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Trump killed the electric car

Trump killed the electric car

I am curious to know if you think the EV movement is strong enough to survive if Trump is elected president of the United States. The oil industry lobbyists will probably have a free pass to power and it will probably be the end of the incentives for EV'S. How about a special tax for EV owners....

Please be courteous....

jordanrichard | 13/05/2016

I think because of what Tesla has accomplished with changing the image of EVs, tax incentives will have less of an impact on one's purchase decisions.

Another thing to remember, a President can't just pass what ever law he/she wants. There are checks and balances in place.

SCCRENDO | 13/05/2016

I doubt he will harm but he certainly won't help. However he has the potential to hurt our country every which way. Could end up making Bush look like a saint.

warren_tran | 13/05/2016

I'm more worry if Trump become POTUS that nuclear warhead is accessible to him.

There goes for all of those making 10 threads about AGW. There are bigger issues you need to worry about such as meteor, tsunami, big earthquake , and volcanoes eruption.

Ross1 | 13/05/2016

No it won't survive.
Trump as POTUS is the 2nd biggest threat to the world.

But will Elon save the planet?
Watch this space as they don their Superman suits for the galactic battle...

vp09 | 13/05/2016

Maybe not-- Trump and Musk are both billionaires, self-made, a lot in common.
Trump likes "made in America" and Musk is delivering that.
Trump says "make America great again." Musk has made driving great again.
Neither Trump nor Musk is in the pocket of the energy companies.

vp09 | 13/05/2016

mille I'm curious why you imply that Trump would kill EVs--- why are you saying that-- does he have something against EVs, or something in favor of ICEs?

I am asking honestly, because I don't know one way or the other. Please educate me.

Does Trump favor oil lobbyists? I do know that he's financed his own campaign, rather than taking money from oil companies, but again, maybe you know something I don't.

I am asking honestly, because I've read a bit on the candidates, and you're bringing up something that I've not seen (for example, not discussed on realclearpolitics dot com).

SCCRENDO | 13/05/2016

@vp. You thinking is pretty simplistic. Yes they are billionaires but that's where the comparison ends. Musk wants to save the planet and decrease AGW whereas Trump is a climate change denier. I don't think Trump wants to destroy the world but away if Putin pisses him off. He could send off those nukes and then say he didn't really mean it because he really likes Putin.

Al1 | 13/05/2016

I am not supporter of Trump, but a president that clearly "couldn't" is really a bad choice. You don't want to make Russians believe you couldn't, because they wish they could.

SCCRENDO | 13/05/2016

No you don't want to make Putin believe you could.

Ross1 | 13/05/2016

Putin all your eggs in one basket.

eric.zucker | 14/05/2016

For those who studied French, my play on words:

"Ne vous Trumpez pas"

SamO | 14/05/2016

Trump doesn't have the power to kill a cockroach, let alone the best car company in the world.

SCCRENDO | 14/05/2016

@Samo. With a Repulican congress he can potentially get rid of all subsidies for EVs and solar panels. Could make life more difficult but not likely to kill it

Al1 | 14/05/2016

Sun and wind can survive without subsidies. Coal and oil can't. The focus should be on eliminating subsidies on fossil fuels.

MitchP85D | 14/05/2016

Tesla is too strong of a product. It will survive free market completion. It doesn't need subsidies. I would have bought my MS60 and P85D with or without the EV tax incentive. I think all Trump will do is make it easier for the general public to buy a Tesla with their own money, instead of with other people's money. Musk will make it easier too, because he is making his product more affordable to the general public.

Bottom line, NO. Trump will NOT destroy the EV.

Mike83 | 14/05/2016

Tired of the Trump in the news; very unlikely he will win a general election. I know the billionaires would love more tax breaks from the trump so you see too much news in the media about this. End of the Republican party and good riddance.

MitchP85D | 14/05/2016

Dream on Mike83. There are 31 republican governors, 18 democrat governors, and one independent. Republicans also control 70% of all state legislatures. Red State America is here to stay with or without the presidency.

SamO | 14/05/2016

That's the funniest thing Mitch has ever written, and that's saying something.

BTW Bernie DESTROYS Trump in a head to head. Oh I can't wait for your cognitive dissonance of Trump losing to a (democratic) socialist.

Gerrymandering does not equal mandate.

Mike83 | 14/05/2016

Living in California, the 7th largest economy in the world is the best place for me. The poor loser red States are none of my concern. The voters select their leaders and get to live with it. I'm sticking with the free Democratic progressive States with less corruption and monopolistic fossil fuel interests. I like real American Capitalism where the little guy can still make it.

MitchP85D | 14/05/2016

So Mike83, why are so damn many of y'all moving to Texas?!!!

Mike83 | 14/05/2016

Some missionaries but no one I know.

vp09 | 14/05/2016

SCCRENDO: " ... Musk wants to save the planet and decrease AGW whereas Trump is a climate change denier."

