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Model 3 Performance Battery Degradation Shenanigans

Model 3 Performance Battery Degradation Shenanigans

Here's the scoop.

My battery now charges to about 265 at 90%, and at 90% the battery charges to 88%. Per the percentage, this is a battery degradation of 2%. Per the mileage, this is a battery drop of about 5% which would be pretty high for a car that only has about 8k miles.

Here's the twist:

I've noticed on the tesla website that you can now order a performance in 2 flavors, one with 322 miles of range and a lower max speed, and one with 299 miles of range with a high max speed.

When I ordered mine, it said 310 miles of range and max speed of 162.

Questions:

Since mine was the higher mph, does that mean that my EPA rated range was since modified to 299? Which would more accurately correspond to the estimated range that I'm seeing?

I called Tesla about this and (let me preface this that any talk with these guys about battery stats seems like they are being extremely shady) they said that my performance was going to be soon getting a software upgrade to 322 miles. (this was after the lady had to put me on hold to go ask someone, so who knows how accurate this information was).

By the way, I don't buy that the battery estimate is partly a function of driving, because mine has gone down quite a bit and my lifetime kwh is just under 230, which should correspond to a range over 310 with a fully functioning battery.

Anyone know anything?

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Oh boy. Another thread.

WW_spb | February 16, 2020

3) yes, more threads about same thing please

stingray.don | February 16, 2020

The battery meter range is just an estimate that will be influenced by external factors such as temperature. It is not an indicator of battery health, and it does not and cannot tell you battery degradation. Deep cycling the battery may help with calibration issues. If you want to measure battery degradation, you need to measure the total energy discharged and compare it to the capacity when the battery was new under the same conditions.

"let me preface this that any talk with these guys about battery stats seems like they are being extremely shady".

It is not appropriate to call someone shady when it is clear that you are not well-informed on the topic at hand.

stingray.don | February 16, 2020
Magic 8 Ball | February 16, 2020

Shady is not the correct word for being unable to answer. There is confusion about the numbers. Rest assure that if your battery has an issue they will most likely reach out to you or your car will report a problem. The range estimate is an estimate but it can also be an indicator of battery health. It is not a measurement of battery heath. The only thing you can hold Tesla or any EV manufacturer to is what they say in the warranty. Until your range estimate shows you are getting less than 70% of what your car was rated at when originally purchased there is not much you can do.

Bugging Tesla over range is probably one of the largest time wasters consumers are guilty of.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

Probably why they dont pick up the phone when you call, and service is scheduled through the app. They would need a thousand employees answering stupid question phone calls all day. I wouldnt want to have phone receptionists either.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

I bet things would be alot different if instead of advertising range, they advertised efficiency like gasoline cars. No gasoline car is advertised with range. They are marketed with mpg. EVs should be marketed with their Wh/mi. Battery size would be in the manual, like the vehicles gas tank size is.

rxlawdude | February 16, 2020

Shenanigans? TEA 90.

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Also not all Tesla support reps are all engineers...

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

They would not be support reps if they were engineers. They would be engineers.

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Tru

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Instead of white knighting tesla, why can't we just get an answer.

1. Why are there now 2 flavors of performance with different ranges? What is the difference?
2. Is my 310 range performance with 162 mph max now a 299 performance with 162 max?

No reason to get butt hurt folks. Just wanting more info. (and yes I felt like it was a shady convo. I am entitled to my opinion. If you were on the phone and overheard, you can have an opinion too.)

stingray.don | February 16, 2020

"The range estimate is an estimate but it can also be an indicator of battery health."
______________________

True, but only in extreme cases. If someone reported 150 miles at 100% with a LR battery, then clearly something is wrong. However, 5% like being reported by the OP is within the noise of the estimate. My battery meter range estimate varies up and down by more than 5%. It is meaningless unless we are talking about some extreme case.

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

And no, I looked and I have seen no discussion on this particular topic.

WW_spb | February 16, 2020

chase.chick, there is two different ranges for performance now bc if you don't get 20 inch wheels your efficiency is better.

Magic 8 Ball | February 16, 2020

@stingray.don Do we have to play a hair spitting game about "extreme"? Battery health is reflected in the range estimate. Degraded batteries show lower range at full charge.

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Tire pressure and wheel size is a big factor

stingray.don | February 16, 2020
chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Ok well that still doesn't answer the question for two reasons:

1. If you check or uncheck the box on the configurator, you still have 20" wheels, the only difference I can detect is . max speed.
2. My purposefully got the stealth performance because I don't want blown out wheels/tires. Even still, the 20" was rated 310 miles. Mine with aeros should be greater, no?

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Stingray, you obviously didn't read what my actual questions were. You just looked and saw "battery" and started bellyaching.

Magic 8 Ball | February 16, 2020

Two separate topics: Degradation vs EPA rating

The fact is Tesla can change the numbers displayed to use anytime via OTA. No one here has any better answers than Tesla is giving out. You may get much speculation but probably not consensus.

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Whats ur tire pressure at?

Sarah R | February 16, 2020

@Chase.chick About every 7th thread on this forum is about someone questioning the range numbers of their Tesla.

@andy.connor has got it exactly right. If Tesla didn't make specific claims as to range, but played "apples to apples" by quoting the battery capacity in kWh and EPA rated efficiency in wh/mi (ymmv) the whole argument would be over.

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

I keep it at 42 according to the car and 45 according to my pump, which climbs a bit after the tires warm up from driving.

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Sarah, you didn't read my question either. My topic has not been discussed. I looked.

Twochewy | February 16, 2020

My car (LR AWD, 19" wheels) always charged to 310 miles, then after one of the software updates charged to 304 which is consistent with the EPA for my configuration. I assumed Tesla updated the constants. Which they can do at any time. You can check your wheel configuration and confirm it's set at 20". EPA for an M3P with 20" wheels is 299 miles.

