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Neil deGrasse Tyson and Ford CEO challenge validity of Cybertruck vs F-150 pull test

Neil deGrasse Tyson and Ford CEO challenge validity of Cybertruck vs F-150 pull test

As explained here, Tesla's Cybertruck pull test is not an apples to apples comparison. Rather it's a marketing stunt with little application to the real world just like 0-60 times. Ford wants a Cybertruck to do a real world test: https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/25/ford-vp-challenges-tesla-to-a-fair-f-1...

andy.connor.e | November 25, 2019

I also noticed that the ford truck was not in 4WD. Dumb that they even showed this video IMO.

andy.connor.e | November 25, 2019

"This contest is more about the Physics of Friction than Engine Power." - Neil

This is correct. The Tesla has an even weight distribution on its tires and the truck is mostly at the front. In RWD it doesnt stand a chance. Really Elon?

TeslaTap.com | November 25, 2019

Tesla just made a simple statement that the friction they used was more than the F150 that they had on hand. It seems fair to me. Perhaps a different configuration would have a different outcome, but perhaps not. It was a lot fairer than the totally fake comparison Top Gear did between the Taycan and the Model S.

We don't know the weights of each vehicle, but I'd guess the Cybertruck significantly outweighs the F150. In addition, those 35" tires should grip a lot better than the small F150 tires. My bet is the F150 AWD would lose as well.

Just on towing numbers alone, the Cybertruck should out pull the F150 AWD. The max F150 (2019) towing on the highest level version is 13,200 lbs, vs the Cybertruck at 14,000 lbs. Most F150 models have much lower tow ratings.

TeslaTap.com | November 25, 2019

Ford has about 100 or so configurations (different engines, cab sizes, etc.). Only one can handle 13,200 lbs of towing. Here's the entire chart: https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resource...

andy.connor.e | November 25, 2019

Model S literally said 2.5s 0-60 on their website, but Top Gear used old data.

carlk | November 25, 2019

"This contest is more about the Physics of Friction than Engine Power." - Neil

Please note he said "more" not "all".

jimglas | November 25, 2019

for the record
I like the physics of friction

andy.connor.e | November 25, 2019

Friction is a girls best friend didnt you know? Cybertruck is perfect for her.

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

It was obviously bogus but I didn't want to say anything. Small tires, RWD, and they let the Tesla start first. No way the Ford could win. This was a fanboy stunt, preaching to the choir.

Constant dishonesty from our fearless CEO is really getting to me.

jimglas | November 25, 2019

"Constant dishonesty from our fearless CEO is really getting to me"
then go somewhere else
nobody is forcing you to be here
go to the toucan website
they will be happy to see you

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

@jimglas, nonsense. I own a car, and I own stock. I’m all in. That does not mean I shouldn’t want the CEO to be honest or I shouldn’t want the cars to improve. Actually it’s the opposite. I want things to be better *because* I’m all in.

I’ve also always been a huge fan and user of Apple products. Steve Jobs was amazing; an innovative business genius. He was a big talker about his products and the future. But he never lied or skated around the truth. Such behavior is possible while still being successful.

TeslaTap.com | November 25, 2019

So what was dishonest about it? The test was totally valid, They used an F150. Just because they didn't use the F150 variant you want (there are about 100 variations), doesn't make it dishonest.

BadgerErickson | November 25, 2019

Truck to truck pull; apples to apples when Ford makes an EV F-truck, with nationwide supported infrastructure to charge it. Until then, go back to the Mexico and China production factories please.

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

Similar price/load class, similar size and type of tires, AWD, and have them start together. Anything else is obviously dishonest.

SamO | November 25, 2019

The stink of desperation wafts from the Porsche trolls.

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

You think honesty makes a person a troll? Weird world, the Tesla fanboy alternate universe.

Darthamerica | November 25, 2019

@Nuke this is why some of them get so duped and jump head first into the marketing hype. This is why many of them believe their cars are faster than Vettes and Porsche’s. Meanwhile people that actually understand what’s going on discuss... Nothing wrong with Tesla’s unique marketing strategy, it obviously works, but that doesn’t mean some of us can’t see through the smoke and mirrors.

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

I understand some smoke and mirrors. It’s the outright lies that bother me.

SamO | November 25, 2019

Which lie was that king troll?

Be specific. And make sure there are quotation marks.

Lol.

nothotpocket | November 25, 2019

It's a waste of Neil's big brain for him to be finding out that advertising is a lie

Darthamerica | November 25, 2019

It’s not hard if you’re trained in physics, more like immediately obvious.

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

@SamO
"Cybertruck is faster than a Porsche 911."
"Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured."
"All Tesla Supercharger stations in regions affected by California power outages will have Tesla Powerpacks within next few weeks. Just waiting on permits."
"Just deleted my Twitter account." (That was a tweet. From his Twitter account.)
“I feel very confident predicting autonomous robotaxis for Tesla next year.”