Thanks-- now I see the basis for the concern about a President Trump and EVs. I know that a lot of EV enthusiasts want to save the planet, but I'll bet a lot of Tesla owners are also driving that car for a lot of other reasons.

Look at where Trump stands on keeping jobs here or bringing jobs here-- Elon Musk could be his poster boy for that campaign.

Mitch, I loved your " I think all Trump will do is make it easier for the general public to buy a Tesla with their own money, instead of with other people's money." Makes me smile. Thanks.

Mike83 | 14/05/2016

This is the most revealing story I've seen about Trump. Putin and the oil economy would welcome another anti-democratic authoritarian but they are dreaming.
http://www.inquisitr.com/3096084/mural-showing-donald-trump-kissing-vlad...

Al1 | 14/05/2016

I can very well see why Lithuania is scared. Putin would love another reset. While Trump doesn't look as spineless as Obama did in 2008, he may well turn US foreign policy upside down and that could create another window of opportunity for Putin's next move which may well be Lithuania.

He doesn't need much time at all. In six months it will be "fait accompli". Both his incursions into Georgia in 2008 and in Ukraine in 2014 were prepared well ahead of time, waiting for window of opportunity.

Al1 | 14/05/2016

In case of Baltic States he has relatively large Russian speaking population in Latvia, which of course needs his "protection".

RedShift | 14/05/2016

Hey Mitch,

Lot of people move to TX because real estate is so damn expensive in California. You know, market forces. More desirable the product higher the price. That says something about the product that is available in TX doesn't it! :-)

brando | 14/05/2016

GM/Ford won't allow "EV tax credit" to go away.

https://en.wikipedia DOT org/wiki/Government_incentives_for_plug-in_electric_vehicles

https://en.wikipedia DOT org/wiki/Government_incentives_for_plug-in_electric_vehicles#United_States

SCCRENDO | 14/05/2016

@vp. Many of us early adopters got into EVs because we understand. The brilliance of Elon is that he has sucked in climate deniers and climate ignorant individuals by producing a cool car. Tesla itself and most of the rest are pleased for you guys to join the club even for the wrong reason. Mitch is full of it at times. Although he claims to be a denier he does the right thing and obviously has the finances to cover it. The real challenge is with Mr. Average Joe who doesn't have the money. They have to be lured in. Short of giving them free cars we need to provide adequate incentives to make EVs affordable.

SCCRENDO | 14/05/2016

@vp. Trump is a sleazeball. Who knows what he will do. But who wants to take a chance. One can only hope that he doesn't screw things up too much. Best to stay clear.

drax7 | 15/05/2016

If it's made in America and it wins, trump is all for it.
American companies that import their manufactured products ,
They might be at a disadvantage .

Trump is a pragmatist, not an ideologue ala Obama

Dofpic | 15/05/2016

I purchased my 70D because it is a great car that I love driving. I did not buy it to save the planet or for tax incentives. We should eliminate all tax incentives for oil. solar, wind, nuclear EV's milk, corn, soybeans etc. The tax payers should not subsidize any industry groups in any way. Great products will survive regardless of who is president. Tesla will continue to do great because they make the best car in the world and because they have built out the charging infrastructure. The other E.V.'s I am not so sure because they are inferior and have no charging structure like tesla. Competition brings us the consumer the best products at the best price that if great like Tesla will continue to thrive.

Drdpharris | 15/05/2016

That works for consumer goods, but does not work for larger and longer outlook goals. It is difficult to match incentives to goals such that there are no unintended consequences. Subsidized industries are often propped up past their due date, such that stopping the subsidies causes grief to employees and communities.

I think EMs 'secret plan' of introducing expensive low-volume cars, to develop their related technologies and then working towards inexpensive high-volume cars is a great strategy. Model 3s are still too expensive for most people, but they will help showcase the technology and will lead to even less expensive electric vehicles.

Drdpharris | 15/05/2016

That works for consumer goods, but does not work for larger and longer outlook goals. It is difficult to match incentives to goals such that there are no unintended consequences. Subsidized industries are often propped up past their due date, such that stopping the subsidies causes grief to employees and communities.

I think EMs 'secret plan' of introducing expensive low-volume cars, to develop their related technologies and then working towards inexpensive high-volume cars is a great strategy. Model 3s are still too expensive for most people, but they will help showcase the technology and will lead to even less expensive electric vehicles.

Dramsey | 15/05/2016

Redshift, as I'm sure you know, it's not just "market forces" keeping real estate prices high in CA. It's zoning laws, rent control, and years of plowing through regulatory red tape to get anything built.

I mean, unless you're _proud_ of an environment that keeps real estate prices so high that 50-mile commutes from affordable communities are the norm...which contributes to massive CO2 emissions, migraine-inducing traffic, etc...

