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Range: Tesla 373, Taycan 201. Half, for double.

Range: Tesla 373, Taycan 201. Half, for double.

EPA numbers announced today.

Surprise, surprise. This is like a Top Gear replay.

Taycan Turbo eeks out just 201 miles of range, for the bargain price of $200K (typical options).

Model S gets a whopping 373 miles for $79.9K (nicely equipped).

Unscientific ‘joy index’ -

Tesla - 373 / 80 = 4.7

Porsche - 201 / 200 = 1.0

That’s almost 5 to 1. Sheesh!

No joy Porsche!

What’s surprising is that Taycan has excellent cd of 0.22, and low frontal area. Yet it’s still way behind on range.

That means that Tesla’s advantage in motor efficiency, and battery cost/weight is even larger than previously thought.

I guess this is why Porsche trolls say ... ‘price is a feature’.

Sure, how else can you sell this?

NKYTA | December 11, 2019

Turbo!

;-)

Not advancing the Mission. :-(

jordanrichard | December 12, 2019

While I agree this is pathetic for a company with such "engineering prowess". We should at least be fair and list apples to apples data points.

Meaning if we are going to compare prices, then make the trim level the same. In other words, don't compare a "typical option" Taycan to a ("nicely equipped) MS The price you listed for the MS is the no options car, yet your $200K Taycan is with "typical options"

Since each person is different with what options they want/get we should simply state the starting price of a Taycan and the MS. Then one can compare what one gets in that non-optioned car.

The MS comes standard with AP, air suspension, AWD, free OTA updates, holds 5 people, has far more luggage space, far, far more range, etc. etc. etc.

What does the standard Taycan come with other than less range than a 2013 MS60...........

AERODYNE | December 12, 2019

Also consider the lack of SuC stations. You need a lot more range to do any travel. What is the ratio of EA or Porsche dealerships to Tesla? Maybe 100 times as many?

Bighorn | December 12, 2019

It’s the Turbo S that runs $200k properly equipped. There’s no way that car will break the 200 mile mark.

jordanrichard | December 12, 2019

The problem is, while it can easily be established as to how many EA charging sites there are, the same can't be said of how many Porsche dealers have 250kw chargers. By law, dealers don't have to sell the Taycan, much less go to the great expense of setting up 250kw DC fast chargers. So the dealer network shouldn't be counted as places to charge. In all fairness, nor should Tesla Destination chargers. Not all of them can be used by those not patronizing the business at which the HPWC are located.

Simply one has to look at Tesla's SC network which are ALL DC fast charging, to the EA network which is NOT all DC fast charging.

Mark K | December 12, 2019

Jordanrichard - yes, the Porsche pricing scheme is contrived to make a base price config that few will order, because it omits important capabilities.

It’s the classic bait and switch pricing ploy. Almost everyone will pay much more than the base of 150k / 180k.

Yet Tesla includes Raven dynamic air suspension in the 79.9K base model s. That’s an outstanding value.

And this is before we even consider state-of-the-art 8-camera, neural-net drive assist hardware.

Which you can’t get on Porsche at any price.

Or the vast supercharger network with free charging for Model S, vs. $1 a minute with sparse 3rd party chargers.

So it’s actually much worse than reviewed above.

The unscientific ‘joy index’ understates Tesla’s advantages.

The notion that a $200K EV in 2019 cannot match the range of a $67K Tesla from 6 years ago ... is surreal.

It’s a shocking reminder of how far behind Porsche is technologically.

Technology is supposed to be Porsche strength, not a weakness.

So they try to change the subject.

Perhaps this explains why they would so aggressively use trolls here.

It was a preemptive strike to obfuscate the inevitable unfavorable comparison.

Given their deficient specs, they felt they had to.

Some folks will pay more for just a brand.

But even those folks get angry when the luxury brand turns out be inferior to others.

Porsche can’t sustain that without destroying their brand equity.

When doing something puts you worse off than doing nothing, change what you’re doing.

Get honest, or perish Porsche.

jimglas | December 12, 2019

But its a Turbo!

And shorter range is an advantage according to Darth

Mark K | December 12, 2019

Wait’ ll we get the epa range for the non-turbo base version.

