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We've got more Sun than You've got Oil. Brown said.

We've got more Sun than You've got Oil. Brown said.

http://www.ecowatch.com/california-solar-power-2305961141.html

California meeting half its Energy Needs and is the 6th largest World Economic power and the biggest in the United States.

And the Sun transports it energy for FREE.

compchat | March 26, 2017

If I recall properly China is pumping out huge quantities of fossil fuel power plants and in the process creating terrible air pollution. The solar farm project is great, but doesn't negate their lack of pollution controls on automobiles, factories, refineries, electric plants and other sources of hydrocarbon waste. China has a long way to go to catch up to the United States.

johndoeeyed | March 26, 2017

@compchat
You do not recall properly.
http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/2017/01/16/china-coal-power-overcapacit...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-to-halt-construction-on...
PS:
That took all of 15 seconds googling "china coal power stations"

robert.s.bjekich | March 26, 2017

I also am a Republican and duplicate the lifestyle of conservation oriented living as Compchat. All the Tesla owners I know in northern California are republicans and live conservative efficient lifestyles. Talk with the staff at the Rocklin CA service center and you will get to know the Tesla buyer.
California is not the model state. We are heavily in debt, support wasteful projects such as the bullet train, and encourage illegal immigration so hopefully they will vote to the maintain the liberal majority. As Margaret Thatcher once said liberalism is great until you run out of other people's money. We are out of money and are looking to the federal government for bail outs. President Trump is now the enemy of California liberals who now need more money to support their failing policies. President Trump, please say no to the failing liberals in California.

RedShift | March 26, 2017

@compchat

"For those who are critical of Republicans as climate deniers I say:
1. I am a Republican
2. I voted for Donald Trump and contributed to his campaign. I like his ideas.
3. I've owned two model S Teslas and have a Model 3 on order.
4. I have solar panels which supply 90 percent of my electric needs on a cumulative basis.
5. I hate all the small power motors people use for blowing leafs, mowing lawns, trimming, etc. If they could plug in somewhere everything could run off of clean electric (and/or use battery powered tools for non comercial use). But try to get your gardner to use an electric mower and they will pretend not to understand English or laugh at you. I believe these gas motors must be banned by States, counties or cities. But how ?
6. Water conservation...everything is low flow in the house which makes for a frustrating experience in the shower. Toilets are all low gallon type.
7. Lawn. Most is synthetic which requires no water.
8. Pool. Use to have a cover but because of the shape I can't get anything but a bubble cover which I admit I don't use.

So, I'm a Republican manical Trump supporter who also tries to stay "green"."

Who is this? Why have you hacked our friend compchat's account?

Seriously though, respect, brother. Don't care if you're a Trumpster (no one is perfect) :-D

Good on you mate. Every one of the items you listed, are things I like to do, or have done. Cheers.

RedShift | March 26, 2017

I meant Items 3-10, obviously.

rxlawdude | March 26, 2017

@compchat, I thank you for your progressive environmental stance, notwithstanding a gap between our beliefs on other topics.

You, sir, are a conservaTIVE. Logical, reasonable. Unlike the short bus ones (who shall go unnamed) here.

lilbean | March 26, 2017

Redshift, What's 9 and 10? :-)

RedShift | March 26, 2017

@lil

My heavy cough medication. :-D

May be I will wake up and realize I've been dreaming all of this!

vp09 | March 26, 2017

Compchat We are here with you

Mike83 | March 27, 2017

Holy smoke California will need more batteries(more GigaFactories making PowerWalls and PowerPacs) to store all that Energy.

https://electrek.co/2017/03/27/california-solar-wind-renewable-electrici...

massimob30 | March 27, 2017

Well said compchat, being critical of climate change is not the same as ignoring a policy of wisdom. Implementing a green lifestyle should happen because it makes sense, not because of apocalyptic scare tactics that are woefully short of coming true.

China has also lied about their carbon emissions in the past, so I would be cautious of their claims.

SamO | March 27, 2017

@massimob30,

Please visit Miami while you still can.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article108811897.html

SamO | March 27, 2017

In Miami Beach, where tidal flooding has soared 400 percent since 2006, the city is in the midst of a sea rise protection plan expected to cost about $500 million. Considered a leader in resiliency efforts, four new pumps once again helped keep parts of the city dry.

“Areas that two years ago were completely immersed and would require a kayak to cross the street were extremely dry,” said Mayor Philip Levine. They included Indian Creek Drive, Alton Road, North Bay Road and parts of Sunset Harbor, he said.

massimob30 | March 27, 2017

SamO

I went last year, and it was fine. Please visit California before another 240 year long drought comes. It happened 1167 years ago, before gas guzzlers roamed the Earth.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/california-drought-past-dry-period...

SamO | March 27, 2017

It was "not fine". Please read above. Miami is spending $500M just to stay above water and Miami cannot be defended. That's just reality.

