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Free Unlimited Supercharging Removed Without Notice?

Free Unlimited Supercharging Removed Without Notice?

2014 P85 lost free supercharging a couple weeks ago. Didn't notice until suddenly charges appeared on account and I received emails asking for payment method. As most here are probably aware all P85 prior to 2017 came with unlimited supercharging that transferred to next owner, I'm the 2nd owner. Anyone else experience this? Phone support was unable to assist and said I would have to wait on response from email support, few days with no response.

murphyS90D | August 4, 2019

Did you buy it from Tesla or a third party? It has been reported that Tesla is removing it from all used cars that they resell.

Bighorn | August 4, 2019

Could be a clerical error or real if it was a recent purchase from Tesla, as noted above.

jaredm25 | August 4, 2019

Purchased from a 3rd party. Free supercharging was properly displayed on the account after transfer of ownership, it was 2 months later before it disappeared. I know Tesla had started removing it from CPO vehicles around the same time this happened to me, certainly within their rights to remove features from a car they own before reselling it but removing items of value from a car they don't own is very different. Hopefully just an error but have heard of at least one other owner affected.

2015P90DI | August 4, 2019

Can't say for sure, but I'm fairly certain there's some documentation somewhere that free supercharging on older cars stays with the car through the life of the car. May have to do an internet search, but I "think" that was more of an option that stayed with the car. They charged $2,000 for it on the 60 kwh cars and it was effectively an option, similar to Auto Pilot. That should stay with the car. Would be like them taking AP away from cars previously sold with it. Or even taking away a physical option on the car.

Agreed, they can do what they want with their CPO cars as they own them and can remove wheels, AP and whatnot, but to take something away from someone who owns the car isn't right. Unless of course there's documentation somewhere relating to that particular car that says they can.

RightHandRule | August 5, 2019

I am selling my 2014 S 85 and my account still clearly states free unlimited SC transfers with a sale to a private party - so hopefully you can correct your issue.

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

Just got an email response from Tesla, they are claiming they can and are removing this from all 3rd party sales contrary to their own terms on these vehicles. "Thank you for contacting Tesla! My records indicate that you purchased this vehicle from a third-party seller. Unfortunately as of April 23rd, 2019, all Tesla vehicles purchased at third-party dealers/vendors will lose their unlimited Supercharging statuses. There may have been a slight delay in some credits disappearing as our systems had to implement the change fleet-wide. I apologize for the inconvenience."
I responded insisting this be escalated for an official justification as this contradicts not only the original terms but also the terms displayed on my Tesla account after I purchased the vehicle.

Yodrak. | August 5, 2019

You wrote in an earlier post that you purchased your Tesla from a 3rd party. Please clarify if the 3rd party was a "dealer/vendor" or the individual who owned the car. Just wondering how far this new policy goes. Thanks

Huachipato | August 5, 2019

Jared - when did they tell you that? The date I've been tossed was July 19th for the policy change, but I never had Unlimited - I'm just trying to get it added on for now.

tes-s | August 5, 2019

Not the position I would have expected Tesla to take since they are now offering free unlimited with new cars.

Perhaps they want to keep it to the first owner - so the only way to get free unlimited is to buy it new from Tesla, or get one of the early cars with transferrable free unlimited in a private sale.

I think you have a claim against the third-party seller since it is missing an important feature they sold you.

rxlawdude | August 5, 2019

"I think you have a claim against the third-party seller since it is missing an important feature they sold you."

I think there's a claim against Tesla, for changing explicit terms without notice.

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

Yodrak, my purchase was from a 3rd party dealer not from an individual. Although I'm not sure there is any way they would be able to know that if I didn't mention it. I don't think dealers would typically go through the transfer of ownership process with Tesla so on the surface the purchaser would appear to be the 2nd owner unless they took the time to review details of ownership paperwork submitted or search title history.

