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Kickstarter to offer adapter to allow other EV's to use Tesla AC charging equipment

Kickstarter to offer adapter to allow other EV's to use Tesla AC charging equipment

A company named Quick Charge Power LLC is planning a kickstarter campaign to produce the JDapter(tm) adapter that would allow non-Tesla EV's (with J1772, Level 2, or Type 1 charge inlet) to use Tesla Destination Chargers, the Tesla UMC, Tesla Mobile Connector, Tesla HPWC and Tesla Wall Connector.

Frank99 | October 6, 2016

Great idea. I really wish we could put 10 good engineers in a room, give representatives from each of the major charging infrastructure camps 10 minutes to present the PROs of their scheme, then shoo them all out of the room and let the engineers decide. Having a half dozen different standards just sucks.

Red Sage ca us | October 6, 2016

Frank99: I thought that was what SAE was supposed to be, but for some reason they chose to go with the Frankenplug.

AEdennis | October 6, 2016

@Red Sage ca us... For DC Fast Charging, SAE and Frankenplug is the same thing. CHAdeMO is the other standard.

http://insideevs.com/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-...

Frank99 | October 6, 2016

My favorite comment on standards:
https://xkcd.com/927/

james | October 7, 2016

What's particularly weird about this thing is the way it varies over the world, despite car companies being global entities. You'd think it would all be standardised.

In the EU, Teslas have a Type 2 socket and any EV with a type 2 can use Tesla chargers (except the superchargers).

milesbb | October 7, 2016

HPWC can be supplied by 208, 240, or 277 volts. J1772 standard limits voltage to 240 volts. Using this adapter to Plug a J1772 car into a HPWC could damage non Tesla car chargers when the HPWC is supplied from a 277 volt source. This is not a problem with Tesla because all Tesla chargers are designed to handle the 277 volts. Areas that folks could get into trouble are around larger facilities that will likely use 277/480 distribution, apartment complexes, hotels, shopping centers etc. Folks that want to share their HPWC should label the HPWC's supply voltage.

Should be interesting to see if Tesla objects to the use of these adapters at destination charge spots. Tesla gave these away for free and these destination charge spots will now be encouraging other EV's to be used. Or Tesla could object to the selling of these adapter for safety reasons. We will see if Musk's main goal is still to encourage all EV usage or if winning the competition between EV's is now the goal. I believe Tesla subsidizes the price of HPWC and UMC's as well. They seem to be priced very competitively when compared to J1776 equivalent equipment.

dansplans | October 8, 2016

I saw a youtube video of a BMW i3 using a Tesla destination charger, without any adapter.

milesbb | October 8, 2016

@dansplans
I assume you are watching the youtube video with the title BMW I3 Charging on Tesla HPWC
this video clearly shows an Orange adaptor about 30 inches long. If you watch the video the guy talks about his adaptor. This guy on the video is proving his adaptor works fine for charging his I3.

kaffine | October 8, 2016

@milesbb Where are you seeing that the HPWC can use 277V? Even with the 240V 3 phase delta they say to use the center tapped transformer which limits the voltage to 120V above ground.

Red Sage ca us | October 9, 2016

AEdennis: Frank99 wrote, "I really wish we could put 10 good engineers in a room..." I wrote, "I thought that was what SAE was supposed to be..." Instead of a nice, neat, convenient, handy standard such as the one Tesla Motors proposed, the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) chose the FRANKENPLUG design instead. That, thanks to input from "...representatives from each of the major charging infrastructure camps..." Once Elon and JB realized they couldn't convince them otherwise, they left and never went back. A lot of people are not aware that what they keep calling a 'proprietary' connector for Tesla was offered as a solution for all automobile manufacturers and was rejected out of hand in favor of a less capable system. I believe that was done on purpose, mainly because traditional automobile manufacturers didn't want to give any credence to Tesla Motors at all, but also because they didn't actually want to make charging convenient, fast, or easy for Consumers.

brando | October 9, 2016

Isn't there some "hand shaking" going on with chargers?
And does this involve some software?
Will a Tesla charger allow a non-tesla car?
Does Tesla collect data from the SuperCharges? (Perhaps they only collect data from the cars.)

Surely they will need to make some arrangement with Tesla (Tesla wants to expand SuperCharges)
So others could offer/arrange to add payment system to Tesla SuperCharger Network.
But you also have the issue of the to be charged car being able to handle Tesla SuperCharger DC.

And of course will auto makers void warranties if their customers use Tesla Chargers.
i.e. How does Tesla protect against liability when some one sues for SuperCharger damaging their car?

Well it is all rumor and speculation for now. I think we need much more information.

But it is good to see increased interest in EVs and charging. I think work place charging would be a much better place to put investments and of course destination chargers too.

Interesting times.

TeslaTap.com | October 9, 2016

@brando - The proposed adapter specifically does not support Superchargers. There is a handshake on all the different connections, including Tesla's HPWC, but the HPWC does not communicate with Tesla or authenticate a user.

