The Porsche Taycan was able to finish the Nurburgring in 7:42 and now Tesla is sending a MS Performance there to test what their lap time would be.
Who thinks the Tesla will be faster around the ring or slower?
I would be interested to see what a M3 Performance completes the ring in..
I occasionally do YouTube videos on cars and here’s a quick one on my opinion on the Taycan vs Tesla. Please let me know if you agree or disagree.
I am guessing a few people at Porsche are VERY worried about that answer. What does Elon have up his sleeve this time? I think the Taycan should win, it appears to be more track focused and has the Porsche suspension and brake magic supposedly. Really, if it is even close, Tesla wins. Porsche is trying to convince people you CAN'T track a Tesla, so just by completing a lap in a reasonable time, Tesla wins.
The other fun thing is that we don't know how stock that Taycan was. It was a pre-release prototype after all. Did they tweak the software or anything else on the vehicle?
My guess: S is faster.
S is much faster. The Taycan was a “prototype” and not a production vehicle.
If you think Elon won’t preview some tech from Roadster 2.0 or doesn’t have something up his sleeve, then you haven’t been around here long.
Maybe the S will be driverless with FSD and all.
Holy crap that would be funny.
Driverless Tesla sets record. Story at 11
Well I hope he at least brings a Semi along and have it run a lap or two also.
I'd love for Tesla to come out ahead, but unless some major battery tech mods are in place, I don't see how the S can do well on a long track, although perhaps one lap will be ok. In the past, the battery gets too hot and performance suffers - especially on multiple laps. Seems they figured out the tech in the Model 3, so Tesla does know what to do - just not in the S current design.
One area the Taycan may excel at is regen braking. Seems like they may have about 4 times the regen over the S. Now it's less clear if that has any effect to track time. Consider a good track time is mostly dependant on traction. Having 100 times the regen of the current Tesla doesn't mean you can actually use it without destroying your tires and losing control. You also still have great brakes in both cars, so I suspect regen differences have zero effect to the track.
"Tesla cheats in ring test by running driverless for weight savings" (/s) The damn sentence is making me chuckle when I proofread it...
I'm a proud M3 owner and I would love to see what times different Teslas could do around the "Ring". I've also been driving a 1972 Porsche since I bought it in 1982, so I follow Porsche news. Remember that Porsche has been winning the prototype class at Le Mans the last couple of years with their 919 hybrids. Although hybrids aren't true electric vehicles, the racing experience involving motor and control technology does transfer into their Taycan design. Until Tesla has a racing program to learn from, I wouldn't expect them to have a faster time than Porsche.
Any time that the Tesla logs will be great for the EV world because it will be fast and it will show that a non-racing company can produce a performance car using EV technology.
If you want to look at incredible times, the Porsche 919 Hybrid came in at 5:20 and the VW Electric Prototype ran a 6:05. These aren't production cars, though.
@tm4000m +1 lol
Maybe they could put a weighted starman in the drivers seat just to make it fair.
Who is driving makes all the difference in the world when different vehicles are similar in performance. A fully loaded Taycan is over twice the price of a Model S.
Porsche used a professional driver Lars Kern for the lap around the 'ring.
Looking at the photo of the pre-series (aka not production) mule used, interior is not stock. It had racing seats (lighter) and probably had non-essential interior equipment removed. Wouldn't surprise me if this pre-series had stickier tires, smaller battery pack, motor with more advanced timing, etc to get the time.
I bet Tesla will demo a new version of summon.
It would take production cars from Tesla and Porsche, nothing either factory “set up”, and a reliable third party tester no matter what claims Tesla or Porsche make. So the track results won’t be known for some time.
As always, amusing to watch the angst of the Tesla loyalists as they get confused and freak out over Tesla’s mission succeeding.
This is an interesting era we live in.
car manufacturers challenging each other with the performance of their EVs.
I LOVE my model 3. I’m waiting for my 7 seater model Y.
But then I will have to choose between a Roadster 2.0 and Porsche Taycan. Let the track decide.
Misha Charoudin posted a picture of a Model S with Pilot Sport Cup 2 at Nürburgring . Presumably he's the one who will be driving it. He's a resident expert driver who knows every bit of the track blindfolded.
No freakout. Tesla has succeeded in pulling other car makers to the EV age. More to go but it's here. Now it's competing to make better EVs.