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

Huachipato, they sent me that response just this morning. Your July 19th date makes sense to me as I can tell that is the exact date my kwh balance stopped replenishing. Regardless of what date they are claiming I never received any notice, nor have I heard of anyone else receiving a notice of this change.

johncrab | August 5, 2019

This has become the way of things in 2019. No means of contact other than email and a response (if one comes at all) of "Thank you for contacting Tesla. Up Yours! Have a nice day." They also reached out to me to offer ludicrous for free, pointing out it is a "$20k value". That means nothing at all to me. It's great that it can be done, technically but I really don't care if my car can go 0-60 in 2.0 when I'm on my way home from Trader Joe's. The big sticking points were A) Loss of pano roof, B) Loss of "premium connectivity" (not a big deal in terms of $ but the principle of the thing) C) Loss of unlimited supercharging which was never "free". It was a $2500 adder to my car when I bought it and there was no way not to have it. I did want it, so I was fine and someone has to pay for the infrastructure.

This is just another installment of Tesla has no idea what it is doing and as mentioned above, a new gimmick almost every day. I'll add, a new buggy update once a week. This is a complete breakdown of C3 (Command, Control, Communication) within the company which seems to charge off in forty directions at once. They must get this under control and they need to do it now.

And while I'm on it, what the hell would be wrong in offering unlimited supercharging as an option for say $4k? Pay once and never think about it again. Even lay out terms so that it ends when you sell or trade the car. Be transparent about it, not changing terms in the middle of the night. Since only a few would ever use that much energy (even at 0.28/kwh), this would be a great way to bring in extra cash which would not have to go out in goods or services right away. Offer it on all models. It's a no-brainer, unless one is in Tesla management.

tes-s | August 5, 2019

"I think there's a claim against Tesla, for changing explicit terms without notice."

IANAL, but how would he have a claim against Tesla with whom he has no contract? The third-party also has no contract with Tesla. Isn't it the original owner who would have a claim against Tesla?

Regardless, I think it is petty of Tesla even if what they are doing is legal. They should simple have all the old cars keep free supercharging until Tesla buys them.

rxlawdude | August 5, 2019

The vehicle was sold with explicit language that FUSC was transferrable to subsequent owners. This buyer has a copy of the original MVPA. Technically, privity runs to the seller that sold to the current owner, but that doesn't change the analyses that Tesla in multiple venues over several years marketed FUSC as transferrable. In fact, I believe the language was along the lines of, "it follows the VIN, not the owner."

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

RXLAWDUDE is correct. The language is very clear on these vehicles, prior to my purchase it stated "You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner." Seeing this prior to purchase and still seeing it on my account after transfer of ownership makes the case very clear to me, they have devalued my vehicle by removing an included feature post-sale.

tes-s | August 5, 2019

So the first owner sells to the dealer, and Tesla transfers FUSC to the dealer.

Does Tesla now have an obligation to transfer it from the dealer to the next owner, or would the dealer's FUSC say it is for as long as they own the vehicle?

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

Technically they could make that shady argument that the dealer counts as the "next owner" although I don't think dealers generally bother going through the transfer of ownership process so as far as official Tesla account holders I would only be the 2nd owner. Not to mention the language was carried forward to my account long after my transfer of ownership was completed.

pete | August 5, 2019

Mine still states "You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

Pete, when did you purchase and was it from Tesla direct or a private seller/dealer? I would take a screenshot of that along with your VIN should it suddenly disappear.

EVRider | August 5, 2019

I have a feeling that this is something that Tesla will be walking back in the near future...

2015P90DI | August 5, 2019

@rxlawdude - get to work! Aren't you an attorney? Stand up for the Tesla community and advise Tesla of the error of their ways.

They can't simply change their mind and change contract terms without agreement from the owner of the vehicle. If I take my car in, they can't say, we don't want you to have a 100D battery, so we changed it out for a 60 kWh battery. Supercharging was treated as a tangible option, not a temporary service benefit. Just like AP or FSD. Again, if they own the car, they can do what they want with it, but if they haven't owned it since it was new, they're in the wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Just need someone to stand up to them so they correct it, which they've done in the past when they've tried to make similar moves.

