Model 3 or BMW 3-series

Model 3 or BMW 3-series


Still consider buying a model 3 but haven't decided yet.
I read BMW will present an EV 3-series at the Paris Motor Show this year.

Model 3 is a great looking car, but the waiting time sucks. Likely the model 3 will come on EU market at the same time as BMW 3-series EV. So this might be a serious competition.
BMW makes also great looking cars. So it more or less comes down to price and option offered.

So far the Model 3 is poorly equipped. Only a sedan, no instrument cluster, no HUD, likely a tow bar where I have to lay on the floor to mount (not electric like BMW).
In Tesla's favor is their supercharging network which is awesome. Way faster than CCS etc.
Autopilot is great but seen on TeslaBjørns videos, there are still many situations it can't handle. Don't know it a BMW 3-series will have some sort of AP, but doesn't seem
to be something customers are requesting.

I'm afraid the interior of the model 3 is too controversial for many. No air vents in the dash, the center display not integrated into the dash, steering wheel with few controls, lack of voice commands,
Model 3 will be strong if they offer body panels in aluminum, which BMW will not. BMW's software sucks like ¤#"!¤. So dated and with no options. Takes 1-2 min to lock the doors from the smartphone. BMW apps are terrible. Every smartphone beats the iDrive software + apps by 10 years. Not that Model 3 software is perfect, but still way better. The navigation in Tesla is not good. TomTom and Garmin makes way better navigations with waypoints.
BMW has a terrible after sales support. No real software updates after you bought their cars. Which will make a 3-series EV dated in a few years if not already when leaving the shop. Holy moly. Who want's CD/DVD player or MP3 on a disc (BMW). Spotify and good playlists or internet radio. Tesla is here way better with their entertainment system.

The seats in model 3 will likely not be the same high standard as BMW. It's almost limitless what BMW offer in seat configurations.

I assume 3-series EV will meet model 3 range with a 60-70 KWh battery. Anything else would make no sense.

That is really a tough choice to make. So really looking forward to see the model 3 and 3-series EV.
I think Tesla could easily beat BMW, but I think they will stay with the controversial interior of the model 3. BMW has the worst software one can imagine and they will always lack years behind competitors. But BMW makes beautiful cars and interior is well though out with a lot of options. I do how ever think that Tesla will be cheaper that BMW.

What I tend to see on YouTube is a lack of objective review/preview when talking Tesla. It seems like people are willing to forgive and accept much as long as Tesla is the brand name. I would sometime prefer an open discussion about pro and con.
I'm not concerned about range or charging. There is electricity in all world, so charging is not a problem, it just takes time.

What I read is that Tesla's paint is not as strong as other manufactures. Read also about denting the hood with your hands due to missing support on the back side.
Another issue BMW and Tesla face is their high insurance costs due to the many BHP and because people just makes more accidents in fast cars. The Tesla S costs almost 2.000 USD/year which is not good. Yes I saw some time ago that Elon wanted to offer his own insurance company....but I assume this is only considering US customers.

It's fun to have a car which can go 0-60 Mph / 0-100 Kmh in less than 6 sec. But the cost for driving so is high. 19" or 20" wheels are not cheap and wont last long if one step hard on the pedal.
And do we need these fast cars? Yes it's fun, but it costs on tires, insurance etc. In most of the world the speed limits are so low that we don't need the insane acceleration. Maybe Tesla or BMW could offer a version which could NOT accelerate that fast and the customers could get the cheaper insurance and tires last longer.

I would like to see the model 3 with a normal metal roof. I mean, people may be impressed by the open roof with glass, but I wouldn't want to pay for replacing all that glass after a stone chip in the wind screen. Never heard any Youtubers talking about that :-)

When model 3 is coming, we can expect people has to pay for supercharging. But what is the actual price / Kwh? That could be interesting. Then it can be compared with home charging prices and also price for driving ICE cars. I know the price for CCS charging in my country and this is INSANE. Something like 1 USD/KWh in the City. Not sure that this is cheaper than ICE driving and when adding insurance to that calculation....hmmmm.

A lot of thoughts to go through. When considering going from ICE to EV and to Tesla :-)

noleaf4me | July 24, 2017

Model 3 - no question. Past vs. Future....

eeb9 | July 24, 2017

BMW has had a decade to get ready for this, and they are just now beginning t wake up. They *might* get it right out of the gate with a BEV 3-series, but I have doubts.

