Getting closer to the end of the year and seems like we are not receiving promised features (automatic city driving and stop and light recognition)
2019.40.x should include some of this
Elon said on track for feature complete FSD to be rolled out to early access members by year end. Not wide release.
Technically, he said feature complete by end of 2019. As he explained, right now we have low speed autonomy in Summon/Smart Summon, and high speed autonomy on highways. All that’s left is mid speed autonomy which includes stop signs, and traffic lights, and that is almost ready (the just released 40.2 includes running stop sign recognition, which parallels the running stop light recognition). I’d say we are very close to how he defined feature complete.
I think we may have a different definition of the word "Promise".
Sweet selective paying attention.
Elon had identified that he expected it to be feature complete by end of this year but not in wide release (ie. limited release, ie. not you unless you are in the Early Access Program and then possibly even not all members)
@ calvin940, correct.
There are so many statements tweets definitions that anyone can take a position and argue forever.
There is only one truth though - Tesla is the only automobile that you can purchase that gets you close
This is for anyone doubting the direction - what other vehicle would you buy if you hope to see advanced autonomy?
You think you can get a refund?
Maybe English is a second language here.
"There are so many statements tweets definitions that anyone can take a position and argue forever."
That is exactly the problem. Terms used are very loose and do not correspond to any established definitions. What does "feature complete" actually mean?
From the man himself during the third-quarter earnings call:
“Yeah, feature-complete, I mean, it’s — the car is able to drive from one’s house to work, most likely without interventions. So it will still be supervised, but it will be able to drive — it will fill in the gap from low-speed autonomy — low-speed autonomy with Summon. You’ve got high-speed autonomy on the highway, and intermediate speed autonomy, which really just means traffic lights and stop signs.
“So feature-complete means it’s most likely able to do that without intervention, without human intervention, but it would still be supervised. And I’ve gone through this timeline before several times, but it is often misconstrued that there’s three major levels to autonomy. There’s the car being able to be autonomous but requiring supervision and intervention at times. That’s feature complete. Then there’s — and it doesn’t mean like every scenario, everywhere on earth, including ever corner case, it just means most of the time,” Musk said.
FSD, features somewhat deployed, Vern :)
We all know Musk's timelines are deliberately aggressive and impossible to achieve. Its his way of challenging his dev team to deliver faster than they otherwise would have. Engineers probably wanted 3 years of development. Elon said fine, you have 8 months. Maybe he'll get what he really wants in 1.5 years.
He has that reputation, but he's been ahead of schedule on several recent projects.
That sounds like a Cpt Kirk to Scotty dialog.
"How long will it take?"
"you got 10 minutes or we're all dead"
“I’m given’ her all she’s got, Elon!”
Get him FISHE! Tell him about the rear wiper blade too!
Big’s comment clearly not bigotry but sarcasm of the obvious.
Just tried version 2019.40.2 around town for about 10 miles. We got stop sign and signal light warnings about 3 times out of 10 or 12 intersections. We tried a traffic circle where it never slowed so we had to take over.
In traffic it worked great. When you came to a stop sign with a vehicle in front of you, it would stop and go until it was your turn, when it would start moving and you had to brake. At stop lights with traffic, it stayed in autopilot unless the vehicle in front turned, it then tried to keep going. When it did recognize a stop sign it gave a double beep.
Running H.W. 2.5.
Autopilot Driving and Foot Pedals Clearances.
On all cars, the left foot has a foot rest...brilliant. However, the right foot has nowhere to go but rest on accelerator or hover over the brake pedal. NOT satisfactory. Navigation on Autopilot works great...in fact...too good. Now I can exercise my left leg (on long trips), but my right leg and foot are trapped between brake pedal and accelerator....NOT good. If center console had a scalloped section at floor level, of about 2-inches, I could happily exercise both legs and feet and not be so darn cramped at end of trip. I’m an old guy who wishes engineers had thought this thru’. Far more relaxing and fun to drive, when you right foot isn’t mangled between the pedals.
@Lazar I have always hated that right foot rest because it's never adjustable.
Most model 3s dont even have the hardware for FSD.
Chances are 0% we will get FSD before the end of year.
But wait, he said it'd be 'feature complete' for some. We can't assume that
anyone made a legal and binding contract to deliver it as a finished product in Dec. 2019.
When I bought the Model 3, I got FSD knowing it would be slow to roll out, mebbe years.
You probably did too,
When I bought the FSD option, I did not expect to ever see level 4 or 5 autonomous driving. I bought it to have advanced driver assist and safety features.
