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Autopilot Refund/Credit for recent M3 purchases - being fair to customers

Autopilot Refund/Credit for recent M3 purchases - being fair to customers

About 2 months ago prior to moving forward with purchasing a Model 3 LR AWD, I posted the suggestion that Autopilot needed to be a standard feature in order to compete with other manufacturers offering similar capability on lower cost vehicles before I would purchase an M3. Well last week it finally happened. But I made my purchase a week earlier and paid the full $3,000. Elon, if you are reading this I hope you will take action to treat your customers fairly as you continue with the ongoing rounds of pricing changes. It seems to me that even with the recent price increase, the cost of an M3 LR AWD actually decreased by $1,500 given autopilot is finally standard. If you are unable to refund the $3,000 to new owners that took delivery within a couple weeks of the changes, at lease offer $1,500 in Supercharger credits if not an outright cash refund of $1,500!!!!

BTW, putting aside the poor customer relations handling, after 3 weeks of owning our M3, I find it to be an amazing vehicle overall and not disappointed with my decision. I will say that the fit and finish even now, is still a bit rough around the edges. Still seeing questionable body panel fit, and paint that seems to still have a lot of flaws, mostly appearing as if large dust particles must be constantly floating around in the painting booths. But the technology platform is awesome, and being a C7 Corvette, and VW GTI owner I find our M3 AWD as much fun to drive as either of our other rides. Well at least more fun than the GTI! I even passed on a Jaguar I-Pace in deciding to finally go electric.

Please be considerate to new customers when you make these seemingly spur of the moment pricing and configuration changes! I really want to feel good about making referrals to friends...

Regards
Joe

ReD eXiLe ms us | April 16, 2019

Hmmm... I get the impression that some here may need a reminder of what the word 'fair' means...

fair /fer/

adjective

1. in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate.

adverb

1. without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.

So, it seems that the word 'fair' does NOT mean, 'Make things better for Customers than previously agreed' or 'Make things to the benefit of my Customers while putting myself at a disadvantage' or 'As long as Customers bitch, moan, & complain it is necessary to do as they ask, even when they have previously agreed to terms'.

mrburke | April 16, 2019

CAN WE PLEASE STOP THESE "POOR PITIFUL ME" THREADS.

Someone is always going to get a better deal.

Magic 8 Ball | April 16, 2019

Participation trophies destroyed the world.

ADinM3 | April 16, 2019

@synon2000, FSD not on scene in October? I could have swore FSD was not taken off menu until December or maybe late November. Especially, as I think the big nav on autopilot / summon features didn't start rolling out widely until September and October and there was debate over the summer as to whether it would fall under the EAP package or FSD package.

crmedved | April 16, 2019

@kaushal_sinha Ask your delivery adviser about it before signing. I would imagine they'd try to get you to not return the car. Since you haven't taken delivery yet, it is not unreasonable.

max89 | April 16, 2019

@ADinM3 Interesting points. Any source for the $1k cost for the front motor?

To be fair, we also need two consider two factors here: (1) Elon says that he wants to raise FSD price in May by a lot, (2) EV credit may bounce back to $7,000 from $3,750.

Including AP in price and raising FSD price sound like a coherent plan rather than separate decisions. Right now, the three configurations sit nicely at 39.5k, 49.5k, and 59.5k, very regular and less confusing. So I think these (very tempting) numbers may stick for quite a while. Meanwhile, FSD will become a big differentiating factor. The question is why they have not raised FSD? Well, perhaps to avoid too much heat in media.