Tesla has a solid track record and is years ahead in support and charging infrastructure.

I don't agree with every design decision that Tesla has made - not by a long shot - but I expect the Model 3 to out perform most of the current BMW 3-Series, and a good bit of the 5-series as well.

The open questions for me are handling/suspension and brakes. I'm hoping that When EM said "Tesla doesn't make slow cars" he was talking about more than acceleration... :-)

I'm solidly on the side of the Tesla Model 3. I am open to being surprised though.

I'm also watching for the first manufacturer to build a compelling small BEV hatch at the same level as the Model 3. First company that does so wins. Though a Tesla Y with actual off-road capability would also work...

That's all off in the misty, unknown future though. For now, in this particular space, Tesla is the only game in town.

KP in NPT | July 24, 2017

You'll have plenty of time to compare them side by side when they are out. Kind of pointless to "compare" 2 cars that you know no details about.

dyefrog | July 24, 2017

Keller, you raise some legitimate concerns but maybe premature speculation on both parts as we don't know for certain whether the model 3 will not have voice activation (do we?) or that the navigation is going to suck on either. I also think BMW has cut their teeth on the I-series so they are not freshman.
The BMW has the potential to be a contender and I think their carbon fiber technology and commitment is forward thinking. I will always lean more in favor of Tesla though whenever it is compared to any of the major auto makers for one simple reason, PROFIT. Tesla's underlying motivation for every decision is based on how to accelerate the transition to sustainable transportation. Whereas all other manufacturers base every decision on how it affects the bottom line. Do you think Tesla would compromise the safety of their customers by willingly foregoing a $.50 ignition switch? BTW, I'm well aware that profit is necessary to stay in business and all companies require a positive cash flow of which Tesla is not immune, it's just a necessary evil to Tesla vs a mantra.

eeb9 | July 24, 2017

On Navigation, I compare all of them to Waze and so far none of them makes the cut. I'm hoping to be able to mirror Waze on-screen, otherwise I'll have to mount my phone on the dash again...

minervo.florida | July 24, 2017

After owning 2 model S's for my wife and me, there is no way we will EVER go back to ICE cars, they really are old school cars. So much maintenance and so many moving parts.

The response of electric motors is priceless, the low center of gravity handles so much better. Quiet, no shifting, full everyday when we leave the house, updates and improvements all the time.

It is like going from a smart phone back to a rotary or flip phone.

andy.connor.e | July 24, 2017

The question i'm receiving, is do you want Model 3 or BMW 3-series.

This can be taken different ways in which i will answer both:

-Do i want Model 3 EV, or BMW 3-Series (ICE)?
The answer is simple. I would go with a Model 3, because if i was interested in buying another gasoline car, i certainly wouldnt buy something so expensive like a BMW. It just doesnt offer me anything significantly more than say a Camry. Besides, the intent is to go electric. Gasoline cars are not a competition to EVs.

-Do i want Model 3 EV, or BMW 3-Series (EV)?
The answer is still obvious. I would go with Model 3, ONLY because Tesla is much more invested in bringing EVs to the market. Every other automaker out there is completely invested in the gasoline product line. The existing global infrastructure is based around gasoline powered vehicles. They are not going to invest as aggressively as Tesla, not only because they're worried about their profits, but because thats what people are buying already. Other automakers are building EVs for a competitive aspect. Some, but not all, have the intent to switch completely to EV, but others are making EVs just so 'say that we did it', if you will.

KP in NPT | July 24, 2017

I think he's talking about the not yet released BEV version of the 3 series.

andy.connor.e | July 24, 2017

I look at it like "What has this company done to present this technology"?

Tesla has constructed batteries that never existed before. Constructed the largest building on the planet to build those batteries, effectively doubled the global Lithium battery production under 1 roof. They're making everything themselves, whereas other companies are buying from other companies. Yeah, BMW, VW, Ford, Nissan, they're all building electric cars, but where are the parts coming from? Other companies.

Tesla built theirs from the ground up. Not saying that makes it particularly better, but you can see how much more invested they are in the technology, that every aspect of the car was made by them. What does that say about what the company will look like in 10 years?