SCCRENDO | 15/05/2016

Please all you guys are supporting clean energy and can afford the Tesla. The point you guys continue to miss is that this is not about starting a car company. It's about cleaning up the air. You guys may not believe or understand that but frankly you guys are out of step. We still like you for supporting EVs for whatever reason. However in order to bring EVs to the masses assistance is needed. You guys protest because you don't understand the real mission

MitchP85D | 15/05/2016

Hey SCCRENDO, remember when EM rolled out the Model 3? He said that what paved the way for the Model 3 was people like you and me buying the Roadster, Model-S, and Model-X. I don't know how the heck we are out of step. We are investing in Tesla for various reasons. There does not have to be ONE REASON to buy Tesla product and/or stock. The important thing is that the investment is made. And the more private that investment is, the more enduring Tesla will be.

RedShift, most people I know look for the BEST VALUE for their dollar. Maybe THAT explains why so many Californians are moving to Texas!

vp09, always glad to see a fellow Freedom Thinker in the Tesla Forum!

SCCRENDO | 15/05/2016

@Mitch. I have repeatedly applauded you for your support of Tesla. And yes you are supporting Tesla's mission. I am concerned about those who cannot afford a Tesla. It's the reason where we are out of step. This is unimportant in your case but if everyone took that attitude Teslas would only be sold if they appealed to your "tastes" rather than mass adoption which is Elon's and in fact my goal.

Mel. | 15/05/2016

SCCRENDO,
Could you please explain how you think Trump killed the electric car..? It sounds like you do not have a grip on reality .
Now , as an immigrant you should understand a little of the Constitution. Many Americans born here do not. Congress does play a part in new laws.da.
I know that you know that Republicans gave us the tan credits for electric cars And you do know that Bush is the father of the modern electri vehicle. It does not put you in a good light for you to say silly thinks. I really think you are smarter than that, but you have let your emotions get the better of you.
Sorry for the long rant , I hope you still support Tesla.

RedShift | 15/05/2016

Ramsey,

Without underlying consumer demand, no real estate market could be this valuable.

Whether or not I am 'proud' of it. I understand that few strata can't afford to live here. Yet they won't move away, no? This is free market. Something you folks get wet dreams about!

RedShift | 15/05/2016

Mitch,

Most people looking for best value for their dollar is why real estate is still so high in demand in California.

Some of my buddies in high tech moved a few years ago, but half returned. (More or less half)

Heat, boredom, and recently, the counter progressive and controversial state government decisions were quoted as reasons, in that order. The fact they moved from a low cost real estate market back to one of the most expensive, is telling.

Red state huh? Rest of America simply doesn't care about poor subsidy sinks and gerrymandered phony state. It wants to move forward, technologically and socially, while caring for the environment.

Red state can continue its cognitive dissonance driven, illogical war on women, talking about a stupid wall, and starting new wars.

SCCRENDO | 15/05/2016

@Mel. What are you talking about? Have you actually read this thread? I am a strong supporter of Elon. have 89000 miles on my Model S and 2 Model 3s on order. The question posed by the OP was whether Trump will kill the Electric car. Trump is a total sleazeball and not a supporter of EVs. Yes I understand the constitution and that' why he may not kill it on his own. However I don't think we would consider him a friend of EVs.

What the Bushes did is actually irrelevant to this discussion but to be frank I don't know who provided the initial tax credits and who was the father of the electric car. If it was a Republican president I applaud them. But at least knowing Bush junior I doubt was EV friendly and I'm guessing if it was on his watch it wasn't him directly. His attitude at the Kyoto agreement says it all.

So like all the anti-climate change deniers please educate with with facts by providing links not personal divine assertions

Sparky | 15/05/2016

Elon Musk, an immigrant, is making America great again.

Donald Trump is making America GRATE again.

In the end, the American people will elect the President they deserve, the world will keep turning, and the EV revolution will continue because that which is unsustainable will not be sustained.

EmpiricalAudio | 15/05/2016

Trump, and the Republican congress are both enemies of the planet. If we get ANY Republican president, we are in deep shit. Itwill set back the gains we have made already in reducing greenhouse gasses. The CO2 in the lower atmosphere has been reduced to 2005 levels by conversions to natural gas plants. The improved mileage of ICE cars (thanks to Obama administration) along with the recession improved the transportation emissions in the US for a few years, but it is on the rise again. In the next few years, the emissions from cars in the US will overtake the emissions from power plants. The relative emissions are very close right now.

People in the US think the problem is power plants and not cars. The truth is that its both. The EV is our best hope to reduce CO2 transportation emissions. If we can at least start reducing emission levels, we have a chance of holding the warming and extreme weather at its current levels. What people dont get is that it takes 10's to100's of years to make it warm on the planet, but 1000's to 10,000's of years to cool it down again.

