Agreed. This was discussed recently but got lost in the spam war.
Actually it is another reason to get an EV.
The biggest issue in automobiles today is the lack of standardization. Each maker of automobiles have their own vision on the cockpit layout. Even from model to model there are differences. Yet, we drivers never really take the time to learn where everything is located, and never fully learn the electronics in that vehicle.
In a fully automated vehicle, there needs to be some means of taking over the control of the vehicle in the even of a malfunction. This is done in airplanes, and many people are alive today because of the ability of the pilot to pull the circuit breaker on the autopilot, electric trim, etc.
After writing a few pieces for https://www.upwork.com/o/jobs/browse/skill/essay-writing/ https://jetwriters.com/drinking-and-driving-essay/ I think automobiles can learn a lot about automation from aviation and the hard lessons learned.
Unfortunately, with aircraft, standardization has been locked down based on 1950's technology for the most part. This has effectively killed general aviation (in slow death now) and turned commercial aviation into a miserable stalled-out bottom-feeder industry (few even consider it "tech"). This is mostly because of the extreme difficulty current, mandatory, enforced standards require for a pilot to be selected, trained, and to maintain currency as well as the extreme cost of equipment. Most other non-aviation technologies have grown and thrived over the past 60 years instead, meaning that aviation has added little benefit to society while other technologies have greatly improved society.
There needs to be a balance between standardization, optimization, and improvement.
I have to wonder if Tesla is ready to manufacture, support and service a mainstream car to the public. I have had a confirmed date of May 18th to pick up a new Model 3 at the Tampa delivery center for over a month. My home is in the Fort Myers, Fl area and the delivery center is about 130 miles from my house.
I called the delivery center on the afternoon of May 17th to confirm the pick-up for the next day and was told everything was fine and confirmed the appointment. At 6:15 PM the delivery center called and told me not to come on May 18th. They told me that the car was damaged in transit and would have to be sent out to a body shop for repairs. ( I paid for the car two weeks ago. I would recommend that anyone purchasing a Tesla not pay until the day of delivery.)
Why does Tesla only have one delivery center on the West Coast of Florida? Why do they not inspect the cars when they were delivered, or was my car delivered 12 hours before my scheduled appointment? I have paid over $60,000 for a car that has been damaged and has to be repaired before I even can drive it. I also have to take another day out of my schedule to drive back and forth to Tampa to pick up the damaged/repaired new car. Why does the delivery center not have a body shop that can take care of the repair?
All of this tells me that Tesla is not a prime automotive manufacture and is not prepared to manufacture, deliver and service 2,500 cars per week much less 5,000 cars per week.
I am not a happy customer and I have not even taken delivery of the car. Three of my friends have reservations to purchase Model 3's. Two have cancelled based on my experience and a third will make a final decision based on how my issue is resolved, but he is cancelling his order for the in house charger tomorrow.
I hope your story eventually has a happy ending. I know it's not all roses for everyone at this point. I read the forums to weigh the good, the bad, and the ugly. I still think that it's very early in the game for Tesla and they have much to learn about this business of building and then delivering cars to the masses. Fingers crossed it is going to end well and their vision to change the automotive world is successful and profitable.
At this point in time, I truly regret that I have purchased the car. Manufacturing a car is one thing. Transporting a car from the manufacturing plant to the customer is a a different aspect and one that does not require a great deal of skill or know how in this day and age. Approximately 17,000,000 cars are delivered per year in the United States alone and the vast majority are delivered without damage. If there was some damage, it can be dealt with immediately at the delivery point and "not sent out to a body shop for repairs." Customers are not called 12 hours before their schedule delivery dates and told not to come. Please remember I called 4 hours prior to confirm the delivery and was told to come.
Transporting a car from point A to B without damage is not an art and is done every day. My experience with Tesla tells me that they have not mastered the simple things and as a consequence I doubt that they will be able to survive in the industry. I also question the engineering of the car. The management has made countless of promises he has not been able to keep. Why should the car be any different. I certainly will not invest my money in the company, but I may join the people that short the stock.
