Forums

P85D / P90D tire / wheel setup: Elon said staggered tires make a big difference?

P85D / P90D tire / wheel setup: Elon said staggered tires make a big difference?

Hi everyone,

After all the discussion in other threads about P85Ds being delivered sometimes with 245 rear and front tires and sometimes with 245 front and 265 rear (like the P85+, staggered wheels option), things had apparently settled down with the main consensus being : c'mon, it's all wheel drive, there is no wheel spin 0-30, so it's ok if yours got delivered with 245s all around.

Now in the latest announcement if you listen to Elon's answer to somebody asking about chassis and handling upgrades for the new ludicrous speed power boost, he clearly says that handling does not need any improvement on the P85D, as it already is great as it is, you just need to have the staggered wheels - 'IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE'

Why would they then ship their P85Ds (like mine) with 245s all around? Is Elon's comment more subjective than technical? Don't get me wrong, I think the car handles great, beyond expectations, but I was surprised to hear that. Any other opinions?

PleasantonS | 21/07/2015

My opinion...everyone who has staggered wheels will tell you they provide better handling and traction. Everyone who does not have them will tell you they do not provide better handling and traction. No different from the 19 vs 21 inch wheel discussion.

Ralph_G | 21/07/2015

I have 19's on my P85D and have driven with the 21's on many occassions. I agree that the 21's give a little better traction and a lot better cornering but the trade off to that is a much stiffer ride and a new set of tires every 15-20,000kms or less. I love the straight line launch of my car, just last night my friend commented on how there was no tire spin from a stand still. I don't need extreme handling, for my needs the car perform's extremely well with plenty to give if I asked it. Let's face it, as much as many would like to think they are we're not F1 racers. How much more handling does a car need on city streets? Just my opinion

lolachampcar | 21/07/2015

Had both.... Makes no difference on a 5000 lb boat. The only difference I felt was directly attributable to tire compound and construction as proven by running 20" Pilot Super Sports with roughly the same tire patch as the staggered fronts in a square configuration with better performance than anything Tesla has offered.

inconel | 21/07/2015

lolachamp are you running 245 on 20" Michelin PSS all around?

carlk | 21/07/2015

c'mon, it's all wheel drive, there is no wheel spin 0-30,

The two best known fast (and lighter) AWD cars 911 Turbo S and GT-R all have staggered and wider tires than P85D. They probably don't even have the same instant torque as the P85D. No tire slip does not necessarily mean you got the full power off line or cornering since we don't know what the traction and stability controls are doing.

Although I believe he's right but it's interesting that Elon says that even as Tesla is shipping non-staggered tires. Too bad the questioner did not follow up on that.

@PleasantonS That's a good observation but occasionally you do hear people say damn I could have had this or that.

carlk | 21/07/2015

Another thought, even if there is still a debate whether if it's useful why not just ship the staggered on your top of line $130K car? How much more will it cost you? Unless there is a down side but I don't think there is any , other than perhaps an insignificantly amount of range loss. But that's an insane/ludicrous car no one would likely care.

lolachampcar | 21/07/2015

255/40 ZR 20 PSS on all four

lolachampcar | 21/07/2015

I believe dropping 10 lbs per wheel made a much bigger difference in handling and ride quality. Acceleration/response normally improves with a reduction in rim mass as well but I did not do any back to back comparisons with MS to provide data.

Red Sage ca us | 23/07/2015

Some won't be satisfied until the Model S P135D comes with 22" 285s in the front, and 24" 335s in the back...

inconel | 24/07/2015

Red Sages: do the 24" 335s come on base model P135D Ludicrous or on the upgraded P135D Plaid?

Grinnin'.VA | 24/07/2015

@ Red Sage ca us | July 23, 2015

>>>Some won't be satisfied until the Model S P135D comes with 22" 285s in the front, and 24" 335s in the back...

^^^
You're probably right.

I'd add that such a new "top-of-the-line" model at a base price of $150K will be satisfactory for only about six months. Then some folks will be clamoring for "better performance" -- urging Tesla to build a "real" supercar that can do a 2.0-sec 0-60 time.