The freakout will be heard from Porsche fans if MS beats the Taycan time. lol
Swapped a word and it's quite apropos:
As always, amusing to watch the angst of the Tesla haters as they get confused and freak out over Tesla’s mission succeeding.
Musk should send the Model S - and SpaceX Roadster.
Someone is already scared Tesla is going to win the ring. Lol.
My guess is Tesla is going to send a next gen Model S Performance over that is running the "Track Mode" tech that currently exists in the Model 3. Maybe even have it be the 2020 model with subtle design changes, new clean interior, and promote the car as the new Model S at the same price they currently sell far. I'm taking 50/50 odds on this one.
2020 Tesla Model S Performance now w/track mode
0-60mph = 2.2s
1/4 mile = 9.99
Nurburgring Time = 7.40 (software limited)
Can’t wait to see that
I’m more excited than a Tesla unveil event
I thought you need to book months in advance, & Nurburgring is one of the most popular tracks in Europe due to the design.
I don't think someone from tesla just shows up and drives around.
I could be wrong
Pretty sure you can drive around in traffic, just won’t have exclusive access. So the posted time won’t be the best possible, but that may be the idea - look we can do ~8 minutes in traffic, and maybe far better without traffic (which won’t be tested until they can get a booking, maybe next year once the track reopens).
Also I’ve heard Tesla’s suspension engineers are best of the best. Years of racing experience may not matter quite as much here. A racetrack and a cars Performance on it are easy to simulate these days.
drive around in traffic? Pretty sure you can't
@ALDONY - you definitely can. check this out - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD8gvM8M1zE
When you test cars like porsche and Ferrari to set a speed record you need to make sure you are closing the circuit.
If you just want to drive around for fun without setting any records I think it's suicidal and dangerous for others. The north loop is open to the public, yes but porsche had the whole place for themselves... It would be stupid for Elon to send a car there to drive around whit other cars.
Maybe Elon has friends in high places.
Thanks for the link.. Let's hope that they make an exception for tesla and hold the traffic
Friends and money, nice combo. ; ).
Of course he could always claim the Germans are cowards if they deny him the track, LoL.
I think a track official already confirmed that Tesla does not have a reservation.
Considering that the Taycan that ran the ring was an all options, $200k vehicle, including four-wheel steering, it's going to be really tough to come even close.
7:42 is a very good time. Still ... it's not unbeatable, BMW's best M5 time is 7:39. A couple of top end AMG Mercedes have run it in 7:25. So a sedan can do better.
It's going to be fun. Hope they have a good driver. Sabine! What are you doing these days?
"I think a track official already confirmed that Tesla does not have a reservation"
Feels like that could be remedied.
Das ist not possible?
Current gen M5 competition (pretty quick car) time is 7:35. Last gen (F10) which wasn’t such a great car was 7:55. I’m hoping the S can match that.
Best for any sedan (not just EVs) is 7:32 (Giulia). That would be the one to break.
Telling that Porsche won’t go on a track tesla has been to. Game, set, match.
I'd bet the dangling "GF4 in Germany" big fat carrot will help the Germans sharpen their minds and ensure that they somehow find a slot in the 'ring for Tesla.
Anyone who thinks that Tesla's model S special they race isn't loaded to the gunwales with SuperCaps instead of regular batteries, eliminating the fade issue.
After all, they probably only need 1 lap - no out lap needed, and who cares if the car is limited on the in lap?
Musk didn't say it was a stock Model S. Just said it was a Model S. There's one guy on youtube that completely stripped his $150,000 Model S just so it would do the 1/4 mile faster. Lighter car would be faster around corners too. He didn't say he wasn't going to put racing slicks on it either. Who knows. Straight up, a stock Model S, shouldn't go faster that the Taycan around there. If it does, then something's up. If it really is with a stock Model S, then yes, Porsche would be quite embarrassed. Quite a big "IF". Porsche builds track cars, that's what they do. The Taycan should be faster.
What a series of rationalization, speculation and clownishness.
1. Tesla can change the cooling SoFtWaRe.
2. Removing the seats doesn’t change if the car is stock.
3. The Taycan isn’t stock, so why would Tesla even consider that in their lap?
4. The P100D is already lighter, quicker and faster than the Porsche. Why wouldn’t it win.
2015P90DI: I'm pretty sure all the sub-7:30 lap times for the Nürburgring are with non-stock vehicles. I believe one is expected to bring a race prepped car for doing high speed runs. But I wouldn't be surprised if Elon Musk wanted to set a lap record with a bone stock Tesla car, just to make a point and again give notice to the purveyors of ICE cars.
