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China tells Trump climate change is no hoax it invented.

China tells Trump climate change is no hoax it invented.

It was negotiated since the 80's by his Republican predecessors. Remember when we say China was the big bad wolf that generated all those green house gases and refused to corporate on their reduction? Now our next President has to be lectured by China. How time changes.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/china-tells-trump-that...

SCCRENDO | 17/11/2016

@Carlk. Thanks for posting. Good article

Mike83 | 17/11/2016

What a circus this has become. What people say and what they think are not always the same. Facts don't change ever.
Feelings do fluctuate and if based on lies progress is halted.

Remnant | 17/11/2016

The Chinese are hypocrites.

They should not pontificate on climate before they catch up with the US in carbon emissions.

SCCRENDO | 17/11/2016

@remnant. The Chinese are trying pretty hard but they are starting from much further back, so they have a lot of catching up to do. The US is starting to do pretty well, no thanks to the climate change deniers, but we are entering a time when we could suffer severe setbacks.

carlk | 17/11/2016

@Remnant

China produces more total carbon emission but US produces way more per capital carbon emission than China or anyone else even though a lot of emission generating manufacturing has been moved out of the US. That has always been the sticking point of the negotiation. The point in is still China agrees now to share her responsibility for the agreed upon goal but The US now is the problem.

lilbean | 17/11/2016

China is busy making crap for the US, the biggest consumers of crap on the planet.

SCCRENDO | 17/11/2016
McLary | 17/11/2016

Can someone please explain to me how a doubling of CO2 by China over the next 13 years amounts to progress that should be celebrated? China continues to build coal fired plants with no end in sight.

@SCCRENDO California is doing particularly well. They are poised to increase the use of coal fired power by a huge amount around 2020. You should be proud.

Mike83 | 17/11/2016

So many opinions without any facts. Hilarious.

SCCRENDO | 17/11/2016

McLary. Do you mean California or China. Here is both. I agree that China could do more but its a start
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environment/china-coal...
http://www.energy.ca.gov/renewables/tracking_progress/documents/current_...

SCCRENDO | 17/11/2016

Here are both

Mike83 | 17/11/2016
Dramsey | 17/11/2016

Well, that's what they'd say, isn't it?

Dramsey | 17/11/2016

Also, bear in mind that China is building new coal plants at a furious pace:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-13/china-seen-investing-t...

SCCRENDO | 17/11/2016
The flying hippie | 18/11/2016

lilbean "China is busy making crap for the US, the biggest consumers of crap on the planet."

More accurately, the US is busy making crap for the US in China. Out of sight, out of mind.

lilbean | 18/11/2016

@flying hippie, Yes! Thank you. That is a very important clarification. +1000

carlk | 18/11/2016

@Dramsey No one is defending China but are we going to go this low as to compete with China for who is the worst?

@The flying hippie Absolutely. Not sure now but Walmart once accounted for 5~6% of China's total GDP. And you know who shop at Walmart the most? People in the middle America who voted for Trump.

Tesla-David | 18/11/2016

While China is certainly the greatest consumer of coal, they at least recognize the problem, and are working to back away from coal generated energy. The people who are concerned about the health impacts are putting immense pressure on the government to act.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/business/energy-environment/china-coal...

Bighorn | 18/11/2016

US CO2 emissions per capita is more than twice that of China, before we get too pious.

TeslaTap.com | 18/11/2016

@SCCRENDO - Thanks for the good article on coal production in the USA. Interesting that the chart (Figure 2) showing in-state electric generation from coal in 2015 looks a lot like the election map. The heaviest coal using states (middle and south) went with Trump and the states least dependant on coal went with Hilary. Not sure what to make of that.

I was surprised to see that California gets 6% of it's commercial electrical energy from coal (from plants outside California). It's expected to decline to zero by 2026. It looks like the study doesn't include residential solar which would further reduce the percent of energy by coal used in California.

Tropopause | 18/11/2016

This year China surpassed the USA as the biggest consumer of BEV's. They are more serious about getting off ICE and will lead the BEV revolution if the USA doesn't get serious (besides Tesla). Thankfully Tesla will benefit from China's BEV needs especially after Tesla has a China factory partner.

carlk | 18/11/2016

May not be all because they want to be green but China realized EV and renewable energy is the next frontier that they might have a chance to leap frog and take a lead. German too when it is trying to go all green I believe. It's a relatively small country it won't put that much of a dent on environment but they want to encourage their industries to take the lead by going green themselves first. It's like the autobahn is largely responsible for German's dominance in high performance cars. Fortunately we have Tesla and SolarCity but unfortunately we don't what the next President will do.

carlk | 18/11/2016

...we don't know what the next President will do...

