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Rumors in Norway: Tesla: Please dont use the SC

Rumors in Norway: Tesla: Please dont use the SC

http://www.side3.no/motor/tesla-sjefen-vil-begrense-din-bruk-av-gratis-s...

In short...Are You Living "close" to a SC station, You are kindly asked "not" to use the SC ...
For more details, Please Google translate the rest :)

Nicoletta | 10/06/2015

Gosh, I'm really afraid that due to those off-the-cuff comments by Elon yesterday, Tesla now will have to do some damage control.

FREE ENERGY | 10/06/2015

When asking my local TM service center, the answer I was given: "That´s correct".

FREE ENERGY | 10/06/2015

Ok please keep this issue hot until solved...

holidayday | 10/06/2015

What issue? SuperChargers are for long distance travel, not daily charging.
It was reiterated by Musk yesterday.

FREE ENERGY | 10/06/2015

No, Your are wrong, period !!!

kglad | 10/06/2015

before you guys start screaming at each other check out the same topic in the model s forums where this has generated a lot of heat and a spin-off thread about picking the sc abuser.

DonS | 10/06/2015

Tesla can read the car's mileage every time it connects to the Supercharger, so it is pretty obvious when charging is happening ONLY at Superchargers month after month. I doubt Tesla can or will stop someone from doing that, but they can certainly point out those owners who are not very good at a basic kindergarten skill like sharing.

chohans | 10/06/2015

This is quite upsetting. No one said it was for "long distance" only when I was buying the car. I was told you pay for the SC upfront and it is enabled once forever. And that it will be free forever.

These news seems kind of a "Bait and Switch". We hardly ever go long-distance, so what did I actually pay for?

Question: If there is no one using a SC slot, why should we be not allowed to sc?

Captain_Zap | 10/06/2015

No bait and switch. Superchargers were always marketed as a way to enable long distance travel for BEVs.

I think the real message is that people are expected to use the Superchargers them if they need them. But, it shouldn't be regularly abused when there are alternatives.

Grinnin'.VA | 11/06/2015

@ Captain_Zap | June 10, 2015

No bait and switch. Superchargers were always marketed as a way to enable long distance travel ...

I beg to differ. In the English language, "to enable long distance travel" does NOT mean "exclusively for long distance travel". Nor does it imply that "long distance" travelers have priority or preemptive rights to use SCs compared with local users. In the U.S. at least, there is a very broadly accepted cultural consensus. It's called "first-come, first-serve".

Prior to this week's annual meeting, Elon Musk and other Tesla executives had never suggested that using SCs for local travel was an "abuse" or in any way inappropriate.

Elon reversed long-established SC corporate policy. Previously, he proudly proclaimed that SC use was 'free' and unrestricted. Now he has changed his mind. Possibly many MS owners would be comfortable with this change if Tesla offered to refund $2K of any owner's money in exchange for them not being allowed to use any SC withing 50 miles of their home. Oh, but no such offer has been made. IT IS BAIT AND SWITCH. :(

IMO, this policy reversal will inevitably lead to angry confrontations at SCs between different users with different ideas about who is entitled to priority use of SCs. Nothing good will come from this ill-advised policy reversal.

chohans | 11/06/2015

Thank you Grinnin'.VA.

It certainly is BAIT and SWITCH. People should stop making apologies for Tesla.

Why does the 60KW version have this option? This is not really a "long Distance" car. Is it?
The 40 KW version would surely have had the same option and that definitely is not a 'long distance' car. Come to think of it, was the 40KW version real? It all kind of seems like a distant dream.

chohans | 11/06/2015

DonS, said "Tesla can read the car's mileage every time it connects to the Supercharger, so it.......".

This too is upsetting. Can Tesla, without any regard, just use my private information. Sure they can ask the car to work out certain metrics associated with the operation of the car. But using the information to basically POLICE me is going too far. What's next, snooping for the NSA? Downloading all my iPhone data like Google does?

ablack2004 | 11/06/2015

1st world problem at its best.
If this upsets you, no one is making you keep your car.
At the costs these cars sell for, I get that expectations are high for those that buy the car. But truthfully, I'm surprised that people would be upset over losing a few dollars here and there by not getting 'free' electricity.

