Forums

Charging Stations

Charging Stations

If there are mods on this forum, please delete if already discussed.

EM’s idea of turning the world onto sources of renewable energy really requires the success of all EVs, not just Tesla. I love the exclusivity of the Tesla charging stations, but why can’t EV manufacturers decide on one standard technology for EV charging stations? It seems like this is another Betamax vs VHS fight.

If the industry could decide on one supercharging standard, then charging stations could grow to be as ubiquitous as gas stations for all EVs. This would make charging so much easier and completely eliminate the “range anxiety” that some of us feel when driving to areas not supported by superchargers. EM could go a long way by sharing Tesla SC technology with the other serious EV manufacturers and sharing the cost of building superchargers nationwide.

It would be nice if SCs were available at every highway exit, just the same as with gas stations.

jordanrichard | 09/06/2019

There is no fight, Tesla’s will have more charging options that’s EVs from other car companies. Tesla’s can use any charger plus our own. The reason there is no set standard is because other manufacturers don’t want EVs to be viable. Just simply look at the small plug for a Tesla, think about the amount of power that can pass through it and then look at a standard J1772 connector. It’s larger and bulkier, never mind the huge CHADEMO connector. These were designed that way to make it unyielding to handle. There is no coincidence that the diameter of the Tesla connector is the same size as a gas nozzle. It is a familiar shape and size and even where you plug into a Tesla is the same as a gas gar, in the rear quarter panel area.

BuffaloBillsFan | 09/06/2019

@JR. That’s why I said other “serious” EV manufacturers. You are right. I think a lot of EV producers apart from Tesla want them to fail, but that shouldn’t be an impediment to adopting a universal standard that all serious EV producers can adopt.

Perhaps there are no serious EV manufacturers other than Tesla?

Why can’t Tesla share the burden of making SCs ubiquitous? As much as I love the company, I don’t think their top priority is making a Tesla SC available in Boone NC even though I would very much like them to. Why not share the load with others? The faster we have a ubiquitous SC network, whether or not it is uniquely Tesla or not, the better.

A supercharger on every street corner sounds a whole lot better to me than a gas station on every street corner. Tesla can’t do that alone, as much as it might like to try

EV companies should share technology and agree on the best one (my hunch is that it will be Tesla SC technology). Only then will you see the EV market truly emerge. If Mr. Musk is serious about making our country a 100% EV market, that is the only way to go.

TabascoGuy | 09/06/2019

@BBF - Keep in mind that the majority of people charge their cars at home. That significantly reduces the need for a "supercharger on every street corner".

BuffaloBillsFan | 09/06/2019

@TG. Yeah, i do that as well. But wouldn’t it be better if we didn’t have to worry about where we need to charge on longer trips? I would love it if/when we can pull off to charge when we decide to and not worry overmuch about when we need to. Plus, as well as the Tesla SCs cover the US, there are still massive gaps in charging service. I think that until charging stations are ubiquitous, EV sales will remain limited to Tesla buyers and other EV buyers with regrets about their limited range. Why not cooperate with other serious players in the EV market to enhance SC availability? That would be a win for Mr. Musk’s dream of a carbon-free car fleet and a win for all EV users.

JMO

PrescottRichard | 09/06/2019

Don’t forget that charging at home isn’t an option for all - apartment dwellers for example.

ewoodrick | 09/06/2019

There is no fight? Tesla just gave in to CCS in Europe.

Indeed it is a problem that keeps users confused and if the resources combined, there'd be twice as many chargers.

NKYTA | 09/06/2019

“Perhaps there are no serious EV manufacturers other than Tesla?”

Yep, that.

Nobody but Tesla has the same goals. Convince them otherwise.

DanFoster1 | 10/06/2019

The others believe they can kill Tesla by adopting their own plug designs, and bribing governments to back their stupid plugs. In Europe, they’ve succeeded in making Tesla switch to an inferior plug design. America seems content to remain fragmented for now. This is all incredibly stupid, short-sighted, and arrogant; it is not Tesla’s doing, nor their fault. Tesla gave their patents to the world.

cabbower | 10/06/2019

Would love to see gas stations put in chargers (ok, I know that won't happen) but it would make sense. A stop for charging is longer and most stations rely on sales of food, drink and other things to make a profit. Just as there are different types of fuel for ICE's there could be different chargers available. I.know, the oil companies would never allow it, sigh.

David N | 10/06/2019

BBfan,
Elon recognizes the need for a unified charging system. Some 4-5 years ago he opened up Tesla patents for others to use, free!, there were zero takers, he next offered the Supercharger network to anyone interested, in an interview last week Elon was asked if any other manufactures have inquired about using the Supercharger network, his response was “ no one has contacted me”.
Without Elon and Tesla, the EV movement would be dead. No other major manufacturer wants EV’s, plain and simple . They have invested billions in ICE’s, they’re shareholders want to make money on their investment today, today meaning not a few years from now. CEO’s of all the major auto mgf don’t want to make the investment because of the cost (billions). Elon had to go on his own if Tesla was to succeed. In the end, without a fast charging infrastructure in place , all other EV’s will just be commuter cars, and in the end will give EV’s a stigma of being just that, a short range commuter car.. perhaps the question should be to the CEO’s of the major auto mgf “Why haven’t you joined Tesla in their Supercharger network”?
I think I already know their answer “ we don’t need Tesla’s charging network”.
Well, let’s see how that works out for them.
Pride will be their downfall.