I doubt BMW, Mercedes, Honda, GM, Ford, Volkswagen & Nissan will have these problems as they roll out their electric car offerings. What will Tesla do in a year when it has serious competition? What do you think the re-sale value of the cars will be at that time?
earl and nagin,
how can you say that about aviation.... with a 70% reductiin in fuel burn per seat-mile since the 50s and an order of magnitude increase in safety? during that time aviation introduced antilock brake... now in cars... fly by wire... now in cars... composute materials... now in cars... increased the range by a factor of two andmproductivity by a factor of four... and on and on
the recent incudent on southwest was the first US air fatality in NINE YEARS.
this is a Tesla forum. if cars had made the progress planes have made we would get 120 miles per gallon, go 1000 miles on a tank, and fatalities would be 1-2k per year instead of 40-50.
go use an example where you know what you are talking about, please.
sorry re typos. phone.
@mark - Sorry about the problems you've had, but just because one car in 17 million cars arrives damaged, doesn't mean every car is damaged in transit. If you talk to any honest dealer - BMW, MB, GM, Toyota, etc, they will tell you damage occurs far more frequently than they would like. The further the car must travel, increases the risk of something going wrong. A dealer can often hide this because they get a batch of unsold cars and can make repairs before they set it out in the sun for a few months before it is sold. If you buy a car to order, then when the car arrives, it must be inspected and cleaned, which only takes a few hours.
Anyway, it seems clear you now hate Tesla and don't want the car. You should be able to ask for you money back and switch to a local dealer, where you can get a sub-standard car through a typical high-pressure buying process and drive off the lot in 4-5 hours. Some like this process better than Tesla's non-dealer approach.
Mark, go to the Port of Baltimore where most Mercedes and other European cars come in. They have repair shops on site to repair damage. There are several hands/drivers that a BMW, Mercedes, etc go through between Germany and your local dealer in say, CA. From the factory in say Bremen Germany, the car is driven out of the factory to waiting rail cars. Once the cars arrives at the port, someone has to drive it off the rail car onto the ship. Once it arrives in Baltimore it gets driven off the ship and put into a holding yard (hug parking lot). Then driven again on to a rail car. Once the train reaches CA, once again it’s driven off the train into another parking lot. Car carrier arrrives and once again it’s driven but this time onto an open car carrier, driven a few hundred miles and off loaded.
I am well aware that cars are damaged in transit. My point is Tesla does not have the infrastructure to deal with the repairs. My company sells the painting systems (world wide) to the automotive companies. Less tha 0.5% of cars world wide are damaged in transit. Of those damaged 97% are repaired at the delivery site within 8 hours.
My point is that Tesla does not have the infrastructure in place to deal with delivering large number of cars to customers. They have been successful (but not profitable even with a $7,500 government subsidy) as niche player with a cult following.
They have a long way to go to become a major factor in the market.
Correct. Tesla does not have the infrastructure to match GM or Ford....yet.
If that’s your main reason to buy (or not buy) a vehicle, then you should have gone with someone else.
@mark.gacka, I know you are frustrated that this rare event happened to you. Obviously that sucks, but you are making all kinds of illogical leaps and extrapolations.
Quote: “Transporting a car from point A to B without damage is not an art and is done every day.”
Yes, and transporting a car from point A to B WITH damage is ALSO done every day. Car transport services cause damage to some small % of cars all the time. That’s why they have insurance for that. It sucks that this happened to your car, but you are going on and on about how this apparently means it’s a huge pervasive issue with lots and lots of cars, etc. and there’s just no evidence of that. You are taking your one example, and thinking that makes it common.
I want to have sympathy with the pain of your situation, but I just can’t have agreement with the conclusions you are drawing because of the lack of logic there.
Quote: “I doubt BMW, Mercedes, Honda, GM, Ford, Volkswagen & Nissan will have these problems as they roll out their electric car offerings.”
Different sales model, so here’s what happens: X% of BMW’s cars get damaged in transport—it happens. They get to the car dealership. The damage was noted, and they send it for body work to get it repaired. It gets fixed, and then the car goes back to the dealership lot. Then it sits there on the lot for some time. Eventually some customer sees it and takes a test drive. Or maybe test drives a different car but wants a different color, so they get the one that was repaired. They will NEVER know about what happened to it before, because it wasn’t already assigned to them from the factory with them waiting breathlessly to arrive. So they don’t even have the opportunity to experience those delays.