If you don't believe me, read the CONSERVATIVE Financial Times:

https://www.ft.com/content/de73b604-c12b-11e6-81c2-f57d90f6741a

SamO | March 27, 2017

"Climate change or not, the daily high-water marker at Virginia Key in Miami has been rising by an average of almost an inch a year for the past five years, nearly 10 times the rate of the global average. Greater Miami — with all those pricey condo buildings on Miami Beach — stands to lose $3.5tn in assets by 2070 if damage from rising tides cannot be mitigated."

massimob30 | March 27, 2017

You suggested I visit Miami, and I have. I am telling you my experience. Go back and reread what you posted, then reread my response.

SamO | March 27, 2017

Great. Now you can say goodbye knowing you've seen it.

SamO | March 27, 2017

But let's see how your original point about "apocalyptic scare tactics that are woefully short of coming true".

Apocalyptic things are coming true in Miami. Not a "scare tactic."

massimob30 | March 27, 2017

No they aren't. The polar bears are fine, there is still snow in Washington DC, and Al Gore can still have the highest energy consuming home in all of Tennessee.

Mike83 | March 27, 2017

So California is creating new jobs and wealth at the same time beating Climate Disruption whilst the Coal mining jobs get phased out mostly by the fracking guys in the Red states.
Fake news about Al Gore propagandized by the fossil fuel lazy bums is the epitome of hypocrisy. Follow the money to who really makes the decisions cutting their taxes 10 or 20% while raising yours. A sucker is borne every second it seems.

SamO | March 27, 2017

Yes, all the polar bears in Miami are fine. But the streets are still flooding. Additional pumping stations are being built.

Exxon is getting ready to write some really big checks.

Haggy | March 27, 2017

"Brown probably also has more marijuana than you have oil too"

Brown has been against legalization for years.

Californians don't favor illegal immigration. There's a difference between not wanting to disallow people from Muslim nations and wanting illegal immigration. There's a difference between wanting solutions for those who are here illegally who aren't committing crimes against people and wanting people to enter the country illegally. There are some liberals who believe in open borders and have a philosophical issue with disallowing people from certain nations while having no problem with anybody from England stepping off an airplane without so much as a visa, but I don't think it's typical for people in California to want anybody to come illegally.

RedShift | March 27, 2017

@massimob

"Please visit California before another 240 year long drought comes. It happened 1167 years ago, before gas guzzlers roamed the Earth."

Most likely due to a phenomenon called MWP. Those same scientists also say the temperature now is much higher and rate of rise, faster than the medieval times. Human population is also much bigger, living in much more riskier areas. Things to consider, if you want to be a balanced conservative.

massimob30 | March 27, 2017

Mike83 - Yes, California is creating menial jobs, you can now get a burger and fries on every corner. Al Gore had a yearly utility bill of $30k, that is not fake news. Unless you think ABC is fake news.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/GlobalWarming/story?id=2906888

RedShift - I don't know what caused the 240 year long drought (neither do you or anyone else), but it wasn't human activity. The truth is, we don't know all the mechanisms involved that control the climate. We think we know it all, but we don't. Rather than admit this fact, people will use words like "denier."

How about people stop making these predictions of lunacy, then scold those who point out such lunacy. Why not make the argument that we can have a cleaner environment while meeting our energy needs ?

finman100 | March 27, 2017

yeah, that's happening with donald running the show. (sarcasm). how's that going for ya?

RedShift | March 27, 2017

@massimob

Sure, I can agree to that. My point about MWP was not to speculate as for the cause. More about what temperatures were seen (estimated, of course) to what we are seeing now. Now is huge comparatively.

Now, you can say data is inaccurate, this, that. Sure, if we start to question those things, then we have to question every damn thing as though we aren't sure of anything anymore in this modern, scientific, progressive society. Some things, you have to trust the experts, coz the harm of ignoring them could do worse than not.

My 2 cents.

RedShift | March 27, 2017

And I have not called you 'denier'. I'd appreciate you insinuating we are 'know-it-alls'.

Mike83 | March 27, 2017

The fake arguments confusing Climate Disruption with Climate and cherry picked at that is transparent.
Google the Pineapple Express to gain some insight so as not to seem so ignorant.

johndoeeyed | March 27, 2017

@massimob
Your comment about Al Gore's power consumption is ridiculous. It does not matter how much he uses; rather it matters where it comes from. He buys 100% renewable power so he can use as much as he likes.
http://www.cbsnews DOT com/news/gore-defends-mansions-power-consumption/

Fast Girl | March 28, 2017

gee, I was hoping to find some informative information about sun and oil, but I wonder if I am just wasting my time on this forum trying to learn something. All I see is people attacking other people and generally being rude. Now re-evaluating whether this is right for me.

rxlawdude | March 28, 2017

@Fast Girl, welcome to the Tesla fora. You are in a section (General) where almost anything goes.

If the start of a thread is political, you can bet the rest of it will be, too. If the thread is NOT political, it may turn that way, but most of the time it follows the topic.

Fast Girl | March 29, 2017

yes rxlaw, I see now. I was hoping this section to be more about EV cars and Tesla, not general stuff outside that. thanks for hint.

massimob30 | March 30, 2017

RedShift - when you are basing decisions on terms like "can, could, might, and may", you run the risk of scrutiny if you are wrong. And in this case, claiming an entire US city being underwater by 2015 doesn't deserve scrutiny, it deserves being deported from the planet. Saying the planet will warm is one thing, predicting the apocalyptic ending of humanity is another.