PhillyGal | July 24, 2017

@KP +1

You can't really decide between a car that will be real in 5 days and one that *might* be real in a year or two.
If you can wait though, test drive both and see which one you like better. Simple as that.

np57 | July 24, 2017

I echo what some of the posters have said.

Of course BMW is a premium brand and there is much to be said about their ICE-cars.

But the real hero is Tesla. They had the courage to buck an entire industry (still taking a lot of flak from the naysayers and those betting short). No, three industries (auto, oil AND the auto-dealers), to develop and promote a technology that helps the environment and gives all of us a car that is a generation ahead (think OTA updates, autopilot, super-charging infrastructure, solar power, going underground to neutralize traffic congestion....... the list goes on and I just realized I didnt even mention the acceleration). The other car makers have been forced to change course (some havent even woken up yet) now that the 3 is almost out on the roads en masse.

You HAVE to give Tesla more than a fair chance when you make your choice, maybe also some breaks (each of us has to decide where to draw the line) even if you think they might have missed on some features! This IS about supporting a truly noble cause.

In the end it is an individual choice.

3dwin | July 24, 2017

Bmw is behind. Everything will be more expensive for no reason. Only competition to Tesla might be Volvo who has truly committed all their new vehicles will be electric in a couple years.

Shock | July 24, 2017

The main problem the OP is making is that he's comparing a car that has no specified options yet (tesla) to one that doesn't even yet exist (BMW). It's mostly conjecture.

giskard | July 24, 2017

I, too, will be watching BMW's announcements in Frankfurt this September. Not only for details on the BEV 3 series but the i3s, which will likely be on sale much sooner. I would not be surprised if the 3 series was a better handling car than the Model 3 and will probably have a nicer interior, albeit at a higher cost. I think they are better positioned than most traditional automakers to compete with Tesla given their investments in the i series program.

They are also seeing significant sales declines, which is giving them a lot of incentive to change. From what I've heard (on public forums like this, so take with a grain of salt), they originally planned to add an i5 to the i series lineup and eventually electrify their bread-and-butter lineup once demand materialized. Well, Tesla proved the demand was there, so they've ditched the i5 and are going into full on electrification of their mainline fleet. They've even announced they're going to drop some versions of existing ICE cars to concentrate more R and D on electrification (including my favorite car in their lineup - the 2 series will no longer be available with a manual transmission with the next version).

All that being said, I would not consider actually buying an electric BMW unless they signed on with Tesla's Supercharger network (or magically stood up their own in short order). And we still don't have full details on either car, so no real decision is possible at this point.

stammit | July 24, 2017

BMW ruined the 3 series for me in 2012 when they loosened the steering. I'd imagine they made the right business decision, because a lot of people prefer Toyota/Lexus type steering, but I think it sucks. This is why we still have a 2011 335i & will not replace it with a newer model. If we have to throw in the towel on the steering feel, we might as well go all the way - and that is why we're getting the Model 3.

kzodz | July 24, 2017

The OP is comparing a fictional car that may or not be released to one that will be released shortly or be revealed as the greatest financial fraud of all time. But while the Tesla will (probably) be released shortly, it won't be available with most of the goodies we were hoping for, at least for another 9 months or so. It will also take longer to get to Europe, and since the OP hasn't ordered yet, it could be that the BMW will be available to purchase first!

I'd expect the BMW to sell at a large premium over the Model 3 however. They will not price it near the cost a base 3 series. It might fall somwhere between their fastest base 3 series and a M3. It will feel intimately familiar to the mass market as an upscale car, with a nicer conventional interior.

It will also go at least 250 miles on a charge (higher price and newer tech). So, what's not to love for people who don't get Tesla? Biggest downside is the lack of fast charging infrastructure, and potential timidity of BMW to disrupt their own business model.

It seems silly now to reserve a Tesla which such a hge wait in front of you, but if you have an extra $1,000 in hand it's no sillier than those of us who reserved sight unseen.

cessna182 | July 24, 2017

+ production of the electric bmw3 is rumored to be around 2020...just plunk down your thousand like the rest of us!

hsuru4u | July 24, 2017

i would get a used model s over a 3

andy.connor.e | July 24, 2017

If a used S and new 3 cost the same, new is better. Most recent hardware, most likely to be relevant in the future.

eeb9 | July 24, 2017

And the S is still too large... I'm hoping that Teslas will go counter to the rest of the market and *shrink* - or at least have smaller models emerge - over time

carlgo2 | July 24, 2017

kzodz makes good points. BMW can make zillions of any kind of car tomorrow. They offer how many SUVs right now? If they make an EV, it will obviously be fast, have good range and be a quality BMW vehicle.