Smaller battery - 79.2kWh vs. 93.4kWh, or 85%.

Intentionally not announced yet.

Looks like it’ll be about 170 miles range for about $130K, equipped.

Not looking good for Porsche.

jimglas | December 12, 2019

but it will look so fast on the back of the flatbed truck

Mark K | December 12, 2019

And you also get the exclusive privilege of getting reamed at a Porsche dealer service.

Tropopause | December 12, 2019

EPA- the great equalizer.

Daisy the Road ... | December 12, 2019

I tried ABetterRoutePlanner for my S75D and the Taycan with the larger battery.
Route SF Bay area to Durango (upcoming destination)
The MS? 22:39
The Taycan result? 39:52hrs, arriving with -3% battery.
Also: "Could not find any workable plan - this is the best attempt."

The initial run had the Taycan beating the MS. Then I looked at the baked in settings. 260wh/mi, instead of the 488 wh/mi actual consumption. Wonder who put that miss-information in?

Daisy the Road ... | December 12, 2019

(cough) Darth? (cough)

Bighorn | December 12, 2019

Taycan shouldn't autofill with 260. It might be cached from a previous search. 83.7/201 is 416 Wh/m for the Turbo. It populates as 2.47 miles/kWh or 405Wh/m . 2.54 miles/kWh for the 4S or 394Wh/m

RedShift | December 12, 2019

260 Wh/mi when someone is pushing the car from behind.

Boonedocks | December 12, 2019

@ RedShift | December 12, 2019
260 Wh/mi when someone is pushing the car from behind.

That would be @DA. Pushing....Remember....he is the strongest guy at the SuperCharger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

inconel | December 12, 2019

Could one get 260 Wh/mile if one retrofits the Taycan body over a Model 3 powertrain? :-)

RedShift | December 12, 2019

@inconel

Just by changing the badge on the Model 3 to Porsche, you will lose 124 miles of range. Tesla engineers have put in that ‘feature’. You can’t get anything by them.

Silver2K | December 12, 2019

RedShift | December 12, 2019
260 Wh/mi when someone is pushing the car from behind.
‐----

Downhill

nukequazar | December 12, 2019

Amazing! One of the most idiotic fanboy posts yet!! Congrats!!!

First off, comparing a bottom-of-the-line Model S to a top-of-the-line Taycan with options: ignorant or just a Tesla fanboy, TSLA stockwhore lie?

"Almost everyone will pay much more than the base of 150k / 180k." Just wrong. Base price is $103k. If I were to order a Taycan today, my choice (even if I could afford more) would be a 4S with some options, total about $130k to $140k; less than a loaded Model S was just a few months ago and a better car in every way other than range, charging network, and cargo capacity.

"Joy index" for a car = mileage range/price: incomprehensibly idiotic, or I feel sorry for you that you have never experienced real driving joy.

"And this is before we even consider state-of-the-art 8-camera, neural-net drive assist hardware." You do realize that the AP functions available on a Taycan are almost the same as what we have now minus Summon and Nav on AP plus night vision which is not available to us at all.

You understand Porsche is building a Sports BEV not a utilitarian family sedan, right?

Do you guys enjoy looking like numbskulls or you just can't help it?

Mathew98 | December 12, 2019

When are either one of you numbskulls buying a toycan? Moronic posting of snippets. I feel sorry for you that you will never experience life.

Mark K | December 12, 2019

Nuke’s 135K Taycan will go about 160 miles with its 79.2 kWh pack.

These guys are aiming for where the puck has been.

They can’t even match what tesla did 6 years ago.

It’s 2020 already. Get with the future man.

One more thing ...

Porsche’s safety scores were lower than Model 3, across the board.

How do you tell a 200K customer his car is quite a bit more likely to kill him than a 35K tesla?

What kind of luxury is that?

RedShift | December 13, 2019

Plus the Model 3 rings circles around this porker. While going 325 miles.

jimglas | December 13, 2019

I truly hope that darth and nuke waste their money on a taycant, but I doubt they will have earned enough nickels by the time the underperforming car is available

Silver2K | December 13, 2019

Nuke tells us a fully loaded regular 100d was 140k to show a taken would be cheaper...

