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Model 3 mid range - actual range?

Model 3 mid range - actual range?

I've developed a gut feeling that my range isn't actually 260 (264?) miles, so I've started to keep track of the stats. After long trips, I back-calc the range as:

[(Miles driven) / (battery % used)] / [(actual efficiency) / (rated efficiency)]

For example, in a recent trip, I traveled 112.2 miles, used 52% of the battery, while averaging 267 wH/mi. I back-calced the range as:

(112.2/0.52)/(267/240) = 240 mi

I've done this a half dozen times, and each time the calculated range is between 235 and 245 miles with an average of 240.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is the extra 20 miles range held in reserve below 0%?

Bighorn | April 26, 2019

@OK
240 is not the correct number. Even the P3D manages 234 Wh/m. GIGO. MR is likely around 210 but I’ve not seen anyone properly derive it.

OK Computer | April 27, 2019

@Bighorn
Wow - 210? Considering the car tells me 240 and the epa tells me (roughly) 247, that seems kind of low. Call me crazy, but I would think if you drive at the rated efficiency (according to the car) , you should get the rated range.

Stach | April 27, 2019

I think Bighorn was referring to a 210 Wh/m for your 3 MR, not that it had a 210 mile range.

OK Computer | April 27, 2019

@stach

Yep I got that.

HummerMan3 | April 27, 2019

2018 MR here, I average 240Wh/mi, so I end up with an effective range in the 260 mi ballpark.

sananpx | April 27, 2019

Yes I average less than 240w/H all the time and real range is ,ore than 260 miles. I am in Midwest so winter range will suck.

Hal Fisher | April 27, 2019

Realize at best you can only use about 80% of that range due to never charging above 90% or dropping below 10%. My commute doesn’t even allow me that because id wind up short and have to park at a charger for a bit. But none of this really matters because I can take less than a minute to charge at home every night if needed.

Bighorn | April 27, 2019

@OK
Yeah, both those numbers are incorrect. We’ve been doing much deeper dives on this stuff for 6 years now. Happy to help you understand, but my debating days are aspirationally behind me. You’ll discover extensive discussions through searching, more in the Model S side.
LR AWD is 234
LR RWD is 219
EPA/Monroney data accounts for line losses from the wall.
The car’s line at 240 is the same on all models and pertinent to none. The Model S line is at 300 and reflects the energy needed to add a rated mile. It takes 278 Wh to extract a rated mile.

Almost everybody gets it wrong, including myself initially, unless you actually derive the data from empiric experience.

dearvenumadhav | April 27, 2019

{
"battery_level": 75,
"usable_battery_level": 75,
"charge_energy_added": 11.29,
"charge_miles_added_ideal": 48,
"charge_miles_added_rated": 48,
"battery_range": 197.45,
"ideal_battery_range": 197.45,
"est_battery_range": 189.55
}

Tesla calculates 11.29/48 = ~235.2 wh/m
If you drive at that level, you should get full range (minus non driving usage like sentry mode, a/c when not driving etc)

NKYTA | April 27, 2019

JSON FTW ;-)

Bighorn | April 27, 2019

@dearvenumadhav

In real life, I’ve not seen anyone achieve 75 kWh extracted, real or extrapolated.

Also the energy added to add a rated mile is different than the energy required to travel a rated mile.

Lastly, OP has a MR, not LR, battery with different parameters.

jimglas | April 27, 2019

Drive below 65 mph and you will have no problem
P3D (Rated 310): 384 @ 55 mph, 326 @ 65 mph, 275 @ 75 mph, 251 @ 80 mph

dearvenumadhav | April 27, 2019

@Bighorn this data is from my MR, and it's ~62 kWh

after the non-driving factors considered, energy required should be close to energy added.
battery warming, overheat protection, sentry, awake time while parked etc..

@NKYTA yeah, JSON is life :)

dearvenumadhav | April 27, 2019

Multiple short drives give less range than a long drive for the same miles because of the energy used for prep

Bighorn | April 27, 2019

@dear
I read the “battery level 75” to mean LR. The delta on the 85kWh Model S between adding and subtracting energy is 22 Wh/RM. CAN bus data doesn’t quite match what happens on the road.