Max

Buzzkill | April 16, 2019

We got our M3 Mid Range RWD about 3 weeks ago. We opted out of getting AP. Interesting that AP is now included For free I'd like the option...options change...I get it. What I am disappointed in is the sales advisors giving misleading or false info. Our M3 has standard connectivity. Sales Advisor told us premium connectivity was an option after delivery for $100 per year. That simply wasn't true. I contacted support and was told that it was no longer available and then they pressed me who at Tesla told me premium connectivity is available. After providing that info, they told me to contact the Sales Advisor for a resolution. I place the call 10 minutes later, left a voicemail and still waiting for a call back 20 days later. As a new Tesla owner, what I am learning is there is a potential revenue stream for Tesla after a purchase is made. I am good with the idea of it. I don't have to purchase anything and if I feel it is worthwhile, and the cost is fair then there is no argument on my end. But DON"T mislead me and make good on what you tell someone that purchases your vehicle.

ST70 | April 16, 2019

bunch of tards here.....

ADinM3 | April 16, 2019

@max89, I think I read about the 2nd motor likely costing around 1k on this forum last summer when people were speculating about the margin increases on the AWD which was a $5k premium at that time. I'm sure it was just an educated guess, but seemed to generally be in the right ballpark when you look at the vehicle teardown.

max89 | April 16, 2019

@ADinM3 Interesting. Did not realize motor is so cheap compared to battery.

TexasBob | April 16, 2019

This stuff is idiotic and hopeless. People are totally fine that EVERY OTHER OEM changes prices all the time. They just do it through back-door incentives to dealers. You can get a chevy Bolt for $6500 off this month. But because the hide the incentives or stuff them into financing and keep the MSRP the same the average rube thinks "whoa I negotiated a great deal." Puhleeze. The reason the dealer is letting you "negotiate" a great deal is because GM has dropped the price through hidden incentives and kick-backs.

Please, Elon, just lie to us. We like it better that way.

ADinM3 | April 16, 2019

@TexasBob, lol. Sadly your right. If you Google studies on "fairness" you will find all kinds of stuff on this. Evidently, it appears to be an evolutionary trait in humans. Studies have shown people become unhappy or resentful with what would normally make them very happy if they perceive others are advantaged over them.

Probably critical for humans to function in a society, but sure can take the fun out of your Tesla purchase.

elecfan2 | April 16, 2019

The only thing I think was unfair is that at the original purchase we were told that Enhanced Autopilot and FSD would cost considerably more after purchase, so if we bought at the time of purchase we would save money. That wasn't the case, people were able to get it later for much cheaper. Tesla lied and basically told people "tough luck". Now you may say that we paid the early adopter fee, but no features to date have ever been released for FSD so those of us that bought FSD early on paid extra for nothing on a lie from Tesla. It's not like we have been enjoying FSD features for all this time, we paid up-front with the promise that it would cost more later and that wasn't the case.

Carl Thompson | April 17, 2019

It's not quite accurate to say that car manufacturers change their prices all the time.

Car _dealers_, which are separately owned companies for most makes of cars, can and do have different prices. If you see different prices at dealer A and dealer B it's not that Chevy or BMW has changed their prices. It's that one store is willing to sell the product at a lower price than a completely different store. It has nothing to do with the manufacturer. And if you can get a better deal at the same store (dealer) as your neighbor that really isn't up to the manufacturer either.

Buying from a dealer is buying from a 3rd party store. Price differences from one store to another probably aren't due to the manufacturer.

But the _manufacturer's_ pricing structure undoubtedly stays reasonably stable over time I suspect. (I've never worked for a car dealer so if someone else has please confirm / correct.)

I don't doubt that the manufacturers' pricing structure for dealers is _complicated_, but I'll bet it doesn't change anywhere near as often as Tesla changes its prices.

ADinM3 | April 17, 2019

@Carl, I see your logic but I think dealer prices are more connected to manufacturers than you think between kick-backs, volume discounts, dealer incentives, sales and marketing co-funding, manufacturer financing, salesforce incentives, time on lot incentives, etc. Even the dealer salesperson has no clue what the true dealer cost is.

walnotr | April 17, 2019

@Carl - when was the last time someone bought a car directly from a manufacturer other than from Tesla?

Straw man argument.