There is no end to this drag racing arms race.
It leads to Tesla making cars that fewer people can afford.
At least that's the way it looks to me.

carlk | 24/07/2015

The speed thing is built into our genes. Our ancestors didn't necessarily need to out run the lion but they need to out run the next guy.

Tezla888 | 24/07/2015

I hope when they do the upgrade to Ludicrous speed for $5000 it include wider rear pair of wheels to make my P85D stagger... right now its 245 19" all around.... If they keep the wheel the same, and Ludicrous launch does nothing but wheel spin, I would be very disappointed....

carlk | 24/07/2015

Someone quoted Elon as saying the 0-60 improvement came from 30-60 but not 0-30 due to tire limit.

Red Sage ca us | 24/07/2015

Grinnin' Ron: Do not despair. There is a version of the Porsche Panamera that lists for $263,900 and your Model S 85D will blow its doors off. Just know that the people who are smart enough to buy at ~$150,000 Model S instead are subsidizing the purchases of those who will be getting a $35,000 Model ≡ in two years.

jordanrichard | 24/07/2015

Staggered wheels improve cornering, not straight line acceleration. The reason the Porsche 911 Turbo is staggered is because, well all 911s have been staggered since 1978. Well there was that brief period in the late 90's early 2000's that the 911 was identical to the Boxster. anyways, the reason Porsche staggered the back wheels was to help reduce the tail happy weight biased back end of the car. I have an '83 911 SC. The rears are 225's and the fronts are 205's.

inconel | 24/07/2015

Carlk: thanks for giving me a good laugh. It is also good to finally know where my need for fast acceleration comes from, just survival instinct :)

swid | 24/07/2015

@hly Red Sages: do the 24" 335s come on base model P135D Ludicrous or on the upgraded P135D Plaid?

Just occurred to me that they should do a "special edition" performance roadster with a 141kWh battery.

It would be...

P141D (PlAiD)

Nantang | 24/07/2015

I wonder if 19" wheels and tires vs. 21" makes a difference with Ludicrous acceleration? We're getting into pretty extreme specs.

Grinnin'.VA | 25/07/2015

@ Red Sage ca us | July 24, 2015

>>> Grinnin' Ron: Do not despair. There is a version of the Porsche Panamera that lists for $263,900 and your Model S 85D will blow its doors off.

^^^
No problem. I'm not in any way concerned about the "performance" of my 85D compared with a Panamera, a P90DL, or any other car. I'm quite pleased with the way my 85D accelerates, drives and handles.

BTW, in a 20-mile race on a 1-mile track (you pick any track), how would my 85D do vs a Panamera (you pick any version)?

And how would a P90DL do in such a race?

lolachampcar | 25/07/2015

Grinnin
You just plain make me dizzy some times....

"It leads to Tesla making cars that fewer people can afford.
At least that's the way it looks to me." in one post followed by questions about how the P90DL will do in a race against a Panamera.

The 70D still costs what it costs. The existence of a P8590DLP or whatever does not change that. So, unless you are advocating that everyone be able to buy every variant of the MS, I really do not get where you are coming from.

As for the racing comment, wow, I had no idea you could store more energy with gas than with batteries.......

lolachampcar | 25/07/2015

or 85D v. Pana

detdds | 29/04/2019

Has anyone ever tried using the 20 inch 9 inch wide slipstreams that come standard on the front model x on all four wheels. According to my calculations you can then put 275 45 R20 tires on all four tires creating a square setup. I realize you cant simply move the 9.5 inch wide standard rear 275 45 R20 setup on the rear to the front because they will rub but if you mount that same tire on the 9 inch Slipstream wheel it should fit on the front. Now you have tire mileage warranty because you can rotate you and the load requirements will be met with the 275 tires.

Bighorn | 29/04/2019

@det
I think a 275 mm wide tire will rub up front, possible even moreso on a narrower rim since it will mushroom out more.