These issues are just uniquely exposed to the customer because of Tesla's direct business model.
Neither of my two Tesla were delivered damaged. Just lucky? I don't think so. Normal.
I want to thank everyone for helping me make my point.
The delivery center called late today and informed me the car was sent to a body shop. They will repair two paint chips on the right rear quarter panel. The repair will be competed and the car will be ready for pick up ONE WEEK FROM TODAY. No other REPUTABLE CAR COMPANY would consider this ACCEPTABLE PERFORMANCE / TIME FRAME to repair two paint chips.
The problem is that TESLA does not have the ability to deal with minor issues that will and do occur.
I'd much rather have a couple of paint chips fixed by a reputable body shop that takes a week to do it right, rather than the salesmen using touch-up paint. Any dealer that is doing it in a day is doing an incredibly crappy job and I wouldn't want that vehicle. Of course that is often the typical way dealers operate - spend the least amount as quickly as possible no matter how poor the results.
Obviously we have a different view on getting work done correctly. Nothing wrong with that. You could have asked Tesla to do a crappy 1 hour paint fix, but it appears Tesla has too much integrity to do that.
I know quite a few dealers who have body shops that do more than a professional repair. I have never seen a dealer using sprays cans or the small bottles of touc up paint.
Please be realistic.
Why isn’t Tesla shipping cars with a protective cover a la Audi?
Please be aware that in the manufacturing plant the total car has paint applied in five minutes and cured in 35 minutes.
In a professional repair shop, the area is lightly wet sanded, cleaned with a solvent and the paint applied with an air spray gun. The paint is is cured in 35 minutes with a bank of heat lamps. Color match is not a problem as the car is new and the paint has not faded. The whole job takes about one hour.
If it a “metallic” paint the whole quarter panel would have to be done and in this case the whole job may take two hours because of the additional prep work.
Tesla will need these capabilities in their delivery centers if they are going to compete in the broader market.
I forgot to mention that in the manufacturing plant many paint defects are repaired at the end of the cure oven in the paint shop. Also some paint defects may be noted on final inspection and repaired at the plant in an area to repair spot defects in the same manner as the dealer does the repair.
The automotive companies have agreements with the companies that transport the cars on who is responsible for paying for the repair. In addition, if the defect was clearly caused by the manufacturing plant, such as a run or sag, the dealer performs the repair and bills the automotive manufacture for a warranty repair. Photo’s are taken of every paint defect upon final delivery so it can be determined who caused the problem and who will pay for the repair.
The delivery center admitted to me that the did not inspect the car when it was delivered. The found the damage when the were cleaning the car just prior to me taking delivery.
Again, Tesla does not have the basics down for the automotive business. Protect the car during shipment to minimize the potential for damage & INSPECT every car when it is taken off the carrier at the delivery site. Have the equipment on site to take of minor repairs professionally.
After getting 3 Teslas, 2 of which were delivered over 200 miles to our cabin I have never seen such incredible customer service and a perfect car. 5 years ago someone left a spray bottle in the glove box. They game me a $200 detail job for free as they one at the Service Center for many years now.
You might wonder why I don't believe any of the complaining since it is 180 degrees incorrect.
The enemies of Tesla are not ethical but have a super selfish motive.
I am telling the truth. Sorry you don’t want to deal with it, but I am not an enemy of Tesla.
Agree with Mike83. Somebody seems to have an agenda here. Not buying it.
Well, I am using my real full name on the site. If Tesla can dispute anything I have said and can state where I have not told the truth, let them state what their side of the story is.
Tesla has manufactured and delivered less than 200,000 cars since they have been in existence. They hope to manufacture and deliver over 300,000 in the next 12 months. The business model for delivery and service will have to change with increased volume.
Again, my real name is being used. If Tesla wants to refute what I have said, let them respond with what they believe has occurred. I have been dealing with the manager at the Tampa Fl delivery center.
Sometimes you can learn more and improve the business the greatest amount by listening to one disgruntled customer rather than basking in the compliments of 100 satisfied customers.
Sheesh, guys. I really dislike the jumping to the conclusions of this being fake or not real, or it just being someone with an agenda making up stories. It doesn't sound like this at all. The level of irritation is actually what makes it seem so very authentic. Some people are just very uptight and demanding. Most of us know people like that.