Tanner8181 | April 17, 2019

Is there anyone here who has already taken delivery of M3, but opted not to purchase Autopilot or FSD at time of purchase? I am wondering how much it is for those individuals to now purchase Autopilot??

burdogg | April 17, 2019

I love how people say Tesla lied. Ok, guess what - I still have to pay $7,000 AFTER purchase to get FSD! If I had bought at the time of purchase, it would have been $3,000... Please someone tell me how they lied about it being more if I didn't purchase at time of buying the car???

It is still true of anyone buying today! Sure they get Autopilot at $2,000 - but against their will, but FSD is still an additional $5,000 at time of purchase. If they DON'T buy at time of purchase - it will cost them $7,000. Please tell me how this is still not true?

For you who bought your car and didn't get FSD on it - is it still not more for you to purchase after the fact? So is it still not true what Tesla told you at time of purchase - buy now or it will be more later? It is STILL TRUE. How did they lie to you at time of YOUR purchase??

Good grief!

And we know as well come May 1st it is increasing more. So they have yet to lie to you about YOUR purchase at the TIME of your PURCHASE. Unless somehow for YOU to buy FSD now is cheaper for YOU then when you bought your car. Because that is the ONLY reference Tesla was making for you. Buy now, or for YOU, it will cost more.

Even then, someone buying a new car today - IF they buy at time of purchase, they pay $7,000 for FSD ($2,00 for AP that is included now - but bumped price up by $2,000 for it as stated in their release, and $5,000 for FSD). If they don't purchase at time of delivery - the statement still holds true that it will be more after delivery - and it is - $7,000 for FSD after delivery.

But some will continue to say they got lied to or deserve something because they chose to buy two months ago instead of waiting. Speaking of which - i refuse to buy a new tv - those prices are always all over the place and I will never be happy with my purchase because I will see it for cheaper later.

TexasBob | April 17, 2019

@Carl - The pricing to dealers is anything but stable. There a significant shifts in pricing season-to-season and month-to-month. Below are just two random examples. GM dropped the price on the Chevy Bolt after the tax credit decline (sound familiar?) by more $4,800 through various incentive programs. They dropped the price of the Silverado $14,000 (30% !).

They can do this by adjusting the dealer holdback, for example, which is the money the dealer gets after selling the car (effectively reducing the price of the car below "invoice" which is why invoice is no more meaningful than MSRP). They can adjust the inventory payments to the dealer. They can do direct cash back. Etc. Etc. Etc.

https://www.machaikchevy.com/VehicleSearchResults?offer=99151560&model=S...
https://www.lonestarchevrolet.com/VehicleSearchResults?offer=253973950&s...

Magic 8 Ball | April 17, 2019

Manufactures don't even charge the same price to dealer to dealer.
Volume dealers get better pricing from the manufacturer.

TexasBob | April 17, 2019

Tesla is learning the hard reality that people are irrational and that envy is an insanely powerful motivator. The OP is wound up because people who buy today are getting a 3% discount vs what he got. Really? 3%? Bolt buyer is getting a 12% discount. Silverado buyer is getting a 30% discount. (Of course no one really knows because pricing is not transparent like it is at Telsa.)

Tesla must be able to adjust prices as costs and features shift and to manage demand. That is easier to do without price transparency.

Carl Thompson | April 17, 2019

@walnotr:
"when was the last time someone bought a car directly from a manufacturer other than from Tesla?"

Exactly my point. So when people talk about how other manufacturers raise and lower their prices as much or more than Tesla it's not really true and they are comparing apples to oranges.

@burdogg

I wouldn't necessarily want to open the "does Tesla lie" discussion!

ReD eXiLe ms us | April 17, 2019

Carl Thompson remains an [ICEHOLE].

ADinM3 & TexasBob: Carl Thompson has historically been in full support of 'independent franchised dealerships' in times past. He often indicates his preference that Tesla used their... 'services'.

Though he has let slip that his personal buying habit has been to use fleet sales services instead of dealerships himself, and he has bragged about 'saving a lot of money' that way... He won't admit it, but I strongly suspect he works for a dealership or dealership organization.