OK Computer | April 27, 2019

@Bighorn.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not trying to debate you - just trying to learn (and maybe venting a bit). This also sheds a new light on those winter months when I was averaging 330 Wh/mi.

gballant4570 | April 27, 2019

I've learned that my own wh/m will never directly provide specific information to someone else, due to the many factors that can be different. But perhaps there is some value in a comparative data point. My Model 3 is AWD LR, which I took possession of on Oct 9 last year in Maryland. I've driven it 9677 miles. My lifetime wh/m average reached a high of 256 about 6 weeks ago, and is 248 today. By the time the one year anniversary comes, I expect it to be right around the 234 area that the EPA rating is based on. My driving is about 40% interstate (70-80 mph) and about 60% slower (30-60 mph).

Teslanene | April 27, 2019

I just went to super charge my midrange and at 80% I was at 201 and 90% 222. I have never charge to 100% but it looks like if I did I would get near 245 at the moment. Is battery degrading already or it’s recalculating itself?

Teslanene | April 27, 2019

I forgot to say I have already about 10k miles in 4 months.

Bighorn | April 27, 2019

@Teslanene
My LR started at 310, dropped to 299 at 23k miles, then came back to 307. Range can not be accurately measured, so I wouldn’t attribute changes to degradation.

dearvenumadhav | April 27, 2019

@Bighorn
"battery_level": 75 is actually the battery percentage when I took that data.

EM34ME | April 27, 2019

I consistently get right at 265 miles range with my 12/18 MR build with aero covers on, but I am a speed limit driver and keep it in "chill mode."

myTelsa2020 | April 28, 2019

Got my M3 MR last month. Today is the first day I charge to full for a trip, noticed at full charge, the range on top of the battery icon is only 235, from what I remember, MR should be at 260. I understand the actual range may be different for different driving habits and conditions, but shouldn't the full charged range be = battery size and range estimated by the EPA method, and be what they advertised?

Bighorn | April 28, 2019

@Knox
Should be EPA figure, unaffected by driving habits. Charging habits can throw off calibration, but not that much.

myTelsa2020 | April 28, 2019

@Bighorn, the 1st car at the lot they show me was rejected (was a 2018 model they are trying to sell me at March), they quickly found another car that match the options I ordered (they claimed). Now I suspected they battery are for SR, SR+, and MR are all the same, but just software config as need to reduce cost. I will take it back to their showroom early next week to find out what's going on.

BTW, is there anywhere on the M3's screen where I can see all the battery size in KWH? or a sticker somewhere?

Bighorn | April 28, 2019

@knox
I agree—I suspect they didn’t unleash your paid for kWhs. No way to see them on the screen and the screen can be inaccurate as to Model configuration.

fazman | March 24, 2020

@jimglass Do you have the P3D+

“ Drive below 65 mph and you will have no problem
P3D (Rated 310): 384 @ 55 mph, 326 @ 65 mph, 275 @ 75 mph, 251 @ 80 mph”

I have no idea how you manage such an amazing range on this car. At best I can do 3 miles per kwh. When I do a long range drive of 280 miles I still had to stop and charge to almost full 3 times to be able to make it that 280 distance.

Sorry for the old thread revival.

Bighorn | March 24, 2020

@fazman
I had no choice but to make 295 miles between superchargers in my P3D-. Fortunately the speed limit was majority 50 mph through Maine, but rose to 68 (110) in New Brunswick. Extrapolated range to empty was over 330 miles. I had some backup 70A options in my hip pocket, but never contemplated using them.

spuzzz123 | March 24, 2020

Fazman are you a newish owner who has only driven in cold weather (below 50f)? 3 miles per kWh is pretty bad (if that’s the best you can get...very typical of what I get in cold weather). And not sure I can believe you stopping to supercharge 3 times in a 300 mile trip (unless you started on empty and even then it’s a stretch). Assuming you have a SR model, that’s something like 2 miles per kWh, (or the inverse 500wh/mi) and these are atrocious values. Do you know your lifetime wh/mile?