I understand the $2000 option on the 60kW model, but this was, at least partially understood here from what I remember, (I've read comments on the board on and off over the past 1-2 years) to cover the cost of the supercharge capability and that supercharging was intended for long-distance travelling as a way to make Tesla more like an ICE car in that it could travel longer distances with only slightly longer stops compared to stopping for gas fill-ups. Now comparing to say a Leaf or a Soul EV using L3 charging stations out there, one would have to stop every 70-85 miles (making an EV vastly more inconvenient than an ICE). I don't know, but for me I'd pay for a supercharge option to get an EV that has all the conveniences of an ICE and non of the compromises of the typical EV.

Its not about making excuses for any company, but really about not sweating the small stuff. These cars are great. The company tries its a$$ off to make a great product and to keep people happy, but it seems people are getting more and more picky and sensitive in general. I'll take Tesla with their minor quirks or business model course corrections anyday or any of the major car companies we've had to settle for over the years.

Austin

chohans | 11/06/2015

1st world problem.....Hmmm. Let's see now, a car that costs $120K, with third world countries living on a few dollars a day. I guess any problem with this car is never going to be a third world problem. Guess I'd better keep quite or you'll call my complaint a 1st world problem.

And then, of course, the "...no one is making you keep your car..." comment. Ouch! I guess I'd better not make a comment about the government either or you'll no doubt tell me to "..leave the country if you don't agree with everything the government does..".

We all know these are bogus labels designed to shut people up. So, please do us a favour and stop making excuses.

BTW, I do love 98% of my car. I love how Tesla have liberated us from the horrible ICE industry. I have tried to sell friends and strangers on this car. I have argued with ICE car owners in ferry lineups about recycling batteries and manufacturing CO2 footprints and other myths that still survive and still proliferate among some ICE owners. Every day I discover something great about my model S. I want this thing to take! Of course I love it! But why should I not complain about what I feel is wrong. Yeah, sure, it is only a few dollars and probably not worth fighting about. But free SC IS A BIG SELLING FEATURE. It definitely was with me and it is with everyone I try to sell on this way of driving. Restrictive use of SC will only dampen interest in EV's.

I say to Elon, "Keep the baby going, solve this problem with GREAT ENGINEERING, that's how we got here, because you did some great engineering. This problem is no different, it just requires some great engineering".

SamO | 11/06/2015

Talked to a service ranger who claims that some locals living within walking distance were plugging in cars and leaving them overnight.

Definitely abuse.

Nothing to do with local charging = abuse.

Only people who need to tell people why they should feel guilty will be disappointed.

charlesraub | 11/06/2015

This is a first world problem complaint indeed. If you paid for the car with supercharging capability, surely you can afford to charge at home even if you worked a low income job. The map of the superchargers are located in a way for traveling long distances. Yes, Tesla called those out who are using superchargers for local use just to reiterate what their primary goal of supercharging is, a charging network capable of allowing this new technology to grow without range anxiety.

Be happy this company is providing FREE charging for a fixed $2,000 cost for life, it is nothing compared to 5-10 years of paying for gas on your trips....

jonlivesay | 11/06/2015

Big question, who wants to supercharge your car when you can just plug in at night and forget the time? For me personally it comes down to time versus dollars, I plug in at night and my net cost for a month is $6, I plug in at a supercharger and my net time for a month would be at least 15 total hours. 40 cents an hour seems a poor use of my time. Granted I am benefitting from a power company that leans heavily in my favor.

cconway | 11/06/2015

Ironic, given that Nissan is installing free fast chargers in urban and suburban areas specifically for local owners (I used one at a Walgreens last weekend).

Homebrook | 11/06/2015

I've got a free hot dog stand, but only for people who are really hungry for hot dogs.

Brian H | 12/06/2015

Nissan's cars are far more subject to running empty in local travel. But urban charging for apt dwellers etc has been started in megacities, like Moscow, Beijing, London, and NYC with suggestions that all urban centers would eventually get them. That does not mean existing SCs are sized and placed to achieve that, yet.

DTsea | 12/06/2015

Cconway that's because you cant really drive a Leaf outside your local area.