Teslavie | August 5, 2019

I bought my 2016 90D from an independent dealer. It came with lifetime free supercharging. I just checked the status on tesla.com. It still says lifetime, and transferable to the next buyer.

rxlawdude | August 5, 2019

@2015, sorry, while I do know a thing or two about
consumer and contract law, I don't practice in that area of law.

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

Teslavie, when did you purchase your 90D? They are claiming they stopped honoring these terms on April 23rd although I have yet to see any published announcement or notice sent to owners regarding this devaluation of their private vehicles.

Yodrak. | August 5, 2019

"my purchase was from a 3rd party dealer not from an individual."

Thanks for clarifying that. So I'm wondering if Tesla is still honoring the FUSC for used vehicle's that pass from individual to individual? Very disappointing that Tesla seems to be stripping the benefit from used vehicles that pass through itself or a dealer.

rkr96 | August 5, 2019

I've been enjoying my 2016 S75 about 10 days now. It was purchased from Tesla, but the sales guy said it was NOT a CPO. I have not seen CPO on their website. Can someone enlighten me?

My car came with free unlimited supercharging and the website ad said it goes to the next owner as well.

rxlawdude | August 5, 2019

The only disadvantage of a third party dealer has been inability to purchase the extended service agreement ( aka "extended warranty"). The lack of transferable FUSC through a third party dealer was never announced, and I question whether they can unilaterally change this.

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

@Yodrak Good question, not yet aware of any private sales where this has happened. Nowhere has there been any announcement or fine print documented from Tesla stating dealer sales are exempt from these very clear terms. Even after my purchase my account continued to state FUSC would transfer to the next owner so I should have been able to sell it again without the car being stripped of this feature. Which makes perfect sense considering for all sales until 2017 Tesla's website clearly stated "life of the car."
"If your Tesla was ordered by January 15, 2017, it comes with free Supercharger access for the life of the car. You will not pay for Supercharger use but idle fees may be assessed if your vehicle remains connected to a Supercharger after the charge session is complete."

jaredm25 | August 5, 2019

@rkr96 Do you have a link or pic of the ad stating it has FUSC and transfers to next owner?
I don't recall if Tesla has ever actually used the term Certified Pre-Owned, I believe all of the used vehicles they sell directly come with a warranty so most would describe these as CPO.

nothotpocket | August 5, 2019

@jaredm25 I'm pretty sure that you figured out the way that Tesla is playing this. An owner sells the car to a dealer (after the terms of service were updated on April 23rd) and the dealer then has the unlimited supercharging. However, the dealer sells the car to a customer and the unlimited supercharging is removed at this second transfer.

It appears that if someone buy a 2015 Model S directly from a private party the unlimited supercharging will transfer as per the terms of agreement when the car was first purchased. Presumably, when they sell the car at a later date the unlimited supercharging will not follow the vehicle.

And I suppose that Tesla is going to state that "You will not pay for Supercharger use" :-) Because "you" won't. It's the next guy!

Teslavie | August 5, 2019

This is what it says for my 2016 MS90D on Tesla.com:
Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms.

Daisy the Road ... | August 5, 2019

Tesla can't (contractually) remove FUSC from any third party deal, dealer or not.
Most likely this MS you bought was an off-lease vehicle. I looked at several of these before buying new.

The way this happened to you is that Tesla wholesales their off-lease vehicles to smaller dealers who then sell them to the public. The sale to you didn't remove FUSC. It was the sale from Tesla to the dealer that did it.

You have a claim against the dealer for miss-representing the vehicle. Similarly, the dealer has a claim against Tesla for the same. Unfortunately you don't have a direct claim against Tesla.
In other words, this is a mess and it will take time and $ to fix.