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Let me be a little more clear, I'm not seeking answers on my own degradation, I want to know if I now have a 299 range car with 162 mph performance, or a 322 car with 162 mph performance, or a 310 range car with 162 mph performance. We all on the same page now?

casun | February 16, 2020

nope, not on the same page. what kind of help did you expect to get after accusing people of being dishonest?

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Casun, fine, you can be butt hurt. I still want answers.

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Just tweet at Elon.

casun | February 16, 2020

trust me, i’m not “butt hurt” by your ignorance. good luck getting answers to your questions.

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Casun, thanks for you input.

Teslamazing, just tweeted, I'm sure his phone is coming out of his pocket from the notification as we speak and he's typing in the answer ;)

stingray.don | February 16, 2020

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Stingray, you obviously didn't read what my actual questions were. You just looked and saw "battery" and started bellyaching.
__________________

I addressed your concern on degradation accurately and quite thoughtfully. I then provided links to previous discussions where you can easily find more information since you stated that you couldn't find anything. As far as your other questions, you did not provide enough information in your original post. You can find the EPA ranges at the link below based on model year and configuration below.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/

teslamazing | February 16, 2020

Worth a shot.

stingray.don | February 16, 2020

chase.chick | February 16, 2020

Instead of white knighting tesla, why can't we just get an answer.

1. Why are there now 2 flavors of performance with different ranges? What is the difference?
2. Is my 310 range performance with 162 mph max now a 299 performance with 162 max?

_______________________________________

1. The difference is how the vehicle is configured specifically the wheels. The 20" wheels are less efficient that then 18" aero wheels.
2. You did not provide enough information to make that determination. Enter your vehicles model year and configuration at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/ and you can see the EPA rated range for your vehicle.

Twochewy | February 16, 2020

Also update your wheel configuration and click "confirm" to reboot.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"Since mine was the higher mph, does that mean that my EPA rated range was since modified to 299? Which would more accurately correspond to the estimated range that I'm seeing?"

It should have changed to 299 to match current. Of course, LR AWD's should have gone up to 322 since there was no change to the car and that didn't happen. And people who purchased the cars supposed rated at 322 never see the 322 mile range show up in Rated Range, either in the Rated Range miles next to battery icon on in Rated Range in Wh/mi along the "Rated" line in Energy/Consumption Graph.

For battery degradation, the best tools are StatsApp for Tesla and TeslaFI.com. StatsApp has a companion app called Battery Health which shows your battery degradation compared to similar Model 3's.

https://imgur.com/vQwhJlO

https://imgur.com/yI1pBb6

stingray.don | February 16, 2020

Magic 8 Ball | February 16, 2020

@stingray.don Do we have to play a hair spitting game about "extreme"? Battery health is reflected in the range estimate. Degraded batteries show lower range at full charge.
________________

My battery meter range estimate went up and down by 6% several times over the past week. That type of variation is normal and cannot be equated to battery degradation. Less than 10% variation on the battery meter range estimate is just in the noise of the estimate. I was actually agreeing with you that at an extreme, it would indicate a battery problem. However, 5% like being reported by the OP doesn't provide any meaningful information about the condition of the battery.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

Sorry chase, just because it felt shady doesnt mean that it is shady.

You're just another amongst the group of people who fundamentally misunderstand that the range number you are seeing in your car is not a representation of degradation. Its an estimated range based on your driving efficiency and environmental conditions.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"You're just another amongst the group of people who fundamentally misunderstand"...that andy.connner.e doesn't own a Tesla, has no experience with a Tesla and has no idea what people are talking about when describing their actual experiences with a Tesla. But he is quite a prolific poster on Tesla forums....go figure.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | February 16, 2020

Note to potential owners: range can not be expressed in Wh/mi, and battery capacity can not be expressed in mi.

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

whos andy.connner.e? Never seen that person on here!

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

Also take note, that people like FISHEV would rather engage in character assassination instead of being factually accurate. It does not take a Model 3 owner to read Teslas support page, nor to read the Model 3 manual. You can open the manual and Ctrl+F and type range, and find all the instances referencing the range in your car is estimated range. You have to own the car to read the manual i guess!

https://www.tesla.com/support/range

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_3_owners_manual_north_am...

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"Also take note, that people like FISHEV would rather engage in character assassination instead of being factually accurate."

Pointing out that you don't own or drive a Tesla yet advise other owners on things you know nothing about and have zero experience with all aspects of Tesla is just pointing out a fact. If you think that "assassinates" your character, you are probably right.

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

You were also insulting an actual Tesla owner which was simply rude behavior on top of being completely ignorant on the topic.

Forum is supposed to be for owners only, you demonstrate why that rule needs better enforcement.

TabascoGuy | February 16, 2020

Um, owners and enthusiasts Fish.

Magic 8 Ball | February 16, 2020

"Less than 10% variation on the battery meter range estimate is just in the noise of the estimate"

Can you cite a source other than your own independent observation?

FISHEV | February 16, 2020

"Um, owners and enthusiasts Fish."
.
"Posting to the Tesla Forums is now limited to verified Owners."

Opening up Tesla verified owners forums to fanbois is not a good idea as andy.e. and others demonstrate. Huge number of posts, insulting owners, zero experience or knowledge of Teslas.

lbowroom | February 16, 2020

More word games from the fish

andy.connor.e | February 16, 2020

lmfao. Notice how there is no attention drawn to the sources of information i provided? I guess again, knowing how the car works is limited to owning the vehicle, which apparently FISHEV owns a Model 3 but doesnt know that the manual indicates its an estimated range.

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