"The ICE age is ending."
95dawg advised, "As always, amusing to watch the angst of the Tesla haters as they get confused and freak out over Tesla’s mission succeeding."
Yes. Truly amusing. They are all just so... CERTAIN that the FUD, vitriol, and HaterAde they spew has merit. Poor fools.
"Human sacrifice, dogs & cats living together... Mass hysteria!" -- Bill Murray as Peter Venkman, 'Ghostbusters'
I typically use this site for Nürburgring lap times...
Top 100 Nürburgring Lap Timeshttps://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/
There are 21 listings for Porsche. None for the Taycan. Maybe they need to update the list?
_5 ___ 6:57.00 ___ Porsche 918 Spyder
12 ___ 7:12.70 ___ Porsche 911 GT3
16 ___ 7:18.00 ___ Porsche 911 GT2 RS
32 ___ 7:27.00 ___ Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0
36 ___ 7:28.71 ___ Porsche Carrera GT
41 ___ 7:32.00 ___ Porsche 911 Turbo S
The BMW M4 GTS, BMW M3 GTS, and Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio are among few direct competitors to Tesla Model 3 shown.
33 ___ 7:27.88 ___ BMW M4 GTS
40 ___ 7:32.00 ___ Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
82 ___ 7:48.00 ___ BMW M3 GTS
85 ___ 7:50.00 ___ BMW M3 CSL
American manufacturer entries include...
_7 ___ 7:01.30 ___ Viper ACR-Extreme
11 ___ 7:12.13 ___ Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR
15 ___ 7:16.00 ___ Camaro ZL1 1LE
19 ___ 7:19.63 ___ Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
21 ___ 7.22.10 ___ Dodge Viper ACR
22 ___ 7:22.68 ___ Chevrolet Corvette Z06
37 ___ 7:29.60 ___ Chevy Camaro ZL1
50 ___ 7:37.47 ___ Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
61 ___ 7:41.27 ___ Chevrolet Camaro ZL-1
Well, they're going all the way to Germany anyway... So why not beat EVERY posted Porsche Nürburgring lap time with the Model S while there? Not just the 'claimed' 7:42 with the Taycan.
Then, as a final exclamation point, wipe off every BMW time with the Model 3 Performance and by at least a fifteen second margin.
Tesla can release limited edition Nürburgring versions of the cars in time for Christmas for an extra $30,000 a piece and still cost less than Porche's cars. Such is the glory of competition. Too bad Porsche execs don't understand the magnitude to which someone like Elon Musk would venture in his endeavor to give a hardcore smackdown to ICE.
I find this confusing. The Model S has never been touted as a road course car. It's perfect for drag, but it has never been in the hunt for top lap times at normal length tracks like Laguna Seca. Why is it all of a sudden going to do well on one of the longest tracks of them all? It would be cool if they've made enough changes for it to be competitive there, but this seems like a knee-jerk reaction. Maybe I'm just missing something?
one.more.again: Do a YouTube search for the terms 'Elon Musk iteration first principles competition'. Watch about a half dozen conferences and interviews where he discusses those terms. Then hopefully you will no longer feel confused, and realize this is a planned and long hoped for happenstance, not at all a 'knee jerk reaction'.
"Our cars have to be... better than everyone else's... Because if they are 'just the same' as ordinary cars or only 'a little bit better', no one has any reason to buy them." -- Elon Musk
I get the concept, but the Model S was not built for the track, at least not one with corners anyway. The Model 3 Performance has dominated the Model S on road courses since it was released. The new Roadster is in a similar price range as the Porsche, and should easily exceed it in performance. What I don't get is why he wants to put the S up against the Porsche on the track. Just seems weird.
@one.more.again - because the S is what everyone In the press is comparing the Taycan with.
Moreover S sales have been flat since the 3 came out since it looks overpriced compared with the 3, with little differentiation. A competitive track run in the S would let Tesla say look we are actually underpriced compared with the competition and actually boost S sales.
Also as red said above, it’s been coming for some time. When the track mode was released on the 3, he promised the S owners that they will get it on the S too. Also that the S will get the higher top speed (at the time it was lower then the 3P), and it did with the raven improvements.