Not sure of the concern such as warranties, the HPWC and other sources are all 240 VAC (in the USA). Any EV than can't handle 240 VAC, shouldn't be manufactured or sold. Tesla also doesn't pay for the power supplied at destination chargers. The actual owner can regulate usage via verbal/signage/locks as to who may or may not use their power on their property.

flight505 | October 9, 2016

I thought the supercharger connection has to recognize the car to turn on power.

Tesla would have to approve this either way.

leskchan | October 9, 2016

Why, other than a few Tesla car owners who happen to have Teals charging equipment at home and have other Ev cars too? The market is so small.

Tesla is the one using propriortory equipment so it is to adapt Tesla to accept standard equipment. Which is available already.

Red Sage ca us | October 9, 2016

leskchan: As I noted above, "A lot of people are not aware that what they keep calling a 'proprietary' connector for Tesla was offered as a solution for all automobile manufacturers and was rejected out of hand in favor of a less capable system."

kaffine | October 9, 2016

@leskchan

How about those that own other EV cars that want to use Tesla destination chargers? Can't say I have checked to see how many places have Tesla destination chargers but no other EV chargers.

milesbb | October 10, 2016

@kaffine

looks like I might be wrong. The Wall Connecter installation manual is clear that 240 is the rated nominal maximum voltage. This site however claims 277 is supported.

http://www.teslacentral.com/teslas-updated-wall-connector-charger-smarte...

I believe I have also seen it posted on this Forum as well. The OP's link also warns about using the adapter on a 277 HPWC. I think it is widely known that the Superchargers use the same charger in 480/277 service. Also the wall connector has a dip switch for Line to Neutral (greater than 240V). This would only be the case in 277 service in North America, all of the showed connections in the manual are 120 volts Line to Neutral as the nominal voltage. I suspect the dip switch changes the over voltage shutdowns setting in the HPWC. Seems to be some unanswered questions about the use of a HPWC on 277. Perhaps industrial/commercial users get a different installation manual that allows 277.

leskchan | October 10, 2016

@kaffine

Tesla destination charger is basically a privately owned Tesla Wall Connector operated by a business to attract customers to the business. As a business, why would I invest in Tesla Wall Connector instead of standard L2 system, where I can cater to all EV cars, including Tesla. There is marketing relationship between Tesla and businesses. Tesla gets to increased charging footprint. Business gets free advertising on Tesla charging maps, see Ayers Hotel. Also keep in mind that Tesla Superchargers and Destination Chargers are always intended for Tesla cars, hence lacking of mechanism for billing. This is just another case of Betamax vs. VHS. Better technology does not always win.

I am blessed with a supercharger station on my daily route, where I do 90% of charging. I use the mobile connector at home to top off for a trip or for emergency. When I go to my favorite restaurant to eat, I would use ChargePoint and the included J1772 adapter to charge. I paid $2 for 2 hours and have a nice parking space, about the same cost as valet parking.

I didn't want to invest $550 plus about $750 $1,000 to install the circuit for a HPWC. It's not that it is NOT superior charging system, it's just I don't know what other EV cars I might get in the near future. If I get a non-Tesla, I want to have a common charging system for both.

kaffine | October 10, 2016

@milesbb Thanks. I didn't notice the switch for voltages above 240V now I'm confused as they state 240V is the max. I did find a post where someone had installed it on a 277V circuit and was able to use it.

@leskchan I can see a business only installing Tesla HPWC especially if they got them for free or reduced cost from Tesla. Or a business owner not knowing anything about EV but has a very vocal customer that has a Tesla and keeps requesting a HWPC be installed. As it is the business that is paying for the electricity for the destination chargers I don't think they would care if a non-Tesla used it as long as the owner of the car was a customer.

Tesla might have issues with it if it becomes wide spread. However since Elon wants more EV on the road I don't see them trying to stop it. They may change the destination charger program reducing the discounts offered for installing them and just sell them for the same price as private owners pay.

brando | December 7, 2016

Quick thanks to @leskchan as his abuse of SuperCharger system no doubt helped get us to a new SuperCharger policy. But of course there has been a long history of abuse of the commons. Which is why Red and I aren't always so sure humans can can make it for a million years, let alone a billion. Multi-planet help? perhaps.

aaronw2 | December 7, 2016

I can see why Tesla may not want this. For example, last June I stayed at a place out in the middle of nowhere that has a Tesla destination charger. I spoke with the owners and while they make it available to all Tesla vehicles whether or not they stay there, Tesla paid for the permits and for the install so the owners ended up paying nothing. (BTW, this is the Virginia Creek Settlement near Bridgeport, CA along highway 395). I could see why Tesla might be upset if someone is plugging in their Bolt or some other non-Tesla vehicle using infrastructure that Tesla paid for. Many of those Tesla destination chargers are paid for by Tesla.

milesbb | December 14, 2016

@aaronw2,
Tesla subsidizes the destination chargers. I believe the HPWC is offered at a reduced cost as well to the homeowner. If this adapter becomes widely used I would expect to see Tesla's price of HPWC to change as well as the destination charger program.

President145 | March 4, 2017

Just what we need I'm already concerned about several 100k model 3 owners sharing the limited charging network. Now non- Tesla owners can use this network. Hardly seems right. We paid a lot fir the Model s, and x and there needs to be some benefit to high price paid.