Level of irritation is the problem of the personality of that person and not necessarily true to the facts. In most cases, like 98% of Tesla owners it has not been an issue.
Also posting private adds some credibility and most of these sad cases are not known on the forum or post privately
You can verify the facts with the Tampa delivery center.
Guys, it's pretty obvious that Mark's got an authentic complaint. Let's not dismiss him for that.
On the other hand, before Mark put down his $2500 non-refundable deposit, he knew that Tesla had far fewer service locations than, for example, Chevrolet. That was obvious when he paid $2500 without the ability to get a test drive, and knowing that he'd have to drive 130 miles to pick up the car. Someone in Flagstaff, AZ who wants a Porsche is gonna have the same kind of experience - 150 miles to the Porsche dealer in Phoenix.
He can be upset about the delivery center not noticing the paint defect until the day before his delivery - his isn't the first story of this kind of event, and won't be the last. Tesla isn't as slick in it's processes as your average Chevy dealer who's been in business for the last 30 years. Of course, the business models are different - the Chevy dealer sells from inventory, so if a car comes in scratched it gets fixed before it's ever put up for sale. Tesla gives you a bit more of a view behind the curtain because the car may still be at the factory (for CA cars) when your delivery is scheduled, so you hear about any transportation damage. Tesla uses the same transportation carriers as other car manufacturers, so it's unlikely their damage rate is much different than the 1 in 200 that Mark quotes.
Is Tesla gonna be challenged as they start delivery 20,000 cars a month to Ma and Pa Kettle? Yes, they are. Are they ready for it today? No, they're not - but it appears to me that they recognize the challenge, and are building facilities and staff as fast as they can to be ready.
I think it’s media hype. If it was a big issue we would see manufactures placing a switch in the seat to turn off car when driver exits. Even Tesla will shift to park when you leave the seat. Can’t be that difficult.
-- oh I'm sorry, did I get back on OP topic?
I am sorry to hear about Mark.gacka's experience, which does not mirror mine as a 3 Tesla owner (2 MS's, and M3) over 5 year+ period. I have never had anything but positive experiences with our Seattle Service Center regarding the deliveries and subsequent service on all three cars.
To get back to the OP topic, it reinforces that owning a Tesla is the way to go!
@mark.gacka - if you're bothered by this delay BEFORE delivery then you'll be frustrated down the line when you'll be needing to take the car to service 1-2 times in the first few year because of simple issues as was the case with my Jan 17 model S. Granted they did fix it quickly within 2 hours but if your service center is too far then you should account for that. Also don't follow Musk on twitter since "Elon time" doesn't match human time - for e.g. their /autopilot '16 self driving video won't happen this decade - other than that it's a beautiful car that you'll be admiring every day.
Please see the thread "Don't ever pay for your Tesla with electronic transfer funds prior to delivery." You will see that I am not only the only one having some difficulties with Tesla delivery.
Mark. Correct. You are not the only one. With a Tesla, the company just doesn’t have the level of infrastructure and service capabilities that other companies do who are ten times older.
You seem to be really quick to point this shortcoming out. If you are that sensitive to this issue, you should have been smarter and never purchased a Tesla at this time. I knew going into it that the closest service center I have is over 3 hours away and none are in my state. One has got to be willing to be a bit more flexible when owning a Tesla. That’s just the way it is right now. I still think its definitely worth it as do most other owners. But you already have an extremely sour taste in your mouth that will probably stick around for a long time. Personalities are different. Some people can’t handle it.
However be warned that you could also have a bad experience with another brand. Yes this article is a bit old but the company has been around a century.
Funny how this went off topic. Got up this morning after warming up my Tesla with the app and summoned it out of the clean carbon monoxide, gas and oil free garage. Life is good.
Please read some additional topics / threads on this blog regarding the Model 3 deliveries. I am by far not the only one having some difficulty. My friend in Naples Fl, who has 2 Tesla’s recently had trouble getting one of his serviced. They told him that they were overloaded taking care of problems with recent Model 3 deliveries. They cannot deal with his problem for a month.
He is not a happy customer.
Take you BS on your own thread. Hijacking a thread shows that you are not considerate and perhaps are being treated to what you dish out.