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Secretary of State

Secretary of State

In 2011, U.S. sanctions delayed Exxon's $500 billion oil deal with Russia to drill in Russia and the Arctic. This was the biggest oil deal in the history of the world. What will happen with Trump as president and Tillerson, the former CEO (2006-2016) of Exxon as Secretary of State?

lilbean | January 15, 2017

I'm not up to date on what's going on with this issue. Aren't the pills to terminate pregnancy always available?

rxlawdude | January 15, 2017

Nope, not of the GOP puts its grimy paws on the ACA and removes both hormonal contraception and the "morning after pill" from any program receiving federal payments. They've done more harm to women in those states where they attempt to legislate THEIR morality upon all. Damn the First Amendment.

rxlawdude | January 15, 2017

of->if

RedShift | January 15, 2017

"What happened to personal responsibility? "

No, that's just code speak for "it's your own fucking problem, bitch!"

We aren't yet Saudi Arabia, are we? I mean, we are discussing this subject? Pro choice vs pro life? In USA. In 2017?

What happens to rape victims? Abuse victims? It's your own problem!

rxlawdude | January 15, 2017

@Red, I bet JT can get Viagra on his insurance plan.

lilbean | January 15, 2017

Aside from rape victims, there are women who need to show more responsibility for their own bodies. Promiscuity is a problem. I have known women who use abortion as their primary birth control method. I have also met women who were rape victims that chose to keep their child and love them. Abortion is a very touchy subject. I really don't like arguing about it. I do like to present the other side that isn't always discussed. :-)

RedShift | January 15, 2017

And the other commenter is right. What about holding men responsible? Takes two to make it happen. No, we don't want to talk about that? Why? Doesn't your sky fairy tell you anything about that?

rxlawdude | January 15, 2017

@lil, I hear ya. The point is, it's a difficult decision enough to make for a woman without the Gubmint sticking its nose into her medical and life decisions.
No one should be compelled to have an abortion, just as no one should be compelled to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. Balance.

lilbean | January 15, 2017

Yep. The way I see it, women will do what they need to do. It's hard to stop them. If it is illegal, there will certainly be someone who will do it the back alley way.

RedShift | January 15, 2017

And how much money do we save by defunding Planned Parenthood?

In the grand scheme of things it's a drop in the bucket:

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-che...

To run around making so much noise about that? Heh doesn't take a genius to figure out what's the real motivation here!

RedShift | January 15, 2017

@lil

I do appreciate your point. Both parties are usually responsible. Though, if you know men, you know they are all pigs. :-) (that's what I tell my daughter as she hits her teen years, anyway!)

flight505 | January 15, 2017

Former Texas Governor Rick Perry and Texas legislators turned down about $10 billion per year in Medicaid payments due to their opposition to the Affordable Health Care Act (Obama Care) leaving about a million people uninsured that would have been insured and rejecting federal money that would have created hundreds of thousands of jobs. There is a minimum amount of money a person has to earn to qualify for the ACA.

lilbean | January 15, 2017

@RedShift, Smart Dad! As a woman, I know it's ultimately our responsibility. Woman are the ones who have to carry the child.

RedShift | January 15, 2017

@lil,

So I was thinking about that the other day. God made females to bear so much responsibility and pain. If you see animals, it's the same thing. That's why the females are so choosy about picking their mate. They know they will be spending a lot of energy creating a new life, protecting it, so they have to make it worthwhile.

Humans, of course, are not animals. Procreation doesn't have to mean creation. Well, in order to enable this paradigm change, we have to have some solutions. :-)

lilbean | January 15, 2017

@RedShift, I agree. I will say though, that women need to make better choices. So many women post pictures of themselves half naked on social media and want a nice guy who will value them. They need to value themselves first. I'm not judging. I've made my share of bad choices in life.

J.T. | January 15, 2017

Please try not to label me based on my arguments with SCCRENDO. I am fervently pro-choice.

Silver2K | January 15, 2017

J.T. | January 15, 2017
@Silver>>>>>Politicians have been running the US since 1776.
Substitute "rich white men" for "politicians". Now, what do you think about politicians?
--------------------------
damn honkies!

Silver2K | January 15, 2017

J.T. | January 15, 2017
Please try not to label me based on my arguments with SCCRENDO. I am fervently pro-choice.
-------------------------------------
it's true he sells many types of sandwiches and bagels. I'm also sure he has a good selection of beverages.