BuffaloBillsFan | 10/06/2019

@David N

Thanks! I did not know that he had made the offer. How stupid and shortsighted of the ICE industry not to latch on to an already impressive charging network FOR FREE. I am not sure how the ICE dinosaurs will survive this. I am one hundred percent convinced that EV sales will top gas vehicles in overall sales within the next ten years. Car manufacturers can either be proactive and help develop a ubiquitous charging network for ALL EVs or get the hell out of the way and let newer up-and-coming companies take over the car market. Bummer that the first suggestion seems to be falling on deaf ears. If the car manufacturers all played nice together, we would probably already be at a point where range anxiety was a thing of the past. Imagine how many EVs would be sold then! Kudos to EM for making his charging technology available to everyone.i didn’t know that he had done that, but I am a relative newbie to the Tesla Mafia. It makes me even more proud to own my M3, and to own stock in the company. Tesla puts its money where their mouth is.

@ewoodrick. Are you sure that EM capitulated to an inferior charging design in Europe? That is the first I have heard of it. I am all aboard with adapters for our Tesla’s to take advantage of other charging networks in a pinch, but I didn’t hear that Tesla was planning on abandoning supercharger stations in Europe. Hope that is not true.

BuffaloBillsFan | 10/06/2019

‘Where it’s mouth is,” not “their.” Still don’t know how to edit posts on this forum. Sorry.

S75RedRidingHood | 10/06/2019

All of different standard/shapes of the plugs could be solved easily with adapters (Tesla did it for CHADEMO and now fo CCS). The issue is payment processing; any other charging service requires user to sign up for an App or a NFC card or using credit card. Tesla supercharge requires none of those, just plug in and you are done. So if any other EV maker want their user to use Tesla supercharge then they must implement the payment authentication in their car like Tesla cars.

jordanrichard | 11/06/2019

BBF, the other car companies are not being stupid or shortsighted, they are being put between a rock (Wallstreet) and a hard place (the EV future) . This is really not as complicated as you think. Simply follow the money. Dealers make most of their revenue/profit from parts/servicing ICE vehicles. The dealers are also the real customers of the car companies. They don't want and will fight anything that makes EV more appealing.

So here it is Tesla is making the other car companies look like antique purveyors but their customers (dealers) don't want to buy anything that will mean less "cradle to grave" revenue for them.

Earl and Nagin ... | 11/06/2019

@BBF,
You answered your own question with:
"Perhaps there are no serious EV manufacturers other than Tesla?"
Standards come from standards organizations. CCS came from SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), the same ones responsible for oil viscosity and other automobile related standards. It is composed of representatives from automobile manufacturers and suppliers who all sit down and agree upon standards, then publish and (sometimes) enforce them.
It is all done by consensus -- a challenge since the members all compete with each other.
Tesla was active in the CCS development, however, it became clear to Tesla early on that the rest of the players wanted EVs to fail (see the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car" and were stifling the design to minimize its utility and convenience. Among the things I heard from folks on the committee was that the auto industry did not want CCS to support faster than 50kW charging rate and that they insisted on using the J-1772 plug as part of their plug with a couple of high power connectors added to make it the "Frankenplug" that it is today. Tesla had already battled the J-1772 committee to support higher power ratings but GM, among others, didn't even want it to support more than 15 amp charging (possibly to ensure that an ICE was REQUIRED for long distance travel).
As we know, fast charging is key to cutting out the ICE.
Also, with both the J-1772 and the CCS committees, the powers that be were dragging their feet in finalizing the standard while Tesla had to deliver cars. They would have been happy to spend the next 50 years completing the standard so they could claim that 'they were working on EVs and would build them as soon as the standard was ready'.
Tesla couldn't accept the garbage that was being promoted by the rest, nor could they tolerate the delays. They decided to go it alone. As Elon Musk said: "Tesla is the standard". He then invited others to participate in the buildout. From what I've heard 1st hand from people in the ICE industry, the rest of the automobile industry turned Tesla's offers around as a more politically palatable, self-serving sign of Tesla's pending death. They just gloated that "Tesla can't handle the task and is desperately looking for help in building out their network"
My understanding is that Tesla only (reasonable IMHO) wants any participants to help fund the rollout.

David N | 11/06/2019

BuffalobillsFan,
Just to clarify , Tesla patents are open source, meaning free, no cost to use them. I do believe the only restriction is to “ask for permission” ( most likely so Tesla knows who is using them) of which Elon has said that no one has asked.
Now the Supercharging network , that has indeed been offered , but it is not free, Elon said others are welcome to join in its use but would need to help in the cost, which is only common sense. Irregardless, there have been zero takers.
I personally don’t get it. If GM would’ve made the Bolt to have supercharging capabilities, it instantly makes the Bolt a long range, anxiety free EV. Capable of traveling coast to coast using the SC network. As of today the Bolt remains just a commuter car. GM’s decision kinda lets the cat out of the bag that they have no real intention of creating a compelling EV. All the hype you read or hear about GM is going to do this or that is all just talk, hot air.

jordanrichard | 11/06/2019

David N, you don’t get why GM didn’t make the Bolt supercharger capable? You answered you own question within the question. It would make the Bolt a viable long range car, which goes against what the dealers want you to believe.

BuffaloBillsFan | 12/06/2019

Wow! Thanks for all who responded. I have learned a lot on this thread. After having watched all ~2 hours of the shareholder meeting last night, I am still all in on Tesla.

It is so disappointing to me that EV/ICE manufacturers won’t accept the fact that their ICE’s are soon going to bite the dust. A single standard for high-speed EV charging would completely and very quickly change the calculus for the entire auto industry.

This change is going to happen whether or not the current ICE manufacturers or global oil fight against it. It is inevitable, and I am sad that they are fighting it tooth and nail. The change could have been made so much faster if everyone got on board. I’m betting that the Tesla standard for charging will become the industry standard.

I doubled down on my Tesla stock yesterday. I am in it for the long haul, and in the meantime, I will continue to enjoy the Tesla SC stations when I travel.