Red Sage ca us | 13/06/2015

I would expect 'abuse' to be termed as plugging up unnecessarily, taking up space at a buddy Supercharger, with regularity. For instance, if you live less than five miles from a Supercharger, barely drive even 50 miles a day, but stop to recharge fully daily, staying far longer than it actually takes to 'fill up'. No one should use a Supercharger as their own, personal parking space.

Red Sage ca us | 13/06/2015

Make that 'busy', buddy...

MountainVoyageur | 13/06/2015

Let's not reconstruct the thread from the Model S area (almost 500 messages now). I could not let this particular factual error go unchallenged, though.

Prior to this week's annual meeting, Elon Musk and other Tesla executives had never suggested that using SCs for local travel was an "abuse" or in any way inappropriate.

Elon reversed long-established SC corporate policy. Previously, he proudly proclaimed that SC use was 'free' and unrestricted. Now he has changed his mind.

That is simply false. As documented in the other thread, Elon publicly said in 2012 that Superchargers are intended to enable long distance trips. There has been no change in Tesla's intent for Superchargers.

@Grinnin'.VA -- you should know better, because you are active in the other thread, where this was documented, complete with URL.

lewispuller1964 | 14/06/2015

Thank you MountainVoyageur and RedSage! I agree, and frankly, I think its ridiculous that someone who lives near a SC would use it rather than charge at home. These people must have a lot of spare time on their hands. Besides, its pretty greedy to not pay for electricity on your own when you can afford a $70,000 to $130,000 car. I say this as an owner myself. I agree that free SC should be meant for those traveling...if every person living near a SC uses it to save themselves a few bucks, the network isn't going to work because the bays will always be occupied, and no one benefits from that.

lewispuller1964 | 14/06/2015

"chohans | JUNE 10, 2015
This is quite upsetting. No one said it was for "long distance" only when I was buying the car. I was told you pay for the SC upfront and it is enabled once forever. And that it will be free forever.
These news seems kind of a "Bait and Switch". We hardly ever go long-distance, so what did I actually pay for?"

Please, spare us the selfish whining. You are not a victim of anything.

buddyroe | 14/06/2015

You really have to question anyone who would go sit at a SuperCharger for 40-60 minutes for $8-10.

chohans | 14/06/2015

lewispuller1964

Spare us the superior I am above it all crap. You don't speak for me and many more others.

If it's for long distance only then say so in an "unambiguous" way. Otherwise it is what it is. Bait and Switch pure and simple.

chohans | 14/06/2015

MountainVoyageur,

".....As documented in the other thread, Elon publicly said in 2012 that Superchargers are intended to enable long distance trips. .........."

Before "supercharging" there was "non-supercharging" that enabled short trips. Just because the chargers were upgraded to so called "superchargers" (to enable long distance) doesn't mean the previous functionality (that of short distance charging) all of a sudden became invalid.

Why be so ambiguous. Say long distance ONLY if that's what you mean.

buddyroe | 15/06/2015

Again, I don't think Musk and co expected people who could afford an $80k (and up) car to be mooching off the system, giving the very small savings versus the time invested - drive to the SC station, sit there and charge for almost an hour, then drive back home - all for $8-12.

I'm totally shocked that this has become a problem.

drax7 | 15/06/2015

convenience should not be ignored, and most would pay for the convenience

vperl | 15/06/2015

Locals hog the stalls, I pull up, with two more Charging sessions on my way to my destination and see eight stalls filled with eight owners in lawn chairs drinking coffee and munching on pie.

In a couple of years this will happen unless the locals get the clear message, they are slugs.... Carry salt

ciesinger | 15/06/2015

Hello,

I am new here - but I have been following the progress of Tesla since the roadster and I am very impressed to say the least.

I jump in here, because I think that the issue of "locals at superchargers" is a non-issue from the business perspective of Tesla, at least in Norway.

Here is why (numbers are "tuned" to ease calculation):

Based on the price of the supercharger option for the Model S where this was an option - US$ 2500 - and assuming the SC capability does not require extra hardware in the car, also assuming the car consumes 20kWh/100km:

* 25ct/kWh would give 2500*100/25 = 10.000kWh and a resulting range of 50.000km from supercharging alone.

