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2nd row middle seat "cargo mode"

2nd row middle seat "cargo mode"

Hey folks,
Today I found myself without my trailer hitch & bike rack and had to load a bike into the X. I'd never actually done this. So I moved all the seats full forward and was surprised...the middle seat on the middle row really doesn't move much. The outboard seats both go way forward and lean up. The middle seat just moves forward a couple inches and that's it. Is it supposed to move further than that? Or is that it? Generally I've felt good about cargo capacity, but I admit that I also assumed the middle seat would move at least close to as far forward as the side ones.

Normal?

raging.dragonfly | May 15, 2016

@speyerj, the bit of noise I have heard indicates this is current "normal", but rumors are that a SW fix might change that...

dortor | May 15, 2016

Yeah this is great SUV -carlk told me so.

speyerj | May 17, 2016

SC followed up and says that the middle seat only moves that far. At least per them, this is mechanical and not SW limited. If so, I definitely agree that it's a big disappointment. Even if the side seats move all the way forward, if the middle seat remains fixed, it doesn't actually buy you much extra cargo space... :-/

That would mean that "cargo" mode buys you about 1" of extra cargo space. What's the point of a fixed middle seat? You can't ACCESS the middle seat with the lateral seats in "cargo mode".

sp_tesla | May 17, 2016

"Normal?"

Only for CEO genius engineer & his poppets who so far can't comprehend user friendly option of needing to load a bike into the X.

socalsam | May 17, 2016

Wait.....the middle seat is restricted mechanically??? Software wont make it go forward at all eventually?? So glad I got a 6 seater.

sp_tesla | May 17, 2016

"socalsam | May 17, 2016
Wait.....the middle seat is restricted mechanically??? Software wont make it go forward at all eventually?? So glad I got a 6 seater."

+ ability to hopefully see more clearly through rear view mirror.

socalsam | May 17, 2016

I know there was a lot of bitching about folding 2nd row seats- but I never realized that the middle seat would never move. I thought it would move forward like the side seats.

man- what the hell were they thinking?

sp_tesla | May 17, 2016

"socalsam | May 17, 2016
man- what the hell were they thinking?"

Probably that it's not needed option to enter 3rd row seats.

speyerj | May 17, 2016

@socalsam
I'm really hoping that the SC is wrong. If they're right, and the middle seat never moves further than it's current 1-2" forward slide, it's a huge limitation on the cargo area. As I mentioned, even if you move the outboard seats full forward, it's rare that you'd be loading an object that needs the length of that shift but that is narrow enough to fit into a 1 seat wide gap without ramming into the middle seat.

socalsam | May 17, 2016

I know there has been a ton of discussion whether th seats fold or not and to me folding seats aren't critical. I can understand how they are for some.

Regardless while I knew the seats didn't fold, I assumed this whole time that all 3 seats alt least moved all the way up. If th middle seat is in fact completely fixed- this is an epic fail of epic proportions. And yes I said epic twice.

speyerj | May 17, 2016

@socalsam
Agreed. I didn't really minded the lack of folding seats since I assumed that the forward slide would be sufficient. But maybe there is essentially no useful forward slide.

Again, I'm hoping that the SC is wrong and that cargo mode eventually implements. But right now, nope.

georgehawley.fl.us | May 17, 2016

I think I had better start looking for my hacksaw.:-))

Drberman | May 17, 2016

Following

Remnant | May 17, 2016

@ socalsam (May 17, 2016)

<< So glad I got a 6 seater. >>

With this additional restriction, 6-seats seems to be the most reasonable configuration.

elguapo | May 17, 2016

I am not surprised. The middle seat doesn't tilt the way the outer seats do - you can see this whenever it moves. It will tilt a bit if you adjust it, but otherwise it does not.

It doesn't matter to me as I never thought I would be able to haul anything. I use it for a people mover.

Redmiata98 | May 17, 2016

I thought the center seat moved forward when either sideboard seat did. I will have to look closer the next time I move either.

socalsam | May 17, 2016

Red Miata- please confirm. If th center seat is fixed- no Bueno.

Ivan | May 17, 2016

For those that want to know if a road bike fits in the X with a 6 seat configuration.
I have a S-Works Roubaix size 58.
With the rear seats down & the 2 middle seats all the way forward my bicycle fits in even without removing the front wheel.
I was extremely happy to know it did that.

lilbean | May 17, 2016

That's great Ivan. How did you secure the bike? Thank you.

socalsam | May 17, 2016

@Ivan- yes- with the 6 seat configuration I can see this as no issue. Its the 7 seat that Im curious about.

dortor | May 17, 2016

The middle seat moves some but not a lot - yes the X 7 seater is an epic fail as an SUV.