SCCRENDO | January 15, 2017

@rxlawdude. You got the discussion correct. Thanks. There is pretty much a war on women choosing to have abortions at the state level. The wise men of Ohio wanted to ban abortion after you hear a heartbeat. That can be about 6 weeks. Generous Kasich changed it to 20 weeks. What a guy!!! LOL. When these backward red states close down clinics for whatever dumb reason they can think of women have to travel hundreds of miles for an abortion. Yes California will always be a safe haven and perhaps good for the economy but this is unreasonable. To those who don't comprehend much like @lilbean this is not about forcing women to have abortions but allowing them the right to chose. This is a decision between the doctor and the patient and not idiot legislators nor little bean who hung at fertility clinics forming uneducated opinions.
@JT. You are being a smartass. Why reserve special arguments for me? As I have explained above a women's right to chose is threatened at the state level and as @rxlawdude explained a few retirements of liberal justices and justices from the 3rd Reich will get appointed.

lilbean | January 15, 2017

And thank you for your tolerance of opinions that don't align with yours.

lilbean | January 15, 2017

BTW, I never said I was anti choice. I just presented a side that most people don't consider. But you've labeled me. So be it.

J.T. | January 16, 2017

@SCCRENDO >>>>@JT. You are being a smartass.

Better than a dumbass, I always say, which is what you are with glib comments like this>>>> justices from the 3rd Reich will get appointed.

Comparing anything or anyone to Nazi Germany diminishes the enormity of the holocaust. There are many other examples of unsavory dictatorships in History. Use one of those if you must.

SamO | January 16, 2017

Godwin's Law. Natch.

Remnant | January 16, 2017

@flight505 (January 15, 2017)

<< Experience is a great teacher. Trump has no experience in politics. He also has a huge conflict of interest with his businesses. Why would he nominate Tilllerson? Elaine Chao for Transportation >>

Do you want a moocher, a mendicant for POTUS? Are you confessing that if you were rich you would become a criminal? Living aside the fact that the POTUS is exempt from nepotism and conflict-of interest laws, why would you preferentially place a poor person in a position of government service?

Civil rights? Equal treatment? Why not have a confirmed idiot as POTUS? We've already done that a few times in the past. We could even promote you as POTUS, so you have the opportunity to foist a few crazy laws down our throats.

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@Remnant. It is not because he is rich that he could be a criminal. He has self admitted to criminal acts such as grabbing women in the wrong place. Other stuff that gives cause for concern his behavior towards Putin. It raises cause for concern. He could clear it up by showing his finances particularly tax returns. His business interests set him up for bribery. There have methods suggested for him to be more transparent but he has just declined.

"Why not have a confirmed idiot as POTUS"? Isn't that going to happen in 4 days?

J.T. | January 16, 2017

>>>>His business interests set him up for bribery.

Not nearly as much as needing money would.

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@JT. Not true. There is a difference between need and want. And want can sometimes be far greater than need.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

@JT

"Not nearly as much as needing money would"

You really believe so? If that were the case people would stop working after reaching their threshold. I mean why bother, right? (Don't tell me all are so driven that money doesn't matter to them, there a few of those, but I can count them in one hand)

hcwhy | January 16, 2017

@RedShift

Your comment "If you know men. you know they are all pigs" is out of line. First off, a lot of men are pretty terrific people and to paint them all with such a negative brush...though trendy in some groups....is wrong and just plain offensive. Racism is racism: sexism is sexism. Substitute women, blacks, gays or any other group where you have put men, and you can imagine the stir it would cause. People could lose jobs, and get shunned for doing it.

J.T. | January 16, 2017

@SCCRENDO @RedShift It's much harder to bribe a billionaire than a county clerk with a gambling problem.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

rxlawdude | January 16, 2017

@JT, but it's a helluva lot easier for the Orange-a-tan to produce government decisions that affect TrumpCo bottom line. That's corruption with a capital C.

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@JT. The man of hypotheticals and deflection. Last I heard the president elect was not a county clerk with a gambling problem although some of us may have preferred the county clerk. The billionaire could possibly already have been bribed, subject to blackmail and in addition utilize the White House to further all aspects of family business including clothing lines. Guess this could be judged better when we see tax returns etc. For the moment one can only draw one's own conclusions. I guess we have a thing against this guy and think he is incompetent and corrupt. Others are obviously more generous and give him the benefit of the doubt even when there are signs that something may not be quite right.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

JT,

There are plenty of business folks who get bribed.

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0512/the-biggest-bribe-cases-...

That post was too simplistic coming from you. We aren't trying to compare a clerk here. For one, a clerk has far fewer chances to get into foreign dealings with potentially security implications for the whole world. He may take bribes everyday, but that has no relevance here.

J.T. | January 16, 2017

@RedShift Did you read the article you linked to? There are accounts of bribes to politicians, nothing new, accounts of bribes to regulatory agencies, nothing new, but not one account of a billionaire being bribed. Nice try.

Yes, SCCRENDO, he could have been bribed, he could have blackmailed, he could have been brainwashed like a Manchurian candidate, but there's no proof of any of that, except for the same stuff said about the Clintons for 30 years.

