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“maximum battery charging level reduced” alert

“maximum battery charging level reduced” alert

I have a 2013 Model S 60 with >200,000 miles on it. On Friday the display alerted me that “maximum battery charging level reduced.” Since then, it won’t charge much more than about 55-60 miles. Submitted for an appointment for Tesla service but it seems i won’t get to the service center until end of the month at the earliest. I was hoping for my car to last for another 3 Years but I’m fearing the worst (battery failure requiring replacement). Since I’m way out of warranty, anyone have any idea what it might cost?? If it’s much more than $5k I think I’d rather it go into a new Tesla. Ideally it would be a Model Y but I doubt that i can get one with 6-9 months!

reed_lewis | 05/01/2020

Did you create an appointment anyways? Typically the triage people will look and investigate and should contact you if you are truly in a non drivable car.

I have had a few times when I have created an appointment and they contact me the next day.

It sucks that the original 60 kWh battery is warranted only for 125k miles.

PrescottRichard | 05/01/2020

200k miles on a 60? Nice job!

Please post the outcome, I hadn’t seen anyone report a situation like that so I’m curious. My hope for you is that you can get some credit for the parts of your battery that aren’t broken and pay the difference. I’ve seen quite a few model S 60 cars being resold by Tesla now as 75s. Didn’t realize that was what was happening until I pulled up pics of the actual cars. So maybe the solution will be to buy up to a 75 battery for now? Surely that will be more than $5k without some kind of credit for what is good in your current battery.

Good luck!

SoCal Buzz | 05/01/2020

@qphan, from a recent thread on TMC, Tesla is charging $11K to replace a MS 60 battery. They did not offer upgrade to a 75.

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

Thanks for the info @SoCal Buzz!

GoldAK47 | 06/01/2020

Yea, you are at the end of battery life. Once one of the cells drops off, the entire pack becomes useless. Sort of...there are a group in parallel, one cell in that group will drag them down and find other weak cells in that group. Once that group dips below certain voltage, you get that message.

If it was me, I would try charging to 100% to try to get it to balance a little. It wont fix it, it cant be fixed without replacing cells....but it may buy some time. Do not discharge below 50% or so....try to keep it in 70%-80% range.

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

Thanks for the explanation! A bit too late for me, I was down to about 35 miles as I was driving to work when it happened. It wouldn’t charge past about 60 miles when I get home. I just got back from dropping the car off at the service center now. They were able to squeeze me in. I’m expecting the worst now but we shall see when they finish running the diagnostics.

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

Just got the estimate...$17k to replace the battery!!

PrescottRichard | 06/01/2020

Ouch. Was that for another 60?

Can you treat yourself to a nice new Raven S? Or at least a used one with a warranty!

S75RedRidingHood | 06/01/2020

May be you could find someone to test out the bad module and replace it/them, currently the module cost about $1000 each.

Bighorn | 06/01/2020

Sounds like you may need to consult the tinkerers who are replacing battery packs. Where do you live?

amit.pec | 06/01/2020

I had the same error message displayed "maximum battery charging level reduced" on my Tesla Model S P85 (2013 model) on 01/03/2020 while charging at home. It has about 98K miles on it. I have scheduled a mobile appointment over the weekend and my local Tesla service center already contacted me and asked for more info which I provided. I 'll update as I hear more from Tesla.

akikiki | 06/01/2020

So, it looks like the difference between amit.pec getting his replaced under warranty - maybe, and qphan79 not comes down to amit.pec's 85 battery and qphan79's 60.

Am I reading is right?

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

@akikiki...yup, I was pretty disappointed that us S60 owners weren’t given the “unlimited miles warranty” way back in 2013 when they did so for S85 owners. Oh well, don’t want to sound too entitled! @bighorn, I’m in Southern California, how would I get in touch with someone that does such a thing? Haven’t had much luck with Google.

Bighorn | 06/01/2020

The guys who quickly come to mind are Jason Hughes in Hickory, NC and a Rich Rebuilds near Boston. I’m sure there must be a CA corollary. Look around or inquire over at TMC. A couple outfits I hadn’t heard of reached out to me there, over a dead MCU rebuild. I suspect you’d discover your local battery options fairly quickly.

akikiki | 06/01/2020

TonY on TMC is doing the eMMC rebuilds right now. But I think he will work on batteries. He's in LA area.

akikiki | 06/01/2020

Sorry that's TonyT

akikiki | 06/01/2020

I just sent TonyT a message on TMC. We'll see if he's doing battery work.

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

Thanks for the tips guys! Jason Hughes must be the guy on eBay who lists battery upgrades. I actually sent him a message to inquire if he would be in purchasing my car in its current condition! Already thinking of how I’m going to fund my next Tesla!

akikiki | 06/01/2020

Aren't you on the other side of the country from Jason? How you gonna get the car there?