Darthamerica | November 25, 2019

Yeah I wasn’t pleased by the jump from AP1 to HW2+. When I bought my car Tesla said it would drive itself, park itself. It was marketed/sold as actually being capable of FSD. I should have known better but I wanted to experience it. It is better than any other TACC, but it isn’t what we were promised. And I suspect HW3.0 owners will experience the same reality. The tech just isn’t there yet, both HW and SW! Tesla is in a very tough spot to compel people to buy its cars with transformational features but not over promise.

BadgerErickson | November 25, 2019

@ nuke and @ Darth ; the CT pulls out the slack in the pull chain/cable-that was no "head start". W/o removing the slack first the rear end WOULD be removed from the F-truck. "Small tires"? You mean the stock OEM tires it comes with? You accuse Tesla of smoke, mirrors, and dishonesty, and lies? Sounds like you have a class-action fraud case going, who is your legal representative in the case? Otherwise, shut your pie hole so the future doesn't sneak up on you from behind and run you over.

mrche | November 25, 2019

ICE vehicles can't start spinning the wheels until the gas mixes with oxygen, pistons cranks, power delivered to the wheels, etc... There an electric vehicle will start moving before any ICE vehicle gets a chance to get rolling. The ICE vehicle would need a head start to make it a fair fight...

nukequazar | November 25, 2019

@mrche, not sure if you’ve heard of it but there’s this amazing invention called a clutch that allows a motor to get up to speed before engaging with the transmission. When done well, it allows for very quick transfer of energy to the drive wheels.

While it’s true that electric motors initiate torque more rapidly, as long as the two vehicles start at the same time, then it would be a fair fight.

Darthamerica | November 25, 2019

Then there's the weight distribution towards the front of an empty 2WD pickup... It's not a comparison of anything except basic physics. I don't get why people keep insisting on these scripted meaningless EV vs ICEV comparisons. Neither of these trucks should be judged on one isolated scenario. Instead consider the various customer use cases and see which vehicle is better under what circumstances. For everyone else who plans to do pull contest against 2WD F-150s then get a Cybertruck!

Mark K | November 25, 2019

Posts by Darth + Nuke are in proportion to how scary the news is from Tesla.

Wherever they go camp to post, that’s where their trouble is. It reads like a Geiger-counter.

CyberTruck is absolutely disruptive to Ford and GM’s last stronghold, and they are freaking out right now.

40K will soon buy a 6 passenger, 100cf, stainless steel, terrestrial AI robot spaceship.

Of course we’re all buying it. It’s the deal of the century.

So how does Porsche even matter?

How the hell will they get 200K for a car that can’t even keep up? This velocity of innovation is overwhelming them.

VAG’s Porsche trolls are here because disruption is happening so fast, VAG’s only answer is try to slow it down.

That is being on the wrong side of history Porsche. It is a sure-loser bet.

Instead of paying these numbskull trolls, get with the future, Porsche.

Figure out how to help Tesla and yourselves to make it happen.

Instead of fighting it, join in making a far better future for all of us.

Btw - Neil D-T is a serial Elon detractor. Whether for envy, or some other motivation, he scoffs at SpaceX, when you’d think he’d be delighted that StarShip is happening.

No matter the naysayers, our gleaming stainless steel future is unfolding before our eyes.

Our tomorrow, in our lives right now, has become exciting again.

Darthamerica | November 26, 2019

...and then reality shows back up and pushes “soon” our a few more years as it always does. Kind of strange that we always end up right don’t you think Mark? Or maybe we aren’t geniuses but we just somehow notice that Tesla tends to be overly optimistic?

jimglas | November 26, 2019

the CT must have fossil fuel scared
Their trolls are spinning frantically here

Ehninger1212 | November 26, 2019

I didn't sit and read through all these comments.. but i partially think Tesla was baiting Ford. Even if they weren't, Ford took it. Now i don't see how they can win. Would love to see ford show up with there EV truck prototype!

SamO | November 26, 2019

Ford flees from challenge.

Bankruptcy cannot come soon enough for these coward.

"Ford [IS] backtracking from its tug-of-war rematch challenge against Tesla’s recently-revealed Cybertruck. The veteran American automaker’s update came after Elon Musk responded positively to Ford’s rematch suggestion, with the CEO stating that a battle between the Cybertruck and the Ford F-150 could be held as early as next week.

Ford’s challenge towards Tesla was expressed by Ford X VP Sundeep Madra, who asked Elon Musk on Twitter if the Silicon Valley-based electric car maker could send its all-electric pickup over so that a true “apples to apples” comparison could be made between the two heavy-duty vehicles. Musk promptly called Madra’s bluff, stating that the veteran carmaker should “bring it on.”

“A senior Ford spokesperson told InsideEVs.com that Madra’s tweet ‘was tongue-in-cheek’ and meant to point out the absurdity of Tesla’s tow video.”

HAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Run, Ford. Run while you still can. You have zero chance of prevailing.

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

Are you kidding me? They backed out? What a bunch of pussies are u seriously kidding me. Come on. You just issued a formal insult to your own 100+ year old automobile manufacturing company.