Can they source the batteries and what about charging? Will the German car cartel partner up and build Gigafactories and install a bigger, better and faster charging network? If they do, they will be hard to beat.

eeb9 | July 24, 2017

If/when Germany gets off their collective behinds, they have the ability to do some great things with BEV tech.

From entry-level to top-tier supercars, they have the *ability* to deliver. What they have lacked so far is the vision and desire to do so.

Tesla caught them utterly flat-footed with the announcement of the Model 3. Assuming that it performs as advertised and that they can ramp up production quickly, there's a long list of competitors who are going to feel rapid, deep, lingering pain...

Until the Model 3, BEV were either (very) expensive toys for the well-off, or oddball eye-crossers with ranges that made them all but useless for large portions of the population.

In that environment, none of the established players was going to take the substantial financial risks to undercut their existing lines. When 3/31 demonstrated the deep well of pent-up demand, it caught *everyone* by surprise - including Tesla...

Everyone else has been scrambling ever since.

Can they catch up? Of course they can - but it will be difficult, expensive and time consuming. Tesla pretty much owns the entry-luxe and lux markets for at least the next 2-5 years

ReD eXiLe ms us | July 24, 2017

My eyes went out of focus upon reading, "BMW makes also great looking cars." I tried, but couldn't really bring myself to read much further, because I went dizzy with incredulity. I seem to remember that BMW had a very nice looking fully electric car called the 'Active E' some years ago. But then they decided to bring the i3 to market instead, which looked like the bastard child of a Pontiac AZTEK and a Honda ELEMENT (after making sure they crushed & shredded all of the Active E)...

OK, my eyes came back into focus, so I read a little bit more...

A base BMW 320i is rather poorly equipped compared to just about anything more advanced than a $10,000 less expensive Toyota Camry LE. Just about everything you might want on a car is optional and overpriced for the 3-Series. That's why in the U.S. it is rare to see one presented in base trim. But somehow it is still considered the benchmark of an entire market segment for some reason.

Why would you have to lie on the ground to attach a tow hitch? Do you not have knees?

BMW offers optional Recaro seats. Tesla offers optional Recaro seats. What's the problem again?

The BMW i8 doesn't match the fully electric range of the i3. In fact, neither does the BMW 330e. And none of those match the range of the Model S 40. Why are you so confident the mythical fully electric 3-Series will have a range that 'makes sense'.

This made me laugh, "It seems like people are willing to forgive and accept much as long as Tesla is the brand name."

It is almost a direct quote of me, for the past twenty-five-plus years saying, "It seems like people are willing to forgive and accept much as long as BMW is the brand name."

Currently, Tesla is not allowed to offer insurance of any type for their cars -- in the U.S. Here, there are laws in place that prevent manufacturers from 'infringing' upon the business of insurance companies, who say it would be a 'conflict of interest' somehow. What Elon Musk suggested was that Tesla might offer insurance in situations where insurance companies charged too much, or refused to cover fully autonomous cars altogether. Tesla already works with insurance partners in China.

Acceleration is not a problem. It is 'rapid deceleration trauma' that causes injuries and damage. Tires become worn from burnouts and braking, not from acceleration in modern vehicles with traction control. No matter the maximum acceleration possible in a Tesla, it is still possible to drive them more slowly. You have all the control you need in your right foot. If you want to accelerate from 0-to-60 MPH or 0-to-100 kph in thirty-eight seconds instead, you can. No need to gimp the car at all.

I live in a semi-tropical area that sees multiple thunderstorms and tornadoes every time there is a major tropical storm or hurricane off the coast of Florida. Even here it is rare to see sleet or hail during such situations. The worst threat to windshields is from rocks thrown up from behind large truck tires on gravel roads, or wood chips from the back of uncovered logging trucks. The benefit of a glass roof/windshield is far better than any potential issue of cracking or breakage.