Tropopause | 18/11/2016

If Ron Baron's prediction, that Tesla will become one of the largest companies in the world, comes true then the USA will be just fine.

lilbean | 18/11/2016

+1 @Bighorn

Tesla-David | 19/11/2016

+1 @Bighorn

EaglesPDX | 19/11/2016

@Remnant "They [China] should not pontificate on climate before they catch up with the US in carbon emissions."

China's per capita greenhouse gas emissions 7.6 tons year.
US per capita greenhouse gas emissions 16.4 tons year

Ignorant people in US should not lecture China on greenhouse gas emissions until US catches up in emissions.

lilbean | 19/11/2016

+1 @eaglespdx

Bighorn | 19/11/2016

Copycat

lilbean | 19/11/2016

Haha

SCCRENDO | 19/11/2016

@Eagles +1

RedShift | 19/11/2016

I just bought a pair of lighted tops at a Chinese shop (you, know one of those in an all Chinese complexes).
It's a cool toy made up of a weighted but balanced flywheel, lighted LEDs and 3 button cell batteries. Works beautifully.
Cost? $1.75.

Profits are likely to be around 25cents or so, probably as low as 10cents after the manufacturing, shipping and distribution channel expenditure.

So, this is what USA manufacturing is up against. On NPR, they interviewed the mayor of a small town in Pennsylvania and a Trump supporter. He wanted to know if 'Trump could persuade some Chinese business people to start their factories in his town'.

Yeah, they can, and they will pay you $1 per hour to work there, probably less.

Not only do these folks have no idea how cut throat the globalization has been to take certain jobs away for good. Either Trump, nor Hillary would be able to solve these issues quickly.

SCCRENDO | 19/11/2016

@Redshift. Looks like Trump and liberal Dems oppose trade with China for different reasons. Trump opposes it because it takes jobs away from Americans. But he misses the point in that Americans wont work for those wages. And indeed ironically I believe Trump is in favor of raising the minimum wage. Liberals object to China flouting our environmental and minimum wage laws. Mainstream Republicans and I would lump Libertarians in with them support trade pacts and don't care how China makes cheaper good as long as they are cheaper. They want Americans to compete by dropping the minimum wage. Trade deals are going to be a dogfight between Trump and congress. So gridlock should continue

RedShift | 19/11/2016

What I object to, is this: if you truly believe in free market, you should not engage in protectionism. What these folks are begging Trump to do is protectionism.

Only way to bring back the jobs is through innovation and new technology. Drill baby drill, coal, shale etc. are not likely the optimal solutions. I'd bet on safer, less expensive, smaller form factor nuclear, wind, solar and other innovations. Growing more food without pesticides and localizing production and bring down costs through innovation, more training in technology, science and math so people can find work in higher wage sectors, and not starting any stupid wars...

Does Trump have any genuinely workable solutions here? Ha. Do his supporters care that he hasn't told exactly what he is going to do? Hell no.

SCCRENDO | 19/11/2016

@Redshift. We see many Trump supporters on these boards. Many are just empty vessels that troll these boards either to just try change the discussion or make statements not based on fact. Others perhaps voted for Trump because they believed in his economics and strong approach and were prepared to overlook his flaws. Many in fact just hated Hillary more. What Trump has done is dignify fact free discussion. This has empowered his supporters who are unwilling or unable to do simple fact checks

carlk | 19/11/2016

Copy the copycat. I said it first.

carlk | 19/11/2016

Let me put this jobs taken away from us thing into perspective. Jobs are taken away by China but they are going there only temporarily. Eventually everyone's job will be taken away by robots and automation. Matter of fact plant automation was already underway in earnest in the US in the 80's and early 90's but then corporations found a cheaper way to manufacture overseas and put that on hold. Automation is coming back fast since robotics are getting better and cheaper and Chinese labor are getting more expensive. The only question now is where those automated plants will be. Will they be in the US or they be in China. That's the most serious issue facing us not to preserve the blue collar jobs. These are gone forever unfortunately. Whichever country has the lead of automation will have the lead of standard of living for its citizens.

Not saying we should just let people hang out there to dry of course. There is a very difficult task to redefine our socioeconomical structure to go with the technology revolution. Elon has mentioned to have basic pay for everyone without having to work. That's could be the direction future society goes. People could work 20 hours week and taking 3 months vacation and still be able to support a nice life because robots are able to do most works. People like Elon still can work 100 hr week if that is what they desire to do, not forced to do.

Now my question to you is you think liberals or conservatives are more likely to take us that way?