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

“A senior Ford spokesperson told InsideEVs.com that Madra’s tweet ‘was tongue-in-cheek’ and meant to point out the absurdity of Tesla’s tow video.”

The only thing thats absurd is to comment on its absurdity and then to back away from a challenge that you initiated from your comment on its "absurdity". Talk about absurdity????

SamO | November 26, 2019

Yup. Ford is Forked. Talk about 0.0% chance of surivial in a new environment of iteration and change.

Tesla has innovation.

Ford has a reputation for bullshit, only reinforced by shooting their mouth off and backing away from a fight.

Good thing they invested in Rivian. At least someone is trying.

After Ford goes through reorganization, perhaps there will be something of value, but I have my doubts.

TabascoGuy | November 26, 2019

Come on people, Ford, GM, Dodge, etc. has never, ever, tipped the scales in their favor in any of their marketing campaigns.

Oh please.

PS, Porsche hasn't either.

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

Ford publicly humiliated themselves, but at least they avoided a bigger humiliation by losing a tug of war battle twice when they were the ones who challenged a rematch. So i guess they saved themselves from that.

Darthamerica | November 26, 2019

It's not backing out, it's saying the test is a silly stunt which it is. This is also why Tyson weighed in. It doesn't prove anything except for friction. To be relevant you'd have to equal out the friction forces which would require both trucks to have non OEM mods and equivalent payloads. It's just like the 0-60 foolishness. Instead of just saying Cybertruck, which I am on the list to get, has a 2.9s 0-60, they portray it as faster than a Porsche. Not only is that nonsense. How can it be so when the only known example of the vehicle is a dual motor vehicle. Is Tesla comparing a hypothetical tri-motor truck to real cars? Is 2.9s and 500+ miles real or is it another one of Tesla's asperational goals based on what they think is possible by 2022? We have to ask these questions because of Tesla's history of over promising on specs and contriving scenarios targeted for marketing rather than real world use cases.

jimglas | November 26, 2019

ford got owned
As did porsche

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

@Darth

How could the truck accelerate faster than the porsche if it was not the tri-motor version?

Darthamerica | November 26, 2019

@Andy it didn't. That's why we are calling it BS.

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

Haha ok i mean if we are going to claim that the video they showed is fake then enjoy.

Darthamerica | November 26, 2019

They showed a video of part of the vehicles accelerating. What do you think happens if they don't cut it short?

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

As the porsche continues to increase its engine RPMs, it would overtake the truck at some point. Half the reason electric vehicles have faster acceleration than gasoline engine vehicles is because the EV gets 100% torque at 0rpm.

How is the video fake?

jimglas | November 26, 2019

maybe they can get the Taycan to race the truck
That might be a fair fight

BadgerErickson | November 26, 2019

I think the DM CT with appropriate tire choice would trounce the Porsche, suspension dropped into it's lowest position.

Yes, all of the Big 3, along with their Oil & Gas cronies are SHAKING in THEIR BOOTS!! Know why? They ONLY answer to shareholders, and NOT me and you....until now. However, they are ALL caught playing catch up for sourcing the new unibody builds and battery systems. General Motors; STILL has NOT fixed the electrical gremlins with it's trucks' DRLs, always burning out 1 bulb, infinitely. Their heated windshield washer fluid bottle is STILL catching on fire, 10 years after THAT fiasco began blazing.

Here where I live we have a shopping mall that is mostly vacant of stores, and the Big 3 factories are filling it's parking lots with overflow from our town's dealerships. Exxon/Mobil, BP, and Shell already have HUGE gluts of petroleum products, wasting away in tanks and tankers. They ARE panicking. As WE wait to buy our CTs, we figure out HOW to live w/o the Big 3 and Japan, and we save our resources for this one thing. WE are VOTING with our MONEY way before election day, and they don't like it, and it scares the manure out of them.

Yes, NDT is a very professional "merchant of doubt" when it comes to all things Musk. His owners have told him to be that way, he has no choice if he wants to get paid by HBO/CBS/NBC. Money. Greed. ICE Cars and Gas. WE are changing the market that is what, 120 years of the same pollutions!?!?!!

Darthamerica | November 26, 2019

Andy, what happens if the Porsche revs the engine prior to starting and pops the clutch? Every hear of launch control? And if the Porsche catches and passes the Truck which it would, which vehicle has more acceleration? That's a simple physics question. You see, Tesla set up an unrealistic scenario to measure a slice of acceleration that makes it seem better. That is disengenous!

nukequazar | November 26, 2019

I love the concept of Tesla, and where it's pushing the industry, but I'm pretty sick and tired of the lies and immature BS marketing. And I'm sad that the fanboys eat it all up, hook, line, and sinker.

andy.connor.e | November 26, 2019

"That is disengenous!"

Its disingenuous to use old (not current) 0-60 times for the Model S to compare to the Taycan, and claim the Taycan is faster.

Darthamerica | November 26, 2019

Andy, strawman. I didn't dispute that. But I guess it's ok when Tesla does it?

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