Notice he makes no specific mention of the points you bring up, but just glosses over those points of how dealerships work behind the scenes. He never admits or acknowledges these known tactics of how they do business with traditional automobile manufacturers and always attempts to steer blame on Tesla instead for not being 'like everyone else'.

Carl Thompson won't even acknowledge the common practice of dealer markup to 'what the market may bear' whenever a hot new car design for a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger arrives on the scene. Neither will he admit the existence of the common stealership practice of gouging every Customer they can for various made up, unofficial, unnecessary fees to increase the selling price. Apparently, he thinks that is 'OK' as long as some Consumers are able to negotiate a favorable 'deal' by knowing how to play the game, or skipping the process and going directly to fleet sales, like he says he does. So, that is why he refuses to comment directly on dealer holdbacks, volume pricing arrangements, Invoice vs MSRP, kick-backs, dealer incentives, sales and marketing co-funding, manufacturer financing, salesforce incentives, time on lot incentives, etc.

weluvm3 | April 17, 2019

"@max89, I'm guessing rwd was dropped because many will choose and AWD for a few thousand more. AWD probably only costs them about 1k so it improves margin."

I would have bought AWD if it was available when I ordered my car. If I was silly enough to pay for FSD a year ago, then why not spend a couple thousand more to get something that is, at least, shipping and functional on the day I pay for it?

To be honest, all this crap about yo-yoing prices aside, my single biggest regret is that I didn't wait for AWD.

But, hey, the silver lining is that, if Congress really does vote to extend the tax rebate/credit, then I will totally consider buying an AWD Model 3 for my "wife" (well, OK, for me, and my wife gets mine.)

But...here's the thing: yes, I am still unhappy about the way Tesla handled this. Yes, other car companies mess with pricing all the time. But, if (for example) GM had flat out promised to give a specific group of owners "something", whatever that "something" was, I'll bet those owners would get it. Because the press, the public, the lawyers, maybe even the FCC would be all over them if they didn't deliver on their "verbal contract" or in some way compensate people if they found they couldn't for some reason.

Yes, they "strongly suggested", but never specifically promised, that I was purchasing EAP+FSD for the best possible price for my SPECIFIC car purchase. That was false: it turns out that I could have added these two software options later for less money, and I never got ANY value from FSD prior to them lowering the price. This has been rehashed ad nauseum, but most of the pro-Tesla arguments conveniently ignore the fact that I am NOT pointing to another person's better deal and whining about that: I could have saved money on MY OWN PURCHASE if I had ignored Tesla and kept my money for a little while longer. And I wouldn't have lost out on any functionality while I waited, because there WAS no delivered FSD functionality. Is it really so hard to just admit that this was a fact that we can all agree on?

But! Even if you don't want to admit that the above is true...what's up with Tesla promising us Early Access invites as a "consolation prize" in a blog post, yet when people call or ask in emails, they still don't specifically say who will get it and when? I have asked, even just this week, and still received non-comitant answers.

Yes, they might eventually send me an invite, and I will be absolutely thrilled and grateful to receive one, but why leave people hanging and wondering in the meantime? If I pre-ordered wheel coverings or something like that from Tesla, even if they didn't know exactly when they would ship, surely they would be willing to clearly state that they WOULD ship them to me ASAP. right? Why is this any different: if they ARE going to do it, eventually, then send everyone who purchased FSD an email clearly stating that fact. Even if they don't know the precise time-frame, they can surely state, unambiguously and in writing, that it is their INTENTION to follow through on this promise.

And yet...they won't.

If Tesla was a person instead of a company, I wouldn't find that person trustworthy if they would refuse to acknowledge their words and stand behind them. This is expected of politicians, but not people that I would want to deal with in my daily life. And not someone that I would preferentially buy a car from.

joe.lynn.atp | April 17, 2019

"This has been rehashed ad nauseum"

Yes it certainly has.