Triggerplz | May 17, 2016

Your Neighbor cooked dinner again.. He's gonna be able to get a $7500 tax credit and an extra dependent credit :)

speyerj | May 18, 2016

@Redmiata98

The middle seat moves, but it only moves about 1.5" whereas the outboard seats move substantially.

sra | May 18, 2016

I am surprised that the middle seat do not move forward like the two other seats. This has not been mentioned before. If I had been aware of this before I ordered, the 6- seat versin would have been my obvious opteion instead of the 7 seater I ordered.
No folding flat second row was close to canseling in my case. So only 1-2" movement of middle seat is a great disapointment.

speyerj | May 18, 2016

A foot? Not even close.

IZSMM | May 18, 2016

Aw. So sad.

Redmiata98 | May 18, 2016

You're right the center seat only moves forward about an inch or two. I cannot find where I read about a planned OTA uppdate called cargo mode. I thought that the cargo mode would allow the center seat to independently move another 6 inches or so forward and it was to then tilt forward. Maybe this is just wishful thinking on my part but it would be nice to have! Don't you agree?

dortor | May 18, 2016

the center seat can not more forward much more - due to the center console between the front two seat - it protrudes in to the back and provides ventilation and cup holders to the 2nd row.

the middle seat is constrained by physics from moving much more than a few inches - which makes the lack of 2nd row folding seats in the 7 passenger configuration even more of a hugh mess up for a fully functional SUV which needs to haul cargo and people…

the X is a wonderful car and a mediocre SUV.

Gary an Rachel | May 18, 2016

I think we were all looking at the early videos of the second row seats. It always showed the middle seats moving just a little bit to help make room for the third row seats. The seats on the ends went forward and tilted and the middle seat just went along for the ride a little bit. Sorry this seemed to get past your observation. If you ask the folks who picked 6 seats I'll bet they saw this feature. Not sure why so much attention is being pointed out at this time. For what reason? A year ago the videos showed this clearly. Is this just a weak attemp to bash the X again. Why? It's a great car.

speyerj | May 18, 2016

@G&R
No, it's not a "weak attempt to bash the X." It's a genuinely surprised observation from someone who actually bought an X. What video were you watching a year ago when the X was only unveiled 7 months ago? But on the subject of the X unveiling...

Wait one dang minute...I just rewatched the X reveal video. At 15:50 into the video Elan hops into the 3rd row and the middle seat moves forward the same distance as the left outboard! So Gary & Rachel allow me to rephrase...I DID watch the dang video and it's different than what our cars are ACTUALLY DOING.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUavpHXPB8

So dangit...are the SC people really clueless? Will this functionality show up at some point? Was there a mechanical change made after the reveal that limits the middle seat?

Insert some swearing here.

elguapo | May 18, 2016

@Red The original owner's manual had a"Cargo Mode" explanation. The current version of the OM does not mention it at all.

Gary an Rachel | May 18, 2016

Spey, I can read that your really upset over this. And like you say I am an actual owner of a model x p90dl. You and I had to go and learn and see the car the best we could in that we had to put down money long before we could get a ride in one. But to ask me where I saw a car over a year ago is a bit of an attack. Here is a video that is more than 4 years ago, sadly it will not show you your concerns https://youtu.be/KfMHU9aAqec I also shot video of the model X at the showroom in San Jose in March 2012. I spent 1 1/2 looking it over. So to drill down to witch video I watched and when that showed how these seats moved might take more work finding than what's it's worth here, but it was then that my wife and I said that if they could sell that car without that middle seat it would be perfect. So after waiting 4 years and saving money since 2008 to get a tesla we now are driving and fully enjoying this car. We had 16 + hours in the Model S and it was not the car for us so we waited and watched any video we could find. Sorry you bought your car and found a few surprises that you hadn't expected. Good luck.

Dazureus | May 19, 2016

Just took a look at my P90D. Using the current middle seat buttons, the seat doesn't move forward much, but it's definitely not a mechanical limitation. There will probably be a software update in the future that will allow the center seat to move as far forward as the outboard seats, almost touching the console.

speyerj | May 19, 2016

From my SC when asking about the middle seat in the September reveal video...parenthesis mine.

"Thank you for your email. The Model X shown in the video (upon which all early orders were based) is equipped with a prototype seat and not a production seat. Unfortunately, the production seats do not allow the middle seat to move forward as much as the outboard seats."

lilbean | May 19, 2016

@speyerj: Wow. Well, what can I expect when I pay for a car I've never seen or touched before. I actually expected a door that opened and closed properly too. :(

speyerj | May 19, 2016

To be clear, this is the September reveal video and demo after which deliveries were supposedly starting and orders began after. I think it was reasonable to assume that what was shown was the actual car.

speyerj | May 19, 2016

And I might add, Tesla is still showing that video on their site, clearly showing a 2nd row doing things that according to my SC, the production seats cannot do. That's not a bug. That's false advertising.