* 12.5ct/kWh would give 2500*100/12.5 = 20.000kWh and a resulting range of 100.000km from supercharging alone.

* 5ct/kWh would give 2500*100/5 = 50.000kWh and a resulting range of 250.000km from supercharging alone.

Putting that into perspective - german view:
* 25ct/kWh is what the private household pays for electricity
* 12.5ct/kWh is what you get to feed solar electricity into the grid (at a profit!)
* less than 5ct/kWh is what many large companies consuming more than 1GWh/year pay at the Leipzig Energy Exchange per kWh.

In Norway, prices for electricity are lower than in Germany.

Also in Norway there are other free options to charge, so it is very unlikely that a driver will take *every* charge from a Supercharger.

I don't think that even the heaviest local user in Norway will be able to exceed 250.000km worth of Supercharger charges during the lifetime of his/her Model S.

Brian H | 16/06/2015

clesinger;
Such comparisons are silly. The $2000/car must pay first for the equipment and sites and installation before the electricity. Much more complex caluculation.

ciesinger | 16/06/2015

Brian,
instead of trying to prove me wrong based on facts, you simpy mark my post as silly. Check RFC1855.

My point is: The infrastructure is there - but - does it break the business of Tesla to actually use it?

My personal opinion based on the numbers given in my earlier post is that even heavy SC use will not break the business of Tesla.

I think it is more dangerous for the business of Tesla to spread rumors.

Brian H | 16/06/2015

The numbers you gave earlier do not allocate construction costs, though I agree with the overall conclusion. For one thing, any "losses" can simply be expensed as (low cost) promotion and marketing if the SC creation and operation sides don't break even based on purchase allocation.

Guy2095 | 16/06/2015

buddyroe:

"You really have to question anyone who would go sit at a SuperCharger for 40-60 minutes for $8-10."

It's more than I'd make working as a greeter at Walmart for the same amount of time, tax-free, relaxing in the luxurious comfort of my MS, reading a good book while enjoying my music. What's not to like?

pandayashutosh39 | 17/06/2015

test

sbeggs | 18/06/2015

Flagged

Remnant | 18/06/2015

@ chohans (June 10, 2015)

<< No one said it was for "long distance" only when I was buying the car. >>

True, except for your own common sense, if you have any. The last thing Tesla needs is a bunch of moochers with a sense of entitlement to its life blood.

I would advise Tesla to program the SCs to deny service to locals or charge them the full price of the power they mooch, which should curtail the abuse by such cheapies.

holidayday | 18/06/2015

chohans: How often do you use a SuperCharger for charging your Tesla? How long is it parked while it is charging? Do you live in an apartment or house with no plugs available?

David N | 18/06/2015

Just a thought, my initial reaction after hearing Elon was not about power usaeage but more about taking spots and making those who were indeed needing a charge because of long trips having to wait because local owners were using the available spots at the Superchargers.
Am I way off base here?

jordanrichard | 19/06/2015

People, getting a flipping grip. Elon's comments were related to the intent of the SC network.
This has become a "Hot Issue" because no one is listening and start spouting off here in the multiple threads on this subject, without pausing for a moment to think this through.

Just keeping using the charges as you are and if Tesla, not people on this forum, thinks you are abusing the charges, they will let you know. No one here knows what Tesla considers "local" and no one here knows what Tesla considers "abuse". So can we now start speculating on what features 7.0 will bring us.....

SamO | 19/06/2015

+1 jordanrichard

carlgo2 | 20/06/2015

Tesla promoted the idea of wandering off to get a bite to eat or even to see a movie in order to make charging more palatable.

The charging issue is huge, the only obstacle to EV adoption once they become affordable (and they will).

Vawlkus | 24/06/2015

Within reason carlgo2. If you're at a supercharger parked for the better part of a day, WTH are you doing there?

Ideally, a supercharger is used for a couple of hours tops (generally closer to one hour). People using it that way aren't abusing it.
If somone that lives 5 miles away is parking their car there all day while they work nearby, that's abusing the supercharger to get free parking, and that's NOT how a supercharger is meant to be used.

That's how I look at this anyway.

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