ADinM3 | April 17, 2019

@RED, I'm not sure myself what he has or hasn't stated in the past so I will sidestep that aspect. However, what I will say is that the existing dealer model is doomed in my opinion long term. Tesla has growing pains and room for improvement for sure, but with EVs and today's world they are a dying relic in their current form (they just don't realize it yet). Kind of like arguing one should do all their BMV needs in person versus online.

Many of the people here recently feel dupped, lied, or misinformed by a Tesla sales associate which I'm sure happens but is also rampant throughout the auto industry in general. Being a technology geek, when I go into a Tesla store I am pretty sure I am more knowledgeable on the car and technology than probably 95% of the sales associates but most are actually not bad in my opinion. It was always much worse on a dealer lot to the point I tried never to bother even talking to one unless I wanted a test drive or was ready to make an offer. How many here would go to dealer lots on Sunday or try to sneak in to grab brochures without being seen so as to not be ambushed by a sales ssociate.

When ambushed I would find most either speaking jibberish and untruths or would regurgitate some talking point without actually understanding the implications or being able to go any deeper. Sure, a small few are good but it tends to be the exception. I suspect dealerships must have high turnover of sales associates as it honestly feel like many of them were selling furniture or mattresses the week before.

We talk (and joke) here about people's perception of fairness and getting upset when others get a better deal, but for the most part Tesla is a neutral third party just trying to increase volumes and remain profitable, but I believe traditional dealership are worse in the sense that they are a more active party in trying to directly leverage and manipulate people's emotions in the sales strategies for their cars. The fact that so many are taken to the cleaner but still somehow feel good about their purchase is testament to their effectiveness.

thedrisin | April 17, 2019

@burdogg. I was under the impression that if you purchased EAP only last year for $5k, you could get FSD for $2k earlier this year and if you purchased no autopilot because you could not afford it you could get FSD for $5k at that time as well. Were not these options less than at original purchase?

stephenfootball | April 17, 2019

@Tanner8181 I got my Mid range about a month ago. I skipped the AP and FSD (Would've added $8k) at purchase. A few days after purchase it was $11k to add both until my AP/FSD trial started. Then it was $9k to add both. I was flip flopping everyday about getting both. I had 3 days left on the trial when Tesla changed prices and included AP. The option dropped to $8k so I bought it. But, I hear that price only lasted a day. So, I guess I finally got some good timing! :)

burdogg | April 17, 2019

thedrisin - sure you are referring to the sale they had that lasted what - a week. So yes, some did benefit and pay less than what they were told they would have to pay - but that didn't last long. Prices went right back up - so I see it as a sale - as in all places, stores, etc... do such things to generate cash.

Now if the price had stayed that way - then yes, I would agree that Tesla led one to believe that they better purchase now or it would be more later.

But to that point - at the time they were saying that - it was a true statement - one can't honestly believe that throughout the life of their vehicle that Tesla would never find a way to reduce costs on things. To basically say that they have to hold the cost of Autopilot at x because 5 years ago they told customers it would be more later is bogus.

Now - if Tesla actually full well knew at the time of sale to you that in 2 months it would be cheaper to buy later and yet pushed you to buy it now at the more expensive price - then I have some major issues with the company. But if the sales people at the time had no clue of price change - then they are not pushing a false narrative - they have told you the honest truth - that if you don't buy it now you will pay more later. Lets reverse it - lets say no one told you it would be more later - and after a month of ownership you have more money and want to add it - many would then (we have seen it actually) be up in arms that they are now charging you more for it.

So as we see in this case - it is a no win - you don't tell them it will be more later and you are a fraud for charging more for it later. You tell them it will be more later - and then prices change and drop - now we have people up in arms that they were told it would cost more later.