The other things that are in jeopardy if the pres is Republican are:

Cuts in welfare benefits that will hurt most single parent families
many veterans benefits will be impacted
forget about making headway in heathcare coverage or costs
lots of research that the federal labs do will be unfunded. Better not get cancer because there will be fewer cures
FEMA and NIH will be underfunded, so for disasters and plagues, you are on your own, get the states to do something
College costs and upward mobility for the poor will just get worse
The real workers in this country, the hispanics, will be deported, so the rest of the people will have to learn to work hard. Never happen.
God knows whqt will happen to medicare, medicaid and SS

This is the most wasteful country on the planet, and the workforce is the laziest. Work ethic is pathetic. Education level is pathetic. These things are immediately obvious when you see how many in the US are actually wanting Trump for president. The other developed countries in Europe and Asia are apalled that so many would support such a barbarian. We truly are the "ugly americans" that we hear about. It makes me personally ashamed to be an American. That is why I didnt hesitate to "invest" in the infrastructure for EV's by purchasing a Tesla. This type of grassroots change has to start with individuals like me.

The only chance we have to correct these things is a Democratic president and congress. There are serious misconceptions about China and what they are doing. People say "show me that China is doing something radical and then I'll consider supportingit the US. Well, if you had been paying attention, you would know thqt China is actually doing more than we are in the US. Virtually every commercial building has either solar hot water or electrical collectors onthe roof in the cities. Beijing is converting all coal fired plants to natgas by the end of this year. They have thousands of young people in the streets objecting to nuclear power and forcing clean power options.

Governments dont have political will to do these things, even in Europe. We certainly dont have the political will here to do shit. Thank god that Obama is using every tool in his toolbox to help the situation. It's not enough though. We need to get out and make it happen ourselves.

EmpiricalAudio | 15/05/2016

There are almost 500,000 EV cars, trucks and buses in China. About 250,000 EV cars in the US. I think they have a good start. Netherlands has legislation that just passed one house banning all ICE vehicles by 2050.

For the civilized world, Trump will be an out-lyer, wanting to bolster the coal industry and more fossil fuel exploration. The factory jobs of the 1950's just dont exist anymore, and he knows this. He will say anything to get elected.

SCCRENDO | 15/05/2016

@Empical Auto, Sparky. +1

Thanks for restoring some sanity to this thread after Mel's little interlude.

Dofpic | 15/05/2016

POLITICS= Poly=Many Tics=Blood suckers..Of course both side do it and both sides say whatever they can to get elected. This is not a democrat or republican thing, it is not a liberal or conservative thing. It is a politician thing. Both sides are equal opportunity liars. Anybody out there that thinks "their"side does not do it or does it less is fooling themselves.

Great technologies without government involvement always have to start with us rich guys first and with a free market the prices will come down to meet the demand with innovation over time. Think cell phones.There was no big government program to push it and it started in the 1970's with only the rich. EV's will be the same. So model S then X then model 3 and probably model 1 will be for the masses. You guys waiting for a model 3 or a cheaper version need to thank guys like MitchP85D. Because without guys like him, there would be no model 3 or 1 no matter what the government does.

vp09 | 15/05/2016

Emp Aud: You wrote "The factory jobs of the 1950's just dont exist anymore, and he knows this. He will say anything to get elected."

Right on no more jobs at Ford's Highland Park plant, bolting doors on Fairlanes.

Not so sure on the rest. I read an article on Realclearpolitics dot com today. It showed an Ohio tire plant that was coming back to work. It had closed down because of Chinese cheaper work. Now here in Ohio, that factory is coming back to work.

Donald Trump didn't do that. Something else happened. I don't know what. But I do know that Elon Musk is building the best car in the world in California, of all places. If Elon can run a business in California, and Ohio can re-open a tire factory, tell me why Donald Trump can't promise to bring jobs back.

vp09 | 15/05/2016

Emp Aud, you wrote "you would know thqt China is actually doing more than we are in the US. Virtually every commercial building has either solar hot water or electrical collectors onthe roof in the cities."

We had that in Southern California 100 years ago. Passive solar collectors. Every roof. They were inferior to natural gas water heating, and the market drove them out.

vp09 | 15/05/2016

Yo Emp: You wrote: "Thank god that Obama is using every tool in his toolbox to help the situation. It's not enough though."

President Kennedy put a man on the moon.

President Obama put men in women's restrooms.

SCCRENDO | 15/05/2016

@vp. And Trump will put Nukes in Japan, South Korea and drop a few in the Middle East. He will put the coal-miners back to work producing more coal to pollute the environment. He will improve our infrastructure by building a 2000 mile wall along the Mexican border. He will ban the EPA so new industries can open up without concern for polluting our rivers. He will increase government employment by hiring immigration officials to round up 11 million Mexicans and anyone else who is visiting. Prefer men in women's restrooms.

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