Mike83 - Alarmists are making the claim, it is up to them to be accurate. It is hard to be taken seriously when the degree of inaccuracy is so large. It is downright laughable.

Johndoeeyed - The Al Gore mansion is 4 times larger and consumes 12 times the amount of electricity of a normal Nashville home. If you think this is perfectly normal for someone moaning about the planet's health, then I have a bridge to sell you. I am not hating on him for his desire for such extravagance, then again I am not saying the planet will explode into a ball of fire.

Mike83 | March 30, 2017

Spreading fake news without references that are proven is not only lying but boring as hell. Get a life.

RedShift | March 30, 2017

@massimob

"it deserves being deported from the planet. Saying the planet will warm is one thing, predicting the apocalyptic ending of humanity is another."

Great, I agree that we should apply some standards when it comes to predictions. Would you also agree that there have been equally fake-sanguine exaggerations from the other side? Would you also take an equally stern view of those?

Probably not. I will tell you why I'm pissed about this sort of 'let's hold them to the highest scrutiny' mindset. Those folks typically rail against AGW because the predictions failed to meet some of the outcomes. Not all, but some did. However, this ignores the following things:

1. Because underlying modeling is so difficult, and climate is so complex it needs supercomputers to simulate, it's easy to understand there will be some margin of error. This is completely lost on a person with this mindset
2. Ignoring the warnings means risking out future. So, it did not happen yesterday. That doesn't mean it won't happen in a 100 years. That's another thing this person would ignore.

Both of the above mean taking an extreme position, and I don't like that. Some balance is needed here.

Mike83 | April 10, 2017

4http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-california-legislature-approv...

This is why California is the 6th biggest world economy.

Fast Girl | April 14, 2017

@rxlawdue "As if @PinkFloydRoadie didn't use lots of exogenous substances during his time with the band.
(As if I believe he actually was a roadie for PF)"

Ha, that's a good one. I got a laugh. I'm pretty sure now (I wasn't at first) that I know the pink person, or at least I know his wife. Asian girls like us stick out in a mostly white community. If I am right, he was associated with an English band. Soooooooooo, maybe he and Brown have something in common ;-) This sure is an entertaining thread. So who was Brown referring to when he said we have more sun than you have oil? If in fact he said that and what did he mean when saying it?

MitchP85D | April 14, 2017

For the record, Pink Floyd is my all-time favorite rock band! The late, great Richard Wright has gone back home.

Back to planet earth:

The tide gage at San Diego, CA is showing a 2.14mm per year sea level rise. That is about 81/2 inches of sea level rise per century. You California folks running for the hills?

The tide gage at Key West, FL is showing a 2.37mm per year sea level rise. That is about 9.3 inches of sea level rise per century. Yeppers, those Florida folks are all gonna drown!

The point is, there is no climate emergency going on. When the renewables become cheaper than fossil fuels, that will be the day fossil fuels become obsolete. Please allow science, technology, and the free market make that determination. This fossil fuel age we are living in is nothing more than just a mere, insignificant blip on the geological time scale.

Mike83 | April 14, 2017

https://thinkprogress.org/climate-change-and-weather-e5be90138c36

This explains a lot about deniers and their motivation. Followers and not thinkers

Red Sage ca us | April 14, 2017

Wow. Now I remember why I don't come to this section of the forums anymore.

SamO | April 14, 2017

Google Florida king tide mitchie. Then buy Florida waterfront.

Fossil fuels are actually making LESS.

MitchP85D | April 14, 2017

Hey SamO, I don't buy waterfront property because of HURRICANES, not global warming! I live in northwest Houston because I want to put some distance between the Gulf coastline and my house.

Al1 | April 14, 2017

I don't buy waterfront property because of HURRICANES, not global warming!

And what could HURRICANES possibly have to do with global warming!

SamO | April 14, 2017

@Al1,

Perfect!

Dipstick's plan is just to not have anyone live near the ocean. We'll just relocate 80% of the global population that lives ocean adjacent.

Pretty sure that'll cost less than the switch over to solar panels and batteries

/sarcasm

Al1 | April 14, 2017

Please allow science, technology, and the free market make that determination.

I am with you on that. Let's allow science, technology, and the free market make that determination.

So when a lobbying group pays to selectively highlight or hold findings, or spread misinformation or outright lies should we take back seats and consider them the voice of free market, or should we speak up because free market is exactly the opposite from sitting back when you know the other group is lying?

MitchP85D | April 15, 2017

Hey Al1, according to Dr. Chris Landsea, NOTHING!

MitchP85D | April 15, 2017

Who is lying Al1?

MitchP85D | April 15, 2017

Dr. Landsea?

Mike83 | April 15, 2017

Mitch. You remind me of the Jim Jones followers who drink the fossil fuel Kool aid. The fossil fuel interests paid fake scientists for misinformation so they can sell their products unimpeded. Open your eyes.

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