Context is important - the company charges more for the product later - that is true at the time you buy your car and the company doesn't know though if in x months/years they can afford to offer the prices for it less than they did x months/years ago. So the statement is true at time of buying (unless like I said company full well knew it was going to be cheaper tomorrow but told you it wouldn't be - and that is not the case here)

lordmiller | April 17, 2019

Well said burdogg. These morons will never stop crying about this. It's been explained 1000 times. I just ignore it now but I liked your explanation best.

weluvm3 | April 17, 2019

@burdogg I basically agree with what you wrote. But it would be more fair if you also mentioned that some people prepaid for FSD, which hadn't even been delivered yet (not even an actual delivery date from Tesla!) when they lowered the price charged to other people. That's not really the same thing as purchasing and taking delivery of something that other people eventually paid more or less for, so the same arguments do not apply.

ReD eXiLe ms us | April 17, 2019

weluvm3: Something we can all agree on? Well, IF a frog had wings it wouldn't bump his @$$ on the ground as he hopped along. How's that?

As for your hope for 'clear communication of intent, in writing...' and stuff... Well, please be aware that Tesla is not allowed to say certain things in that manner, precisely, because... lawyers. Also, because the SEC is out to get them and stuff.

Tesla tells its Customers precisely what they must, and nothing else, for a reason. I direct you to learn the specifics of a company called TUCKER for future reference... I direct you to learn the specifics of a company called TUCKER for future reference...

Tucker Torpedo documentary of Preston Tucker
https://youtu.be/RRv06O5XXWk

The similarities to how Tesla has progressed thus far are awfully familiar.

Carl Thompson | April 17, 2019

LOL! As usual everything @ReD said is completely fabricated or a distorted misinterpretation of things I have said. And, no, I have never worked for a car company or dealer. @ReD is a liar.

joe.lynn.atp | April 17, 2019

@weluvm3: You have been complaining about this for a couple of months now. Tesla isn't going to reimburse you. Are you going to let that ruin your whole experience of owning this car? I do believe that most people are as happy as they choose to be. I prepaid for FSD when I ordered last June. I wouldn't give it a second thought, except it seems to perpetually be on the front page of this forum.

weluvm3 | April 17, 2019

@joe.lynn.atp "Tesla isn't going to reimburse you." Perhaps they will. They have said that they would be inviting us to the Early Access Program. That would be a form of reimbursement, albeit non-monetary, if they actually keep their promise and follow through on it.

In fact, I'll make you, and the rest of the readers out there the following promise:

If I do at least get a written promise from Tesla that I will be invited to the Early Access Program, I will consider this issue closed.

Does that sound too unreasonable to you? Or, do you strongly feel that I shouldn't expect them to keep their promise about this? If so, then where do we draw the line: at what point do I have the "right" to get upset about any promise Tesla fails to keep?

burdogg | April 17, 2019

weluvm3 - yes as for those that prepaid for FSD - that one has its interesting merits and coins - as I did pay for that back in 2016. I agree that for something that has yet to have any merit too it - those should get something back somehow. I think that is where they really totally blew it - but the problem stems deeper - it stems from their original pricing - coming out with EAP and FSD - instead of a basic AP and FSD like they have now.

I have delved into this before and can get long. But here we go - the Mobileye breakup hurt Tesla - for short term. In order for them to get to where they wanted to be - they needed to charge more than the $3,000 for autopilot - my opinion - they needed $5,000 and hence came up with advanced features to make it seem worth more than their original $3,000 autopilot. But yet, none of the enhanced was available until just recently - so 2+ years to get any added benefit for $2,000 more. So yes, people paid $2,000 more than what autopilot used to be to not get any difference between the two systems for over 2 years. This left FSD at prepay of $3,000. For some time I said the structure was wrong - $3,000 for AP was a good price especially compared to what the Model 3 was going to cost, and then $5,000 for FSD - as this is the real deal - FSD should cost more than EAP (it does as you have to have EAP but comparing pricing structure, should be paying more for FSD then EAP).