Talk about fanboy ..

Mark K | December 13, 2019

Silver2k - when their stuff is not competitive with current practice, they compare to where the puck has been.

TranzNDance | December 14, 2019

I'm almost feeling pity for the trolls. It's like they are trying so hard to do their jobs, and their handlers keep making it harder. If they're not paid trolls, then that's just pathetic to hang out in an enthusiast forum and do what they do.

jimglas | December 14, 2019

But it makes up for its poor range by charging slower:
https://electrek.co/2019/12/14/tesla-charges-faster-than-taycan-porsche-...

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

Oh my @jimglas, how many times will you post this stupid, disingenuous article? What is it, 4-5 times now?

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

@Silver2K, when I said "fully loaded," of course I meant top-of-the-line.

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

@Mark K, no, at $130k, it includes the upgraded battery pack.

Mark K | December 14, 2019

Which still has 170 miles less range than a 80K Model S.

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

@Mark K, 80k Model S is a utilitarian, quasi-luxury, family sedan. Taycan is a sports car. Calm down. It's ok.

RedShift | December 14, 2019

It’s a sports sedan. At 5100 lbs, it’s a GT at best.

People who are enthusiasts know their terms. Wannabes argue and race imaginary cars.

Bighorn | December 14, 2019

But mom said I’m a “big boy”!

jimglas | December 14, 2019

nukequazar | December 14, 2019
Oh my @jimglas, how many times will you post this stupid, disingenuous article? What is it, 4-5 times now?
-------------------------
As many times as you post your disinformation
https://electrek.co/2019/12/14/tesla-charges-faster-than-taycan-porsche-...

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

Zero disinformation here. Just personal opinion based all the information available.

Mark K | December 14, 2019

And Darth + Nuke are 100% opinion-free. Sure.

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

I have never claimed to be opinion free. Go back and read my posts. I always say things like, "based on what we see from reviews and videos." You guys say "science" when you have no science. There is no science on a cannonball that has not been done even once yet. Taycan can drive faster, and for longer, than any Tesla ever produced, and there is an energy cost for that so it will need to charge more often. We don't know how that will play out in long-distance driving until it's tested.

Daisy the Road ... | December 14, 2019

It can't driver faster and longer as it doesn't have the stored energy to do so. Recharging is slower too. I'm sure it is a nice ride, at least as far as it can get.

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

No, Daisy, Tesla can only drive at high speed for 2-3 minutes then it shuts down due to overheating. Taycan can maintain high speed until it runs a out of juice.

RedShift | December 14, 2019

I have driven my 2013 S60 at high speeds for 1.5 hours in Arizona on a road trip. The car didn’t shut down. Must be some problem then, with my car, I’ll take it in for service so they can make it shut down from now on.

Thanks @nuke.

jimglas | December 14, 2019

Nuke, that is total BS

jimglas | December 14, 2019

Have you seen the track videos posted by JAD?
He routinely beats all the GT3s and GT4s on the track (those are Porsche TRACK cars)
One cannot be more disingenious than your last post

jimglas | December 14, 2019

IIn his stock P3D BTW

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

I should have said Model S. I don’t know about 3P. Limp Mode is well documented. Cannonballers regularly drive >140 MPH. The recent record-breaker hit 190.

Darthamerica | December 14, 2019

I have the P90D with the 1500a fuse, it is in perfect condition. It will not sustain triple digit speeds for more than a few minutes. That's 100% repeatable, 100% confirmed by Tesla. No Telsa made today can keep up with any Taycan beyond the first 1/4 mile in a race. On a long range trip without charging, no Taycan can drive as far as a Tesla Model 3 or Model S/X with a 100kWh batter. Both Tesla and Porsche cars are very good at what they are designed to do.

nukequazar | December 14, 2019

^^^That’s the bottom line. Anything else is nonsense. We should just stop this insane banter.

jimglas | December 14, 2019

track racing in a tesla:
Here is the first hot lap passing a Porsche 944
https://youtu.be/GNRlYA1XhaY

This lap I pass a 911 Carrera S and chase down a GT4
https://youtu.be/-hHj-eFNEhA

jimglas | December 14, 2019

oh...this was BEFORE the 10% power increase

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