Oh, and you're never seeing tax returns. Trump won. All this bad stuff, all this scandal, all this incompetence and he won. And why? Because the Democrats are a dishonest, underhanded, back stabbing party who couldn't pick a decent nominee.

Should have went with Bernie. An honest, passionate, straight talking decent person.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

@JT,

That was to highlight how businesses bribe and get bribes. Sorry, but you are missing the smaller and the bigger point.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

And, just to prove the point. You will love this one as it has some links to Hillary too ;-)

https://www.google.com/search?q=billionaires+who+took+bribes&ie=UTF-8&oe...

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@JT. Again you are showing blind trust (excuse the pun) by dismissing the need to see his tax returns. We need to see them to know that where he is being bribed or could be bribed etc. And again the nice deflection. We are talking Trump. Who the democrats picked for nominee is. irrelevant at this point. Is he a Manchurian candidate?. You are correct. No proof. But many of us think he could be. Don't you think the American deserve some reassurance that he isn't?

J.T. | January 16, 2017

@SCCRENDO I didn't say we didn't need to see them, I said you're never going to see them. He has no reason to show them.

Why do you continually demean his ethics, his honor, his sense of fair play and then get surprised when he's unethical, dishonorable and unfair?

As for reassurance that he isn't as bad you think he is, you're not prepared to believe it anyway. Time will tell.

@RedShift How can I miss the point when I was the one who made the point. It's hard to bribe a billionaire. That's my point.

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@JT. From what I have seen and heard of him I am not demeaning his ethics, his honor, his sense of fair play. He has done his own demeaning. Nor am I surprised at his behavior. If I was running the show I would not have voted him in for president and would try impeach him when he crosses the line which I believe he will do.But I am not in charge. I think we need to keep reminding his die-hard supporters (deniers) that all is not well in Trump land.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

@JT

I gave you link that lists a few that were bribed. If you believe they can't be bribed (or, that 'our' billionaires can't be bribed) all the more power to you.

ram1901 | January 16, 2017

in the year 1970 I began hosting a radio talk show on our local station called 'Voice of the People'
The 'good book' says "there is nothing new under the sun"

Here's how those two statements come together:
Abortion vs ProChoice, Poor vs Rich, Big Government vs Small Government, War for Oil, Climate Change (was cooling, then warming and now some say cooling again) and the list goes on. These were all topics discussed in some form over all the year's I hosted various radio talk shows. (In later years, as I moved up the corporate ladder, I left the talk show circuit for management positions, but, using another cliche - 'the more things change the more they stay the same' .. )

You'd think by now we would have found some common ground. President Elect (soon to be President) Trump is only the latest object of venomous conversation. By the way...while many politicians became cabinet secretaries, becoming a cabinet secretary does NOT make one a politician.

Love my 70D... now back to Car Talk on the Tesla Forum... oh wait.. does that happen here anymore???? :)

rozanne2 | January 16, 2017

Uh...are we on FB here? I thought this was a Tesla car forum.

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@roxanne2 and @ram1901. Didn't get the memo about your new forum moderator position. This is the general section and if you don't enjoy a topic that attracts many long time Tesla owners try skip it. Here would be the link you are looking for
https://www.facebook.com

J.T. | January 16, 2017

@RedShift The links you provided showed that billionaires bribe people not that they are bribed by people. There is a difference.

SCCRENDO | January 16, 2017

@JT. Come on. Get real. Stop getting defensive about Trump. The country screwed up and elected him for whatever reason. Let's hope the damage he causes is limited. But please stop trying to defend him. He is indefensible.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

@JT

The billionaire in the list I provided paid bribes to expand his mining interests in Africa. If you reverse that situation, you can see how it can work for Trump and say, Russia. It may not be money exchanging hands. It could be lofting of sanctions, etc.

There is no difference. Both would be bribery cases.

RedShift | January 16, 2017

Lofting = lifting

Remnant | January 17, 2017

@RedShift (January 15, 2017)

<< ... if you know men, you know they are all pigs. :-) (that's what I tell my daughter as she hits her teen years, anyway!) >>

Nice way of building up your daughter's confidence in a future relationship to a husband. Real genius!

In this connection though, I have a question of language, why do we call a right to abortion a "reproductive right"? Isn't it an "anti-reproductive right"?

compchat | January 17, 2017

"Can't we all just get a long ?"

All we can do now is give President Trump a chance to do his best. His best might not meet everyone's expectations but then again that would be the norm for this scenario.

Remnant | January 17, 2017

@compchat (January 17, 2017)

<< All we can do now is give President Trump a chance to do his best. His best might not meet everyone's expectations but then again that would be the norm for this scenario. >>

Well said ... ! !

Thank you.

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