Anyway, as time has marched on - Tesla realized not as many people buying the 3 were probably getting EAP due to the cost. So they had to flip the pricing structure....and in so doing - it really messed everything up. Because now people get most features of EAP for less (sure they don't get lane change, NavonAP, etc...) but those features honestly are not worth $2,000 for most. But now you are in a conudrum - those that never bought EAP - what price do they pay now to add AP that was NOT offered before to them? But if they now get it cheaper - what about those that bought EAP but not FSD? Do they get a bone thrown to them since they paid more for EAP features? Last how do you then make it right for those that paid the whole shebang upfront.

All this is what really messed up Tesla - as there really is no "fair" way in EVRYONE'S mind to make it right. Someone in any of those groups is going to feel like they got a raw deal unless Tesla gives money back - money that Tesla still does not have to be handing back to everyone. So that is to me what brings up Elon's gesture about the Early Access Program - only to say something that he hadn't actually looked into to see if it was really feasible (hmm...Elon saying something before he actually saw if he could do it....no...he would never.....)

Anyway - long story short - yes weluvm3 - ultimately those that paid for the whole thing upfront are the ones that got burned - but many warned - even back in 2016 when I did it, that we were really rolling the dice as there was no guarantee on anything in regards to the FSD. There was no gaurantee that it would come to fruition or that regulation would even allow it - those words were in there when I purchased it back then. The dice were mine to roll and I rolled them - and may have paid for it, but still the bed I was willing to get into. That is me - not saying everyone has to feel that way.

So would it be nice if Tesla did something - sure - but me personally - knowing Tesla and their history and still I chose to buy more cars from them knowing what I know - does not give me personally issues. We have had this discussion and I know it does to you and is still burning you up about the early access program - which is your right to feel as you do.

weluvm3 | April 17, 2019

@burdogg I don't disagree with you. And people do have a right to chose what they will, and will not, take issue with.

Honestly, I have no idea if your personal theories are correct. Tesla won't confirm or deny anything. We are all left to speculate. Whose fault is that? We all know who has the power to clear all of this up, and they intentionally chose not to, either out of embarrassment, to avoid liability, or perhaps they just too arrogant or tone-deaf to care?

But, again, if Tesla at least keeps their promise made to us on this one issue, you won't hear from me again about it.

I'd like to think that we can all agree that Tesla should keep promises made to their customers. Don't blame the victims: blame Tesla for making a promise that they cannot or will not keep.

jithesh | April 17, 2019

I can assure you Elon is not reading this thread :-)

I actually got the sweet deal of 5K for both AP/FSD when they lowered in Feb.
Now if they lower the price tomorrow to below 5K or even make it free I won't complain. I would complain if they increase the price with no added features. The way I see it is if they are just lowering price it means that when I buy another Tesla tomorrow I am getting AP at lower price too so it actually encourages me more to stay with Tesla as a customer.

weluvm3 | April 17, 2019

"I can assure you Elon is not reading this thread :-)"

Well, maybe someone should repost a link on Twitter?

max89 | April 17, 2019

I think it makes sense for FSD price to increase as it gets better and better.

I paid $2,000 for white paint, oh come on! FSD is worth many many times of white exterior paint to me :)

thedrisin | April 17, 2019

@burdogg. Thanks for your answers. At this point, I think the people who didn't catch the last sale would be best to wait for the next one.

jjgunn | April 17, 2019

I'm gambling....I like to gamble - No FSD for me - lets see what happens

ADinM3 | April 17, 2019

I think I've got a theory that might explain part the different points of views expressed here. I realized that many here take everything Elon tweets as literal gospel (i.e "a promise") whereas I simply don't. For people that have followed Elon and Tesla a long time you realize neither fit the mould others (i.e. wall street) want or expect of them. Elon is clearly smart but he is impulsive and quirky by nature. We all mostly agree when we are talking here about how the media or Wallstreet just doesn't get or understand them, but it's clear many here also diverge when we talk about Tesla's approach and policies. I've known people like Elon personally, though not as smart or successful and because I understand they are different I view what they say through a different lens, similar to how you don't get upset by something a 5 year old says versus the same thing coming from an adult.

