep in mind this includes the battery not just the heat you are using.
"just because someone makes a statement about their car that happens to look like the results of Bjorns or anyone else's test, doesn't mean that the statement is true"@derotam
It's more there real world results match Bjorn's real world results, Tesla's "V10" upgrade changed the rated range in a lot of vehicles and Bjorn has documented it. My rated range was 306 then 315 and now back to 306 after Tesla forces an update to fix some other issues.
306 rated range is what StatsApp is showing now. 10k plus miles in five months and all fast DC charging and many with big discharges with 10-20 miles left when pulling into charger. That's pretty good battery degradation number, just a 4 mile, 1% loss BUT as Bjorn's testing shows, this is a Tesla formula more than a real world indication of battery UNLESS Tesla changed the battery degradation algorithm.
"Aren't the range estimates dynamic based on temperature, terrain and driving style."@newos6
That's "Estimated Range" that takes all that into account. "Rated Range" is a non-dynamic number. Whatever Tesla sees as the battery capacity times a set number, 4.13 miles in the case of a 75kWh battery getting 310 range.
PS To see "Estimated Range" you need to get one of the aftermarket apps.
I bought my SR+ in March 2019. I got 216 miles at 90% when I bought the car. Since then it dropped gradually to 214 -> 212 -> 211 -> 208 -> 205 (lowest since buying car). Did have some updates done in that time.
When I hit 205, the remedy I tried was bringing the range down to 5% and then charging overnight. It did take the range back up to 208 at 90%, but that was only temporary, as I dropped back down to 205
Incredibly frustrating that I have to plan out my day if i do anything other than go to work and back. Love my Model 3, but this range thing has me pretty pissed off. Took to service and they basically said "you can expect some range loss in first few months of ownership".
I did see today that new SR+'s will have 250 miles, but is charging $500 more for that. I wonder if current SR+ owners will get this bump.
I wonder if the bump up on the SR+ is due to an actual change in battery capacity or just another re-jigging of the rated consumption rate. My guess is the former. If that is the case, getting this "upgrade" is irrelevant.
"I wonder if the bump up on the SR+ is due to an actual change in battery capacity."@Iwantmy3
Could be neither. When Tesla tests the cars for the EPA numbers, they may get more miles of range than they advertise. Mfgs can show lower than test range but cannot show higher. Some mfgs use a lower than actual EPA test numbers to manage driver expectations.
Audi is known to have done this on the e-Tron and owners see a 240 mile range on the display vs. the rated 204.
So Tesla may have just used some "bank" range miles to increase the price $500. No physical changes, no software changes and it just happened to coincide with Tesla's software changes which generally reduced range for current owners per Bjorn's tests and software reduction of battery capacity by 3-5kWh.
@Fishy, If multiple people agree that YOU are the dumbest individual on the planet...does it make it true? If one person does a test and their data shows that you are the dumbest individual on the planet, and another person agrees, can we then assume that the second persons statement is just as credible?
Please forgive me for using you as the subject in my example(/s?) The point being, just because someone says that they are having "the exact same problem" as someone else, doesn't necessarily make it so, and therefore should not be used to show a mass pattern of an issue. This is an issue with many variables that a lot of people don't understand.