Tesla has been very clear about the pricing for their Supercharger network. The goal is that the overall cost to drivers would be less expensive than using gasoline. If it costs that much to use electricity at your home, you should look into getting solar panels with battery backup immediately.

carlgo2 | July 24, 2017

eeb9 in retrospect it might have been better for Tesla to have built something the size and quality of the BMW 5 Series in both sedan and SUV form, the SUV being more conventional than the X. Probably, though, they had to maximize the size in order to justify the highest sales price. All the X's I "build" end up north of $170,000!

eeb9 | July 24, 2017

@carlgo2 - I tend to agree, though I can sort of see Tesla's reasoning. They needed to fund development of the 3, and so they went with the highest-margin segments: Luxury Sedans and Premium SUVs.

That generated the profits they needed to build the 3.

the X in particular was aimed dead-center at the Porsche/Jag "SUV-ish" market, and it's doing very very well in that space.

So while I dearly wish they'd taken a different approach - I've seen enough of that particular breed of SUV to last me two or three lifetimes - I can (sort of) understand their reasoning.

even while I wonder whether any of them have *ever* got mud on their shoes, any time in their adult lives... :-)

So... all you S and X owners.. Thank You. Without you, there would be no Model 3 interior for me to complain about, and my screed against the American SUV would still be falling on mostly deaf ears.

My curmudgeonly soul is grateful for your many sacrifices.

MarlonBrown | July 24, 2017

Thanks for the intelligent and productive post.
I would point out that:

- Adding an aluminum body to high middle class car like this makes non sense. The aluminium body is way more expensive to repair.

- BMW maintenance is a true rip off. They will likely continue that trend.

- BMW interior is known to be superior to all Tesla offerings so far. In my opinions that would be only reason to get the BMW.

- on the other hand, BMW exterior is the same old. It seems the Model 3 will be more original and sports looking.

carlk | July 24, 2017

You still have plenty of time to make your decision. No one has an idea how the BMW EV will be like and how much it will sell for. To be honest I think there is a zero chance it will be a better car and better value than the Model 3. BMW won't be making the car better than the Model 3, which is a better car and better value than the BMW 3 series, unless it wants to push itself out of the auto business.

Ehninger1212 | July 24, 2017

I would not even consider a BMW. Of the ones I have drivin and worked on, never lived up to the hype.

95dawg | July 24, 2017

I've never owned a BMW, but everyone I know that owns or has owned a BMW complains about service costs. Recently, a family member had to replace a HID bulb on a 2012 X5. Apparently it takes 1+ hr of labor to get to the back of the headlight housing and remove the bulb. Cost? Almost $500 including parts. Paying for $250 OEM BMW HID bulb, I could understand, but over one hour labor to swap a bulb? wtf

JAD | July 24, 2017

Why would you even consider a 3 series EV? The car is designed to be an ICE, with an EV stuck in as well as they could, but not taking any advantages of the EV advantage. I would assume no frunk, tiny back seat, small truck, 50% more expensive batteries, and a lot less safety in the design, all costing more than a ICE 3 series.

BMW should not shoehorn an EV system into the 3, they should just make the i3 a desirable car instead of a cartoon car. A 'normal' i3 might compete with Tesla, but so far BMW has refused to make a real EV, not to mention the whole charging thing.

The Model 3 may or may not have the best vents, but to me, the important features like range, changing, style, safety and AP put in clearly in a class by itself, even compared to the vapor cars other manufacturers are touting for ~2020.

JAD | July 24, 2017

small trunk, not truck....

ReD eXiLe ms us | July 24, 2017

JAD: Well, maybe the next generation of BMW 3-Series will not have an ICE larger than 600cc? Then they could maximize its design for electric drive while minimizing the effect of the ICE components... It might just be there as a noisemaker and heat generator, and not for actual driving at all.

Keller3 | July 25, 2017

Thanks to all. Some really good comments which is highly appreciated.

Regarding service cost on BMW, I assume you are right. We have 2 BMW's for daily driving now, but since I do all the maintenance my self, the costs have not been an issue. I know this is not a typical situation.

Yes BMW is so much yesterday and even the upcoming 3-series BMW EV can't be expected to very innovative. The 3-series is BMW's money maker. So they will vary much from the ICE version. BMW simply does not take any chances with their 3-series.

