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Range Increase

Range Increase

I have an AWD LR M3. Now with 15000mi. My range had been dropping over the past 6 months at a predictable rate to around down 4%. I had a range of 310 when I took possession of the car November 2018. It had dropped to a low of 296. Since the latest firmware upgrade (2019.36.2.1) it has steadily increased. Today the 100% SOC is at 304.66 (see Teslafi graph link below). I have used the new SCHEDULED TO LEAVE option while charging so the battery has been conditioned each morning. Not sure if this is directly related to the firmware upgrade, related to the battery conditioning in the morning or random. The range uptick occurred shortly after the firmware upgrade. If the graph posts you can see it has not leveled off yet. Ill post an update when it does.

PS. Im not quite sure how to post the actual Teslafi graph but here is the link to an imgur shot.

https://imgur.com/JedEV84

FISHEV | 19/11/2019

The 2019.32(?) aka "V10" update zapped range by about 10-20 miles and also started mixing driving stats into Rated Range. Variations in Rated Range are more common now.

On problem Tesla has with the LR AWD 322 range announcment is that increases the 30% degradation point to 225 miles of Rated Range at 100% charge. That may be why Tesla is not providing the increased 322 range to existing LR AWD customers. It is taking the risk on the new LR AWD in order to increase sales.

calvin940 | 19/11/2019

@drchris3

Ignore FISHEV. He knows absolutely nothing about EV and most other subjects.

Wait for other knowledgeable people (such as bighorn, like Bighorn, TeslaTap, and a number of others) to respond. They are the ones with actual information.

FISHEV | 19/11/2019

"The 2019.32(?) aka "V10" update zapped range by about 10-20 miles and also started mixing driving stats into Rated Range. Variations in Rated Range are more common now."

Here's the video on testing on the range reduction in V10/2019.32. Bjorn's first tests showd 6kWh (25 miles of range) but he later revised to 3 kWh or 10 miles of lost range on the update.

There's been no announcement by Tesla of extending the new LR AWD range of 322 to existing LR AWD cars. Likely because it raised the range at which Teslas 30% degradation warranty kicks in.

dhavtru | 19/11/2019

I have also noticed same. at 90% charge I use to get 279 miles and now at 90% I am getting 272 vs 279.

Magic 8 Ball | 19/11/2019

Sounds like a lemon, see if you can get your money back.

drchris3 | 19/11/2019

M8B,

Could you check the graph in my original post and give your thoughts.

Magic 8 Ball | 19/11/2019

My thoughts are that the graph is improperly labeled. The estimated range vs time is not battery degradation. The graph goes up and down, you are currently experiencing a spike showing increase estimated range. That is what I see. As to why, it would all be speculation. One larger variable, that affects the number, is temperature.

Magic 8 Ball | 19/11/2019

BTW I realize ODO is not time but since miles are put on per unit of time I took some liberty.

drchris3 | 19/11/2019

It is a Teslafi graph. It has shown a choppy, but steady, battery degradation. Given the nature of the battery I was not alarmed or surprised. Ill post again in a few days to see where the graph goes.
As I said in the original post it seemed to correlate w/ the latest firmware upgrade.

That being said, kinda enjoying the latest few upgrades. Summon, entertainment, one-pedal, etc.

The car is never boring.

Magic 8 Ball | 19/11/2019

I really would not call it degradation and just call it what it is, estimated range. I do not know what data Teslafi uses but let me ask you this: If Tesla did an OTA to change the estimated range would that show up on Teslafi just the same? It sounds like it does if you are postulating the update caused the spike. So your battery has not physically changed in anyway (did not magically undegrade) and the number is some constant Tesla can change at anytime factored with some algorithm that I have not seen clearly explained.

drchris3 | 19/11/2019

I must admit this is somewhat of a black box for me. I do understand the kinetics of the battery are that the it will degrade over time. Tesla has warrantied the battery to 70% degradation. I actually think the battery has degraded normally over the past year. No worries on my end, the car functions wonderfully.
The curiosity is that there seems to be a spike in estimated range since the last firmware upgrade...curious. It
Maybe on the line of how they can release a 5% power upgrade with a software manipulation. BTW, subjectively I think the car is quicker and Ive seen some data to support that all the 3s are quicker. Sub-3s 0-60s for the 3P.
You maybe right that Tesla can manipulate this number at will. If so that kinda makes the warranty a joke since they wont let anyone dip below the 70% mark.