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

Not sure! His listing says they would arrange for shipping and transport.

Bighorn | 06/01/2020

Yes, Jason has been marketing batteries and upgrades on eBay for years. TonyT from OC reached out to me. Wasn’t sure if his prowess extended to batteries.

Bighorn | 06/01/2020

Somewhere in SoCal

akikiki | 06/01/2020

qphan79, I heard back from TonyT. He's in San Diego. Email him. evfixme at gmail
He can do a battery replacement.

qphan79 | 06/01/2020

Wow, you are awesome! Will reach out to him, much thanks!

akikiki | 06/01/2020

You are welcome. Let us know how it goes, please.

Bighorn | 07/01/2020

Nice follow through, akikiki!

Goose | 07/01/2020

I love this place.

PrescottRichard | 07/01/2020

Please do post through your experience qphan79, sooner or later we will all be out of warranty.

Renzo | 07/01/2020

@qphan79 Would you mind sharing more details about your charging habits during the time you have been driving your Model S? I have a 2013 60 but I purchased it used from Tesla a year ago with 60k miles, so I am interested in your charging habits to try to mitigate your issue happening to me at over 200K Miles.

Thank you!

eggbert747 | 07/01/2020

What I'd be worried about is $17K for a potentially refurnished battery pack. And I'd wonder about the warranty. 8 years, would be good, 1 year would be a major concern. I have a 2014 85S and $17K would be 1/2 the value of the car. Tough decision, and ultimately many of us will be is this situation. Tesla will be in a very uncomfortable place if and when 1000's of older cars are quoted around $20K to make the car drivable again. At least battery costs are coming down somewhat.

Mathew98 | 07/01/2020

They quoted $17K for a single customer who upgraded from S60 to a new 85 KW battery pack. It was the only case reported in the last 5 years.

It makes no sense for them to charge the same amount for a refurbished pack, especially for a smaller one, 5 years later.

akikiki | 07/01/2020

Bighorn, Thank you. Your comment means a lot to me.

qphan79 | 07/01/2020

Hi Renzo, what kind of total range are you getting for your car? I honestly babied my car most of her life, in terms of charging. I never super charged as it wasn’t enabled. In my garage, it charges at night using the standard cable. I used to charge it at 24 amps until I get the Model 3. Since then, it’s been charging at only 18 amps each night while the model charges at 14 amps so that I don’t blow out my subpanel.

When new, my car charged up to a max range of about 205 miles. Pretty much within the first month I was noticing that max range started decreasing. Took it into Tesla and was told it was normal, was due to my driving habits, etc. I didn’t complain too much more but up until last week, my max range was down to about 170 miles. So about 17-18% degradation. It’s been my commuter car and my daily drive was about 110 miles. So roughly each day it was being charged to 90% and i drove it down to 20-25%. Tried the 100% calibration tips a few times but other than that, I hardly charged more than 90%. Usually it would be to 93-5% if I get like I need to go farther than usual and needed more buffer for the day.

qphan79 | 07/01/2020

Oh btw, my drive train had been making high pitched sounds when I accelerate for a while. Tesla service says that drive train is still under warranty and it’s being fixed/replaced. I told them I’m declining the $17k battery replacement for now while I weigh my options. Still waiting to hear back from Tony about his estimated costs. Honestly though, I’m just hoping Tesla sales will give me decent value as a trade in and I’ll upgrade to a Model 3. Otherwise, I’ll see what I can get as a private seller as I’m sure someone out there is interested in picking up a Tesla at a relative bargain!

Bighorn | 08/01/2020

@akikiki
Totally deserving.

Just ran across this trying to help someone else out. Seems rather pertinent:)
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/80nkz7/hsr_motors_model_s_...

xwang043 | 09/01/2020

Hello qphan79. I am under the same boat, been down for almost a month. Havent made any moves yet really. I believe my friend Tony reached out to you already. Please give me a call at your convenience today so i can ask you a few questions on how i should proceed.

Renzo | 09/01/2020

@qphan79 thank you for getting back to me. Currently my max range is 184-186 with 81,295 miles on the odometer. I am wondering if in electric car terms "babying" your car actually does damage as well, you know what I mean? battery chemistry is so complex... but I wonder if when people are TOO careful with their battery it also has a negative effect. I know that the OPTIMAL level for the battery is to be at 50% but no know knows really whats the best charging habit level or habit that will yield the best results. We know not to charge above 90 on a regular basis... but we are also told not let it sit at too low... its complicated. I hope if my battery is going to crap out.. it happens in 2020!! (i have one year left in warranty).