You are right, I should give Tesla a fair chance even though, the Model 3's interior seems to be a bit with few options. Tesla has some big advantages with their supercharging network which beats it all.
Seems like DCC, Chademo, CCS etc. are so slow in Europe. Have seeing the new install can only output 22 KW at it's best. So that could easy take 2-3 hours to charge a 60-70 KWh battery. Tesla rock with their really fast supercharging.

Personally I don't believe much in Volvo. I just don't like their design. They are owned by Geely which is that's not something I want to go in to. I will stay away from ½ Chinese cars. Its probably not very fact based and mostly just my mindset.

I agree that BMW is overpriced so I think Tesla has a great chance to take a good piece of the market shares.

BMW will not have their own supercharging network. They will rely on public financed charging networks which seems to be so slow that it will never beat Tesla's. It that sense Tesla is doing everything right :-)

One ask why would I even consider a BMW 3-series EV. The answer is. I'm in a financial good situation and can afford either one. I can also afford a well equipped EV. In the past most of my cars have been a piece of junk with no options. So now I don't go the lowest price, but for something that will bring a smile on my face. I think it's great that Tesla has an APP that can remotely control some basic functions of the start cooling/heating the car 5-10 min before I drive it. That's something I like.
It may seems like little things, but still I find it very useful.

There is one reason for never buying a used Model S. I live in a small town and due to some home owner work, I just need this tow bar for the trailer. It's not an option trying to put building materials into a model S....even worse taking the scraped building material and garden left over into the trunk. So good that Elon confirmed Model 3 will have a tow bar option. Just hope it will be electric....which I'm afraid it wont, seeing the model X tow bar.
Maybe Tesla will do it electric one day in future :-)

I don't consider BMW as the best quality car. The one Toyota we had before, required far less maintenance as the BMW. The BMW had severe rust problems and the Toyota had none. If I buy a Tesla I will be the same open about pro and cons. I don't expect a Model 3 to be without faults. And likely also some which will not be solved by Telsa. The same as with BMW. BMW don't give a ¤#"! about rattling timing chains on their diesel engines. That is the owners problem.

If a design engineer from Tesla should ever read some of this. It seems like the sun visor is tool small on the S and I guess it will be the same on 3. Those are little annoying things, were Tesla should listen to the feedback (not mine).
I really want to test drive a model 3 before making my final decision. I am a bit worried about so much sun roof, which will bring much light into the car. Then I will use sunglasses and the result is a very dim display due to reflections, sunglasses. I hope the display will still be visible in strong sunlight.

To me it doesn't matter if Tesla/BMW makes their own batteries or buy them from Panasonic or ..... Today so many parts come from manufactures one would never believe had business relations. I know Smart will get batteries from Tesla and Tesla uses parts from Mercedes like turn signal contacts. All fine with me.

I am very much into buying a Tesla model 3, but there are a few cons. which I might have to accept | July 25, 2017

Tesla will own BMW in a few years, so it doesn't make any difference.

MKM3 | July 25, 2017

"Seems like DCC, Chademo, CCS etc. are so slow in Europe. Have seeing the new install can only output 22 KW at it's best. So that could easy take 2-3 hours to charge a 60-70 KWh battery. Tesla rock with their really fast supercharging."

You mixed AC and DC charging. The AC Type 2 chargers - depending on which installation and cabling you have - are able to pump up to 43kW into an EV (currently only Renault's Zoe supports that AC speed).
Those 11, 22 or 43kW chargers are the types you can get installed at home with no problem (we have 400V 3 phased power connectors here).

DC chargers (with Combo 2 / CCS and CHAdeMO) are usually currently limited to 50-80kW per car as there's only ONE car on the European market which currently utilizes speeds higher than 50kW (Hyundai Ioniq will DC charge up to 100kW).

I plan to charge the Model 3 on DC CCS regularly, as there already are chargers where I do most of my shopping. With the smaller battery, actual charging times won't be that terribly slower than on an SC.
Until the Model 3 comes across the pond, CCS very likely will be about as fast as SC is today.