FISHEV | 19/11/2019

"The curiosity is that there seems to be a spike in estimated range since the last firmware upgrade...curious"@drchirs3

You have a couple sharp spikes on that graph that look to be software changes vs. physical changes in the battery. A couple reductions and a couple increases in Rated Range.

Magic 8 Ball | 19/11/2019

@drchris3 There is no doubt Tesla can change that number at will. It has always been a black box with all PHEV's and BEV's. Yes, entropy is a fact of life and all batteries degrade no matter what. The spike is, indeed curious, but many have reported getting an overnight increase after firmware upgrade. Tesla has announced the range would go up on some models and so it is natural it would show up on the car somehow. There are a few possible reasons why Tesla can "unlock" more range and that would be a different conversation. The main point is the estimated range may show a trend (degradation which happens no matter what) but I really would not fixate on it or assume that it shows an accurate rate (there is other stuff in the black box making that number change).

FISHEV | 19/11/2019

"If so that kinda makes the warranty a joke since they wont let anyone dip below the 70% mark."@drchris

Tesla still has to meet the EPA test standards so there is true baseline on range. Currently 322 miles for LR AWD.

Only way to really test battery degradation is run the car until it goes off. Probably a test everyone should do 6 months/10,000 miles before warranty expires to see where is battery degradation.

-TheJohn- | 19/11/2019

The one certainty in this thread is that anything Fish says is a distorted lie.

stingray.don | 19/11/2019

We need to correct some misinformation posted earlier in this thread. Tesla's warranty on the battery provides for 70% retention of battery capacity over the warranty period. The warranty period starts at the delivery date or the date the car was put into service (in the case of a demo model). The warranty also specifically states that "the vehicle's range estimates are an imperfect measure of battery capacity because they are affected by additional factors separate from battery capacity. The measurement method used to determine battery capacity... are at the sole discretion of Tesla." If Tesla increases the rated range via a software update, then this will have no effect on the battery capacity or the warranty. If the increase in range is just a software update, there is no reason to believe existing owners will not get the same benefit.

Bighorn | 19/11/2019

Range numbers fluctuate. They don’t degrade and recover. Full stop.

drchris3 | 19/11/2019

So, estimated range does not loosely correlate w/ battery integrity? If not what does?

Magic 8 Ball | 19/11/2019

Yes, there is loose correlation but not really a useful metric to base fear, uncertainty, or doubt, on whether or not your battery is "sick".

tdtrinh08 | 19/11/2019

dhavtru, I've noticed the same, the only I can attribute it to is probably the car, per Tesla support, is learning as you drive, is putting the range based on how efficient you usage has been. I've noticed that when I first got the car in April of this year and throughout the summer, I was averaging about 250wh/m but now, since about late September til now, it's quite a bit higher, averaging about 300wh/m. Not sure if the colder weather is doing this, but it seems weird. I actually drive more conservatively and it still worst, all other A/C and heat being constant as A/C was on in the summer and heat in the winter, though at only 68 and 70 degrees, for summer/winter, respectively.

Thoughts?

PECo CT | 19/11/2019

I don’t think that the Model 3’s estimated range is based on actual usage. My LR DM was consistently indicating 248 miles at 80 percent for most of the year (i.e., 310 miles x 80 percent). Recently, it dropped a bit to 243 miles, but after 36.2.1, it increased to 253 miles.

Given that my usage is typically only 32 actual miles per day, the fluctuations in projected range are of little concern to me.

FISHEV | 19/11/2019

“Not sure if the colder weather is doing this, but it seems weird. I actually drive more conservatively and it still worst”@tdtrinh08

Fer shure the cold weather. Here’s aggregate of all Model 3 owners energy efficiency. As you see it drops a lot in the colder weather..

https://imgur.com/Ih0Yfkv

Devilstower | 19/11/2019

The answer that's been provided to several people by Tesla service indicates that projected range is a "complex value" based on a number of factors, including weather and how you've been driving.

So if you've consistently been getting fewer miles than indicated, your projected mileage could go down simply because the system is trying to better project what you're going to get in your conditions.

-TheJohn- | 19/11/2019

That's just about the most useless graph I've ever seen lol.
Name your source for one.