Bighorn | 09/01/2020

@Renzo
Service centers in the early days were noting better battery performance in cars ridden hard and put away wet. Probably partly due to loss of battery calibration in lightly used cars.

Renzo | 11/01/2020

@bighorn, my apologies not 100% percent understanding, I am sure I know what you being by "cars ridden hard" but what do you mean by "and put away wet" as in plugged in with VERY low battery? like a low SOC? thank you for the clarification.

s.grot | 11/01/2020

Can’t wait for the explanation.....

Bighorn | 11/01/2020

lol, grot:)

Just an expression (about horses) connoting using something aggressively without a lot of regard for the accepted rules of care and maintenance. I didn’t have a specific vision for the manifestation with Tesla, but I would run mine constantly on superchargers for weeks on end, 24 hours a day without regard to charging guidelines beyond the need at hand which could mean charging to 100% repeatedly or arriving at the next SC with a few percent. I think another example would be the Tesloop taxi that was running 17k miles a month with chronic supercharging that only saw 6% range loss in 200k miles before they saw a charging anomaly.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-origin-of-the-phrase-rode-hard-and-put...

Renzo | 13/01/2020

Ah... Thank you BH for explaining this. If I am to put some logic to the Tesloop usage of their Tesla's I would have to deduce that maybe as long as batteries as being either charging or draining... then they can go for a while, I think the problem are folks like myself in that I only have a 40 mile round trip commute daily, and so I cannot cycle the battery. I think that is probably what is most detrimental, the leaving of the battery at ANY state of charge that is not 50% for any long period of time... I just cross my fingers I don't get a 17K bill for a battery replacement, hopefully when my pack decides to die then the cost of the batteries will be at a more affordable price.

Bighorn | 13/01/2020

@Renzo
I don’t think there’s a penalty for keeping the battery in a narrow charging band unless it’s very a low or very high SOC. Tesloop was advised not to charge past 95% or while hot.

GoldAK47 | 13/01/2020

Below 50% isnt the most detrimental, being at 100% is. Being at 2% isnt a big deal, because that is no where near actual 2%...its more like 20%. You do not want to "cycle" the battery very often, that was only NiMh. Fast charging and 100% charge are the biggest killers.

Renzo | 13/01/2020

well I can tell you both that i dont have to worry about FAST charging... because my supercharging MAX has been limited to 50kW and then it QUICKLY goes to 30kW... so I am not worrying about supercharging since its not at the 120kW that others are getting... but I supercharge maybe 3 times a year anyways when I take a trip to Orlando (I live in south Florida)

GoldAK47 | 13/01/2020

Yep, thats not hurting anything at those rates.

There is always the possibility of bad cells, even under perfect charging and usage habits. They just go bad. The one thing that helps tesla, is that they have so many in parallel it keeps the bad ones propped up. You see it in performance, and all is well until they just fully cave. Then the warnings come up. I believe 3.15v is the trigger, I could be remembering wrong though. So if any hit that number, warnings come on. At zero miles you should be around 3.5v per cell for comparison.

Yodrak. | 13/01/2020

"I think the problem are folks like myself in that I only have a 40 mile round trip commute daily, and so I cannot cycle the battery."

How does a 40-mile round-trip commute prevent you from cycling the battery? I have a 34-mile round-trip commute, and I cycle my Model S battery between 80 and ~20 percent.

Renzo | 14/01/2020

@Yodrak, I am no battery expert, I can only rely on what I usually read on this forum and TMC forum, but what folks have share is that to properly cycle the battery you need to run it from lets say 80% to 20% in one trip. I used to charge to 80% and with my commute I would simply not charge one night and the second night when i would get home I would be at around 20% as well but what that means is that one night the car is sitting in the garage with no charge just... off... and that does not help the idea of calibrating the battery so that its more precise.

At least that was my understanding. So if you are cycling your battery from 80% to 20% with a 34 mile round trip commute I would guess its because you go one night without charging, which from what I have read is not REALLY cycling the battery.
What I do now is charge to 60% because I read on TMC that a new research paper was published that demonstrated that at any SOC level above 60% microscopic fractures of something happened.. I was about to explain further but I do not have the knowledge to properly explain it so I do not want to dig myself in a hole I cannot get out of LOL...

Bighorn | 14/01/2020

@Renzo
There’s no requirement that an 80 20 cycling need be one trip. It could be done over a week

Renzo | 16/01/2020

Can someone throw me a ladder so i can climb out this HOLE I dug for myself, LOL.
You are correct, I was referring to cycling specifically for the purpose of calibrating the battery, which may affect the maximum charge level you are seeing.

hope that cleared it up? lol

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