Yes, me too. “Feature complete” was not defined by Musk as Level 5
Adjust your expectations on robo-taxi revenue in the near term. I think that pushing the robo-taxi narrative muddied the expectations for people.
Aing no way no how my little beauty will be pimped out for robo-stitution. Don’t trust strangers in my empty car.
I know it's hard to imagine. But the future depends on letting go of our personal association with cars. The sooner we start thinking about cars as transportation service vehicles the better.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - those are the sustainability fundamentals my kid is learning at elementary school. EVs are about reducing, next step is reuse (sharing cars)
Anyway, I tried both Turo and Uber-ing. It's not that bad.
In any case, when there is talk about robo-taxis and feature complete fsd, you can expect some people to mush up both those expectations together :)) FSD feature complete robo-taxis in 2020 ;)
I had a discussion with a college buddy who is a Tesla shareholder he was so convinced about everything Tesla, but he never drove the car on AP. I offered him a ride just to level-set expectations
I have reasonable expectations on FSD, which is a very optimistic and misleading term. Anyone with full autonomous driving expectations will be very disappointed. Tesla is definitely industry-leading, but every day I encounter situations that “self-driving” vehicles just can’t handle yet. Emergency vehicles, stopped school buses, school zone speed limits with varying schedules, poorly marked traffic lanes and confusing (even for humans) traffic patterns. Light rain and snow limits the vehicles’ ability to interpret traffic conditions. I love how my Model 3 has automated most of my driving.
I hope that stop sign & traffic light recognition get fully developed, but there are just so many variations on how those signals/signs are implemented, especially in different regions. I think most are simple to recognize for Tesla, but there are many that I’ve almost missed due to unusual or poor placement so how would I expect a computer to interpret those. I think many are setting themselves up for disappointment with their interpretations of FSD.
For me, I’m happy with FSD reducing the repetitive tasks for driving and letting me have a more relaxing drive, while being able to be more alert/attentive to danger. Automatic city driving is open to a lot of interpretation and I think we are technologically far from where many have set their expectations.
@ vmulla, I hear you, though I’m not personally in agreement with that whole philosophy.
(....that my property is inherently better used/shared as the property of another by mandate.)
amirhnaimi: [FLOCK]. Where? The same place the multitude of features that will comprise FSD have been since 2016. Being tested, refined, and verified behind the scenes, internally, at Tesla.
[GOLDURNIT]. Elon Musk did NOT say that all features of FSD would be released TO THE PUBLIC by the end of 2019. Numerous individuals, including yourself, have either misunderstood, or purposely ignored that fact. He has consistently said its full capabilities would be limited pending approval by government regulators.
So many of Tesla's Detractors speak often of their supposed 'wrecklessness', 'inattention to standard testing procedures', and 'irresponsibility' born of Elon Musk's impatience. They all say Tesla is 'just moving too fast' or 'doesn't know what they are doing'. And they have said that Elon Musk is 'crazy', 'insane', and 'unreasonable' time and again.
When I hear those protests, I hear two complaints as plaintive wails strewn into a narrative between the lines.
· Tesla is gonna KILL SOMEONE! They just CAN'T do this! It's IMPOSSIBLE!
· Tesla, could you PLEASE just SLOW DOWN, let everyone else catch up? You're making everyone else LOOK BAD! That's not fair! It's embarrassing. Like 'running up the score' in college football.
Well, the IMPOSSIBLE happens every day. People get used to that. It is the IMPROBABLE that they can't seem to wrap their minds around. Like the idea that a company that Experts, Pundits, ANALysts, Bear$, $#0r+§, FUDsters, and Trolls have said publicly would 'go out of business ... any day now' for the past TWELVE YEARS might become the first automobile manufacturer to offer fully autonomous cars for purchase by the public at large... SOON. IMPOSSIBLE! No. Just Improbable.
Ford Motor Co was founded One Hundred Years before Tesla. General Motors was founded Ninety-Five Years before Tesla. GM was PROUD to have Released the Chevrolet BOLT six-to-eight months before the Tesla Model 3 arrived. Yay?
In 1956, General Motors presented their vision of... 'The FUTURE!' which showed fully autonomous cars in use twenty years later, in 1976. So, those with imagination assumed that the application of ingenuity, innovation, and inventiveness would have been enough to enable self driving cars... forty three years ago. And that prediction was made sixty-three years ago. In case you are unaware of this historical happenstance...