Gary an Rachel | May 19, 2016

I do hope a software update can help in this.
ericechu, your report is encouraging that this is not a mechanical limitation. It was reported that new things or updates are coming soon for the MX. Maybe within 30 days. Let's hope this issue about cargo mode for middle seat is one of them for a few good reasons. Good luck speyerj on this. And are you saying you were at the reveal last September? We were standing about ten rows back for that and it was a bit hard to see everything on the stage, but they did have MX rides for all and it was our first time seeing and riding in a working car. Our ride was in the 6 seater and did not get to see the 7 seat operations. I can report that they had a nice center console where that middle seat would be and later found that the center console was not being offered. That would have been nice, maybe after market will have something.

speyerj | May 19, 2016

@G&R
Alas, no we weren't at the reveal. But the reveal video that is still up on the Model X splash page has a crystal clear view of the middle seat moving in tandem with the outboard seat all the way forward at the 15:30 mark. If that car was the only one at the event capable of performing that feat, how would anyone placing an order be expected to make that assumption? If the demo cars that folks got to ride in (or the Founders cars that were delivered there) couldn't do what the Reveal car could do, that's certainly not a matter of much public record to be used in the decision process.

That reveal video is sitting front and center on the Model X ordering page as we speak. It's showing a functionality that any reasonable buyer would assume was present in the car they are ordering.

Gary an Rachel | May 19, 2016

speyerj, just a possable idea here and not based on seeing a 7 seater. When I move my second row seats a few things will cause them to move differently. If my front seats are all the way forward or all the way back it will effect the travel on those 2nd row seats. I have also knoticed if my third row seats are up or down that this too will effect the travel on 2nd row seats. So I would ask if your seats and especially the middle seat gets more travel in one of those configurations. We know this is true with FWD and if no cars or objects are near verses close objects the doors will have different range of movment.

speyerj | May 19, 2016

Good suggestions. I tried several different combinations with the 3rd row, trunk and doors to see it it would change the middle seat slide. No dice. But it was worth trying!

speyerj | May 19, 2016

"I totally understand your frustration. I wish I could tell you more information than what Service told you. It was a prototype in the video. However, you have a great option for your dilemma. You ordered the tow package"

Oh well whew. Just need to make sure I always have my bike rack in the car and ready to go. Problem solved.

bak_phy | May 20, 2016

If the 3rd row seats are folded and the second row is pushed forward, entering from the back is there a few feet of flat cargo area where the 3rd row seat were and then a "hole" where there the 2nd row seats were? If so it seems like kind of a strange space. Is there less useful space than in my S with the back seats down?

elguapo | May 20, 2016

@bak_phy Yes, there's a hole (especially in 6 seat version) and there's a drop off where 2nd row seats would be.

The S has more truly flat depth. Even in a 6 seat X, there's a drop off where third row folds and middle space between seats.

dortor | May 20, 2016

the S is a more functional SUV than the X…the S can carry many many pieces of cargo that simply will not fit an X…

that being said the X is a wonderful car and if cargo flexibility is not your criteria for an SUV then the X is a fine automobile (sans bugs with doors and over designed FWDs)

however expectations as to what it means to be an SUV - some parties feel the X is just fine, and others feel the X has room for improvement for it to be truly an SUV…opinions differ

however it is a fact that the X can not necessary carry longer items that will fit in most other cars and SUV's.

speyerj | May 20, 2016

If you have the full 7 seat version, when you put down the 3rd row and slide the 2nd row all the way forward you end up with a flat bed area where the 3rd row is folded down, and then you have a drop off that "falls behind" the two outboard 2nd row seats. The drop off behind the 2nd row seat is very small because the 2nd row seat barely moves at all.

speyerj | May 20, 2016

p.s. To directly answer the question...no the S has a larger flatbed and overall hauling capacity with the seats folded down compared to the X.

elguapo | May 20, 2016

@speyerj To clarify, you mean the middle seat in second row travels very little, right? Outside side seats move forward quite a bit.

speyerj | May 20, 2016

Yes. The 2nd row middle seat only has about 2" or so of forward-back movement and very little recline. It does not tip forward at all like the outboard seats.

So the end result of moving forward the outboard seats is that you have the two outboard seats far forward and leaned up against the front row and a middle 2nd row seat sort of sticking up in between. So the only "larger" object you could fit by using this configuration would be one that is narrow enough to fit into the gap of the outboard seats. The middle seat blocks anything larger.

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