2015P90DI | August 6, 2019

A lease is different. The lessee does not "own' the car. US Bank has done most of the leasing on Teslas in the past. I know Tesla does their own loans and I think they do their own leases as well and are doing more of them now that they can afford it. So that would be completely different. If it was a Tesla leased vehicle, then Tesla is the actual owner of the car and in that case, when the car is turned in at the end of the lease, it's their car. Or, if was owned by US BANK, then possibly they could have made an agreement with US BANK to contractually remove it as an option from the vehicle as US BANK was the actual owner of the car. If they agreed, then you have a mutually agreed upon contract that would allow for it.

Another loophole that Tesla finds its way through to do things as they choose. I guess if buying a used Tesla, better figure out if the car was leased or owned and confirm that unlimited SC is still active on the car you're buying.

jaredm25 | August 6, 2019

The problem I have with any type of argument they would try to make regarding lease, dealer, limited number of owner transfers, etc. is that at no point was any limitation to the clearly stated terms published. As others have noted all of these pre-2017 vehicles still to this day display "Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner." If I see this on a vehicle I'm about to purchase or in my case a vehicle I already purchased then clearly I am either the "current owner" or "next owner." There is no ambiguity as to the vehicle having FUSC in either case. This is also consistent with other information Tesla originally published stating these vehicles had FUSC "for the life of the car." They have just as much right to disable my air conditioning or any other feature of tangible value that existed at time of purchase. I would argue even less right to do this as it has a clear financial impact, usage costs as well as devaluation of the vehicle.

Silver2K | August 6, 2019

Disabling a feature is a very odd move, but I did say long ago that Tesla needs to start acting like a car manufacturer that needs to make money. So there you go.

Huachipato | August 6, 2019

As a recent buyer of a '15 MS P85D I thought the policy was the FUSC followed the car. I specifically hunted for the 85KW battery just to avoid the possibility that the first owner didn't buy the FUSC with a 60KW battery. @201P90DI - is there a real way that one can verify the FUSC on a car they don't yet own? I love it when people say "just confirm Unlimited SC" as if there is a site or Customer service for a company that will provide that information with no ambiguity for a non-owner. But in all sincerity - if you do know the way to double check these details please post them here for future owners to know how it can be done.

Nowhere was there any indication at the time that my car would not have FUSC from anything I read - and I'd like to think I keep up with things pretty well.

After I purchased the car but before it was added to my account is when I started reading about reports that Tesla was stripping FUSC from the used cars on their site. I still thought I was in the clear at that point since my sale was already completed before the Tesla's site was updated to remove FUSC from used vehicles. When the car was finally added - I only get that 400KWh stipend - and a "glad you got a Tesla but pound sand" response when I try to argue I should still have FUSC.

I do feel cheated - and just like Jared is pointing out - there are no clear policies in writing to be found anywhere to better understand how things really will work out when you buy the car. I have a feeling the car I purchased falls under the description Daisy of the Road is describing - which is still feels like the Tesla is hunting for ways to remove features from a private sale.

jaredm25 | August 6, 2019

@Huachipato, the only way I know of is to view the Tesla account attached to the car online. There is a Supercharging section under the Manage option that will display either FUSC or the yearly stipend and credit balance. Of course you would have to have the current owner do that before transfer of ownership is processed by Tesla. Although I think everyone is in agreement that it was not possible to purchase a MS P prior to 2017 without the lifetime free supercharging, probably safe to say every original owner still has this displayed on their account.

rxlawdude | August 6, 2019

@Daisy, thanks for describing "privity." :-)

tes-s | August 6, 2019

The only way I know of ensuring you are getting a feature is to have it part of the purchase agreement. I guess that does not ensure you get it - but I think it does give you recourse if you don't.

jaredm25 | August 6, 2019

@rxlawdude @Daisy, I understand and appreciate the privity argument but that would only apply if the terms of the original sales contract, to which we were not a party, were our only claim. But in reality Tesla has previously documented these terms in public forums and more importantly in MY account. The FUSC terms were clearly stated in my Tesla account after transfer of ownership was completed. That gave me privity separate from whatever contract the original owner may or may not have had. IF Tesla had any valid legal standing to remove the terms prior to our during transfer of ownership it became irrelevant when they did not do so.
I also would be curious how far the privity argument in general could go even if it did apply. Could Tesla decide to disable my air conditioning, downgrade my rims...technically only the original owner had any contractual rights to the vehicle as it was originally sold. The other legal standard that would apply is ability to demonstrate damages. Minor modifications via software updates for example would be difficult to demonstrate tangible damages but in this case there is a very clear financial damage related to the added cost of ownership and devaluation of the vehicle.