JeffreyR | July 25, 2017
Wilber | July 25, 2017

Keller: I have been following this post and agree with nearly all your points. However, there is thoroughly depressing news at Electrek this morning. It appears the 3 series EV to be 'unveiled' this fall wont be available until 2020 or later:

jordanrichard | July 25, 2017

Wilber +1. As soon as I read the OP's second sentence about this BMW being unveiled at the Paris car show, I knew it wasn't anything that will be available soon. Car companies rarely if ever unveil new cars that can be bought within the next year or so. They are always concepts that are just meant to say "hey, look what we can do, but won't. We just wanted to get your attention to look at our present offerings"

Anyone else notice that Audi/VW/ BMW and Mercedes's "Tesla killers" are all coming out in 2020........... queue recent news of possible ongoing since the 90's, collusion between VW, Daimler and BMW...... just saying

rennerfra | July 25, 2017

Main differences between Tesla Model 3 and BMW 3 EV for me:

- Tesla has an existing supercharger infrastructure
- M3 will have best CW value in class (appr. 0,21)
- M3 is available soon (not in 2-3 years)
- BMW 3 EV might not be a real EV (from scratch)
- BMW might get a 'standard' interior
- BMW has experience in large scale production
- BMW has service infra structure

Select, what you want / need...

AJPHL | July 25, 2017

M3. BMW would have to come up with something super special to tempt me away from Tesla. I haven't liked any of their 3-series designs since the E46.

carlk | July 25, 2017


"Anyone else notice that Audi/VW/ BMW and Mercedes's "Tesla killers" are all coming out in 2020........... queue recent news of possible ongoing since the 90's, collusion between VW, Daimler and BMW...... just saying"

I think they all have giving up fighting with Tesla now. Tesla is too advanced and too far ahead any fight with Tesla will just induce casualties (loss of traditional car market) they could ill afford to especially now. All they are thinking now is not to let their traditional rivals to get ahead of them. It like to say you don't have to try outrun the lion which you can't. You just need to outrun the next guy so you can survive.

achilles992000 | July 25, 2017

as a Model S owner, I have zero desire to get anything other than a Tesla. i've had a great experience so far.
The Model 3 is going to be amazing.

SimonR_AU | July 26, 2017

Don't forget over the air updates. How many cars get better with age?

eeb9 | July 26, 2017

That brings up a question for all the Model S/X owners out there - how well does OTA work when you can't park in range of youom w-if signal?

I assume these have a cell antenna and can use that?

KP in NPT | July 26, 2017

You don't have to be on wifi to get updates. The car has LTE.

JayInJapan | July 26, 2017

FYI, @MKM3, MS charges up to 120 kW.

MKM3 | July 26, 2017

I know, *up to*. So I take the average for a 20-80% charge, which I'd say around 80-90kW is a fair estimation.
We don't know how fast the - compared to the S and X - small battery will charge, but we already know that bigger batteries charge faster.
Maybe it'll be compensated for with the use of the 2170 cells, but we don't know yet.

JAD | July 26, 2017

@MKM3, if you are going to estimate real time charging at 80-9- KW for Tesla, you need to take the same approach for the other methods, as they all are up to's and ramp down as charge builds.

The best part about owning an electric car is 95% of the time you don't think about this stuff, daily you just drive and it charges every night - no thought, time or planning involved at all, unlike ICE where every week or more often you spend 10 minutes going to a gas station and planning your routine with gas stops part of the plan every week.

eeb9 | July 26, 2017

I have to think about charging exactly the same as I do for filling up with gas - only the locations are different.

In my case, I have chargers nearby, but I still have to plan for them. Ditto for longer trips - I need to plan for charging stops in a bit *more* detail than I do for gas stops.

Charging in your garage is ideal, and I think that's what you mean - but not nearly all of the Model 3 market has a garage or a charger at their residence (thinking in terms of apartments, condos and the like)

MKM3 | July 26, 2017

Sure, it's a physical limitation of batteries and exactly my point.
It's just unrealistic to estimate that no other company, other than Tesla, is able to build fast charging cars. The Ioniq already supports CCS charging up to 100kW already, it actually charges at around 80kW and falls of at 70% charge, but it's still fast enough.

On one hand, everyone praises supercharging (it *is* amazing!!), on the other hand it seems to be unnecessary, because everyone charges at home. Hmm...
I suppose that real world charging speeds across the board of manufacturers will even out to around 80-150kW for 80% charges.

The stops I'd use for charging are at places I'd have to leave the car behind anyway (get groceries), so it'd be even less of a hassle than visiting a SC or a gas station.