EaglesPDX | 19/11/2016

Here's a twist, Trump believing his own rhetoric on bringing jobs back, pulls US out of trade deals, imposes tariffs on imported goods and bases the tariffs on metrics of democracy, environmental law, public education, wages, health care, civil rights. Trumps only interest is imposing tariff to force building of US mfg plants but he needs reasons and those are the reasons US labor costs more so Trump uses them as his tariff shield.

Doubt will see that, more the old tried and true fascist stuff the GOP touts, blaming brown skinned undocumented workers who can't vote (vs. employers like Trump who hire them) and using them as scapegoats while doing nothing real about jobs, health care, education, income equality or the environment.

SCCRENDO | 19/11/2016

We see it. Unfortunately the Trump supporters don't. My hope was that the scapegoating was only to win the election. The question remains as to how real he was will get with the economy.

EaglesPDX | 19/11/2016

@SCCRENDO "My hope was that the scapegoating was only to win the election."

Trump has hired a rogues gallery of racist crazies leading off with the KKK's Sessions as Attorney General. They are talking interment camps for Muslim Americans and mas deportations in the millions for Mexican workers hired by US companies like Trump's hotel chains.

That kind of anti-Muslim, anti-Mexican jihand that can do, all their other promises to the older whites, they can't but they are hoping that beating up brown people will keep the whites happy. It's worked before.

SCCRENDO | 19/11/2016

Been sick today with an upper respiratory tract infection so have been watching movies. Watched Leonardo DiCaprio "before the flood" and am now watching the rise of ISIS on the history channel. They pretty much arose out of 2 factors. The disbanding of the Iraqui army leaving 100s of thousands of unemployed disaffected Sunni soldiers in a Shiite led country, The second turning point was Abu Ghareib prison where they humiliated male prisoners. Those pictures are still all over the internet as an ISIS recruiting tool. The correct approach would be to bring Muslims on board. Many would say that creating Muslim registries and alienating our Muslim community could only end up assisting ISIS recruiting. Is the Trump regime smart enough to learn the lessons of history? Does the Republican congress have the guts to stand up to Trump?

As regards climate change. The DiCaprio movie suggests that China is well aware of the causes of climate change and is moving at a rapid pace to initiate solar and wind power

carlk | 20/11/2016

The world is moving to the 21th century but Trump and his followers want to take us back to the last century. The pollution, dirty industries and the KKK. So many reports of KKK/Nazi celebration parties it is sickening. Some people are so naive when they say let's see what he will do first. He will not do anything you like unless we put up a good fight. Donate or volunteer to human rights organizations like ACLU or Southern Poverty Law Center and write to you senator to do everything possible to stop Trump from appointing those hatemongers to the cabinet. With only slight Republican majority there is still a lot Democrats could do. Even Republican senators they still need to fact the next election. What Trump wants to do is not a done deal yet.

SCCRENDO | 20/11/2016

What a lot of young women are doing are donating to Planned Parenthood on behalf of Mike Pence, So they get the tax deduction and Mike Pence gets the thank you note. Same can be done for the ACLU, environmental causes etc.

SCCRENDO | 30/11/2016

Also looks like China doesn't think Trump is bringing back jobs from China
http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/30/news/economy/china-donald-trump/index.html

compchat | 08/12/2016

We should be builidng more nuclear plants. Solar is great and thermal is great but for now there is just not enough. I have solar on my roof and my total electric bill for 2016 was 86 dollars (even with charging the Tesla).

We had a nuclear plant, san onofre, which worked for many years but was closed because the Japanese sold the US faulty equipment. Instead of sueing the Japanese the government closed the plan and increased our taxes. STUPID. Why should we pay for Japanese incompetency ?

Now we have to pay to decomission the plant, remove the nuclear material, etc. etc.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sdut-san-onofre-annive...

holidayday | 15/12/2016

compchat: "We should be builidng more nuclear plants. Solar is great and thermal is great but for now there is just not enough."

The problem here is the not just the cost of nuclear, but the cost overruns and time overruns while the expected lawsuits are filed, dealt with, and stuff is delayed.
In the meantime, there usually aren't the same issues with solar or wind. If a utility buys land and lays transmission, the main delay is transmission right of way rights. That is still faster than bringing up a nuclear plant. The remaining costs of fuel and maintenance are on the side of renewables.

RedShift | 15/12/2016

IMHO some lefties cry wolf too many times when you mention Nuclear. Instead of finding solutions to make it safer smaller and more manageable, they don't even want to touch it.

Wrong headed, IMHO.

NKYTA | 15/12/2016

@Redshift, I'm a Niven Pournelle fan to!

What about towing those icebergs to water starved countries?

;-)

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