Silver2K | August 6, 2019

These long posts are like chloroform*

*Thanks Jim Gaffigan

tes-s | August 6, 2019

@jaredm25 - how about the opposite? You thought you were going to get FUSC, but it showed up in your account as not there upon transfer. Would you then say it was not initially in my account, so I am no longer entitled to it?

Or would you say to Tesla they made a mistake, and you are supposed to have FUSC and expect them to correct the error?

Because Tesla made an error on the transfer, does not obligate them to provide FUSC.

BTW, IANAL and did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Sounds like you are, or perhaps did.

Silver2K | August 6, 2019

If free supercharging is under included options on the window sticker, it can be disabled by Tesla.

Also, policy can be changed workout notice

jaredm25 | August 6, 2019

@tes-s That assumes there was indeed an error. The expectation of FUSC is based on actual terms clearly published by Tesla and nothing to the contrary has ever been published. Still today I could ask a current owner of a pre-2017 model to show me their Tesla account and it would display these terms indicating FUSC and the fact that it will transfer to the next owner. If I then purchase said vehicle the only error Tesla could make is not transferring it. In my case they correctly did transfer it. That only makes my case that much clearer when they remove it 2 months later without legal justification or even a notification.
@Silver2K I'm not sure I follow the statement that included options can be disabled. Heat/AC, rims, sunroof....? "Reserve the right to change our policies" has limitations and generally requires notification at a minimum if there is tangible impact to involved parties. In this case they have not changed the policy because as I mentioned you can look at any pre-2017 vehicle to this day and still see these terms clearly displayed.

rxlawdude | August 6, 2019

"If free supercharging is under included options on the window sticker, it can be disabled by Tesla.

Also, policy can be changed workout notice."

Disagree. It's not policy, it's part of the vehicle's legal delivery-when-new features. (Before you ask about all the new features added by OTA updates that Tesla could take away, nope. OTA updates was and always has been ALSO part of the delivery-when-new features).
While I agree that technically Tesla can remove FUSC or EAP or FSD from any vehicle they receive back in trade, let's face it - that's pretty bush league, and amounts to double dipping revenue.

All of these changes - removing FUSC from vehicles that had "lifetime, transferable FUSC," but now re-introducing FUSC for new S and X purchases are very concerning to me. They sound like desperation moves and further embolden short sellers with a plausible argument.

Long and strong on TSLA, but keeping my finger close to the "sell" button.

tes-s | August 6, 2019

@jaredm25 - you are not the "next owner".
@rxlawdude - agree. I don't understand why Tesla would do this. Seems like they are aggravating a lot of people for no particular reason.

Take it off on used cars they sell - fine. And that can apply to cars that the own after they come off lease, and wholesale. But if it does not pass through Tesla, makes no sense to remove it.

2015P90DI | August 6, 2019

Wow, is lawdude finally one that's tired of the kook-aide? I actually agree with everything you said.

jaredm25 | August 6, 2019

@tes-s I agree, I am the current owner. As the FUSC terms were displayed on my account alongside my VIN after transfer of ownership I became the current owner of the vehicle and the terms properly attached to it. All of this is consistent with all language published by Tesla since the day these models began production, not a word to the contrary until Tesla removed without notice from a privately owned vehicle. Whether an intentional decision or an error on their part is not yet clear as responses are very slow from them these days.

Silver2K | August 6, 2019

I agree with Tesla that they can disable supercharging for life for vehicles they have possession of, but I am against them disabling supercharging for life when they did not regain possession of the vehicle.

If the vehicle was purchased with that option/feature the owner should be able to pass it on a private sale.

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