GM Motorama Exhibit 1956 (8:45)https://youtu.be/Rx6keHpeYak
So, why is it OK for GM to be 43 YEARS LATE, but you question Tesla NOT being a year early with the same 'promise' of... 'The FUTURE!'...? Maybe because GM's 'promise' made 63 years ago was obviously just pure marketing material (AKA [BOLSHEVIK]) and 'everyone knew' that they shouldn't take it seriously...? Why must you crucify Tesla for being 'insincere' and intimate that 'FSD is a fraud' when 'marketing materials' from traditional conventional legacy ICE automobile manufacturers are often pure fantasy and fabrication?
I am a longtime 'car guy'. I was at the 1990 LA Auto Show when the GM IMPACT was unveiled. Pardon me for being gullible at twenty-three years old. But, keep in mind, I wasn't the only one 'fooled' by that presentation. GM declared they had technology much more advanced than anyone else in the automotive industry. They said they were closer to making electric cars reality than anyone else. They offered the IMPACT Show Car as evidence. And I believed them, because I wanted to. Because I was a fan of GM cars. Because I had wanted an electric car since I was six. And the California Air Resources Board (CARB) believed them too. Oops?
Because in fact, GM had NO INTENTION OF EVER RELEASING FULLY ELECTRIC CARS. They just wanted to market themselves as a cutting edge technology leader, and did too good a job. So, when CARB issued an order requiring they release a percentage of vehicles offered for sale within the Great State of California that were fully electric or otherwise zero emission vehicles by the end of the decade, GM complied by releasing the EV1, while simultaneously suing the ever-lovin' [SUGAR] out of CARB. The rest is history that has been covered here multiple times.
Bottom line? Perhaps you should hold traditional conventional legacy ICE automobile manufacturers to the same standards of immediacy that you impose on Tesla. Damn.
By mandate? Oh no, that would be awful. Voluntary or nothing.
The idea that it's better for our future if we stop using our cars as a expression/extension of our persona was shared by one of the Tesla folks. I can't remember who it was, I saw that video way back when I wasn't all that familiar with Tesla.
Clearly Tesla is doing everything possible to head into the direction of sharing cars, there's going to be some reluctance from the community but eventually I expect everyone will get comfortable - just like accepting EVs :)
I have expressed support for Tesla rental cars. That's because it gets us to share cars without waiting for full autonomy - and get revenue :)
I think that if we expect Level 3 autonomy, we will not be disappointed. Levels 4 and certainly Level 5 are very unlikely in the next few years, for all the reasons that @ModernTriDad mentioned and more.
@ rxlawdude, agree. Calibrate expectations.
@vmulla, ok, phew
FSD in short steps over a long time period has encouraged my application of the software to real-time driving in an “as learned” situation and has more than likely improved my driving. I feel safer on the road and same for others on the road.
I have experienced both the good and surprises to the cars reaction to some situations but by followings the Guidance set out by Tesla have stayed out of trouble. My level of knowledge and confidence has grown with time.
So....Tesla, keep it slow and let me learn by experience.
You missed the fine print that said "All times are expressed in Elon time coordinates"
Tired of the thread starters who post to disrupt and never return.
@CALVIN940 Disrupt what? I asked a question and just preferred to hear opinions about it. Do you have a problem with it? No one forced you to come here and getting "tired" of not seeing OP participates!
Well if you're following along, then respond to some of the questions rather than letting your thread spin out of control.
Like, when were you promised FSD?
vmulla - "I know it's hard to imagine. But the future depends on letting go of our personal association with cars."
I am most certainly with M3phan on this. While I would never try to argue the voracity of this statement in a broader sense, I can say that it is not true for me personally. And at my age that shouldn't present a problem.
But maybe I'll like the Cybertruck so much I can turn loose of the Model 3 a little.... who knows?
And for the OP, I would suggest frequenting the Teslarati website. They have news articles that address your question in some detail.
With the 3 one does not have to align with one kind of thought or an other (wrt sharing)
It's a great car to own AND but was designed from ground up for sharing.
I know we're drifting a bit off topic. But I'm hoping car rental kind of sharing from Tesla comes sooner and does not wait for FSD maturity.
rxlawdude | December 9, 2019
I think that if we expect Level 3 autonomy, we will not be disappointed. Levels 4
They release a video 6 months ago showing many people at the autonomy days doing the level 4 drive. Not sure how it is years away when they did it 6 months ago for many people.
That video is level 4...