We all know the price drop/store closing debacle went sideways on them for whatever reason, which we could speculate, but once it happened Elon's and Tesla normal reaction is to act fast and coarse correct on the fly. This is heralded as a key strength of Tesla, but can also look dumb when it doesn't play out well. On the whole I believe risking screwing up royally 1 in 10 times is worth the benefit of being nimble in the long run In this recent case, Elon and team are trying to salvage the situation quickly and in typical Elon fashion throws out the proposals to try and coarse correct and still be somewhat fair. Hence, the comment on giving those who purchased EAP+FSD entry into the Early Access program, which later turns out to not be practical. Some here take the tweet as a contractual promise where as I just see Elon being impulsive and many of those statements need to be reconfirmed and vetted within the organization before they stand and become policy. Yes, I know he represents the company and there are always bounds, but I also feel we can't cheer him as a maverick in some situations, but then not in others especially when its clear the comment is knee jerk and off the cuff. I accept I'm probably giving him more rope than others here, but I want him to run as fast as possible to the extremes and only jerk the rope when he is about to go over the edge.

Do others seem to have also have a feel for when he stating something clearly thought through versus something spontaneous (I would hope so)? And if so, do you treat those comments differently or just think it doesn't matter, he said it so I'm taking it to the bank?

As an poor example: If Elon said Telsa would only provide quarterly software releases going forward some here would probably feel an unwritten implied agreement had been violated, but probably would mostly still be ok. If Elon said 1 week later that he decided to go every 6 months some could view that as breaking the "promise" made the previous week. If instead he stated he would go to monthly releases no one would bat an eye and certainly not feel the first statement anyway constrained him, although they may make fun of the flip flopping.

Lastly, I hear the comment "Telsa lied", and "Tesla promised FSD would be higher in the future", etc. I never saw that. All prices are subject to change and all Tesla ever said is if you buy today it is cheaper that an after the fact purchase "today". Tomorrow, both of the numbers are subject to change. I believe they could have made it more clear, but at minimum I think people have to agree there are two interpretations, therefore you have to assume the worse or get confirmation in writing as you do not get to just unilaterally decide what the intent was. I know there are price match examples on some things when you prepay for something (i.e. Amazon), but there are an equal number of counter examples where price match doesn't apply (i.e. pre-booking a flights).

I won't try to convince people that they are wrong in their expectations, but only ask they simply consider that there may a simpler explanation than Elon/Tesla purposefully lying, misleading, and trying to take advantage of people.

Enjoy life and the car, and save your energy for the battles worth fighting...

user705459 | April 17, 2019

I have a 2019 model 3 lr awd got it mid february AP was not an option just EAP was now a littile more then a month later AP is standard shouldn't I get a free upgrade just like tesla did with dog mode, sentry mode, atari games, the single motor cars with increase from 310 to 325 miles

elecfan2 | April 17, 2019

I have no problem with Tesla changing prices, none whatsoever. Things happen. My only gripe is FSD was sold back in October 2018 and we were promised it would cost more. FSD is still pie in the sky, nothing released. Tesla then sold FSD to current owners that didn't buy at delivery, basically people that didn't give a free loan for no product delivery and didn't support Tesla early on. They got it cheaper than those of us that supported Tesla. We paid for a product that was not yet released, yet Tesla sold it to other people for cheaper even though they told us that we'd get it cheaper if we bought back then. I know nowadays that we can't call people liars if they don't tell the truth, it's the age of Trump and everything goes. I know that Tesla is not a charity, ti's a for profit company with public shareholders. I don't get why people are upset that some of us are calling Tesla out on the carpet that they lied. It's what they did, they didn't tell the truth. Just say it like it is, accept it, hold accountable the vision that we are all working towards and more forward. Holding onto the idea that Tesla is some charity and that they can do no wrong is not doing the "cause" or Tesla any favors.

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