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Flagging threads.

Flagging threads.

Can we please stop flagging bb's threads?
whether you agree with his posts or not, he has a right to post.

Happy New Year!

SCCRENDO | 02/01/2017

@silver +100

SamO | 03/01/2017

No

Maxxer | 03/01/2017

how do you flag?

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

@Samo. While I don't agree either with some of his new threads they are generating discussion and they are only slightly confrontational at times. If they were stupid threads they would not get responses and sink to the bottom. The whole purpose of these boards is to allow free speech. I understand there are limits to free speech but you are behaving like a banana republic censor. If you don't like the threads ignore them. I recognize that like myself we have been around for a while and we are both strong supporters of Tesla. But that does not make us moderators. I only flag spam, business ads and extreme trolling. Johndoe may have personality issues but he is not a troll. There are many who you should be flagging before him. Even McLary has softened and at times speaks sense.

SamO | 03/01/2017

@silver,

What is this "right to post"?

Is it enshrined in some Tesla Constitution we should be learning?

The only "Constitution" I've found is this:

Tesla’s forum provides an online meeting space for owners and enthusiasts to exchange ideas that are entertaining, helpful and useful. We encourage you to participate and only ask that you be respectful of others. Don’t post messages that are obscene, vulgar, hateful, sexual in nature, infringe on the proprietary rights of others, or impersonate or misrepresent yourself or other individuals, including Tesla employees. Only post material which you own or for which you have received a copyright license. Whatever you post, we reserve the right to copy and use. We also reserve the right to edit or delete your post as well as suspend your account."

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

@EVolution. I don't think we should teach you. We have more than enough "flaggers" LOL. If you are an owner you will see "Flag as inappropriate" in red on each comment. Click on it and after a certain number of clicks it disappears.

SamO | 03/01/2017

@SCCRENDO,

The "whole purpose of this board is to allow free speech" is a misunderstaning of the meaning of free speech.

"Free speech" is a concept rooted in ensuring that the GOVERNMENT cannot abrogate a citizen's freedom of expression. There is no such thing as "private free speech".

In fact, Tesla states many limitations on free speech:

obscene
vulgar
hateful
sexual in nature
infringe on the proprietary rights of others
impersonate or misrepresent yourself or other individuals, including Tesla employees.
Post material which you own or for which you have received a copyright license

"you are behaving like a banana republic censor. If you don't like the threads ignore them."

Wrong. I am doing exactly what Tesla has designed: using the flag provided when anyone violates he above terms. This is the alternative Tesla has provided to "moderation" so, as an owner, I will continue to contribute and ensure that anyone who violates Tesla terms of service is removed.

SamO | 03/01/2017

Just a reminder: bb0tin was banned from these boards. Not by me.

By Tesla.

lilbean | 03/01/2017

+1 all @SamO

Maxxer | 03/01/2017

Isn't he back with another pseudo?
You can just register a new account with another e-mail account and reset your IP adress don't you?

TeslaTap.com | 03/01/2017

I don't have any problems with comments I disagree with, especially if they are opinion or valid facts. The issue with bb that ruffles many is his dogma of wrong facts, and then immediately calling anyone that disagrees with him a troll or worse. His attitude in the forums makes it unpleasant, and I'm sure more than one owner has left in disgust. That said, I only flag spam. I'd rather rants (bb or others) quickly roll onto other pages where they can be ignored by most, but not sorry to seem some of it flagged out too.

J.T. | 03/01/2017

@SamO >>>>Wrong. I am doing exactly what Tesla has designed: using the flag provided when anyone violates he above terms.

Do you flag mclary? He certainly violates the rules of conduct. The fact that he usually speaks the truth and has becaome a kind of legend around here, that should not deter you from your mission.

Dramsey | 03/01/2017

bb has certainly exhibited trollish behavior at times, but his current attempts to post a 2017 predictions thread seem benign. I suppose one could make the argument that he has exhibited trollish behavior so pervasively and for so long that he's used up all his chances.

Was his original account really banned by Tesla? Have they ever done that to anyone else?

SamO | 03/01/2017

@J.T.,

In the past, I've flagged McLary but never mclary.

Currently, I use my powers sparingly, but I'm basically only flagging a particular noxious GM astroturder and bb.

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

I am in agreement with Johndoe on climate change yet when I disagree and call him out I get the same treatment. I am the present troll because I agreed with bighorn that his post on motion was pure drivel. But I do not believe that the answer is to flag him. I am the author of the particular post with Mitch that has probably run its course and could easily be taken down by me but have left it up to encourage free expression. You guys have the democratic right to flag what you like but lets do it sparingly and not because you just cannot stand the guy. His 2017 prediction post may have been a little off topic but was benign and generated a fair amount of interest with minimal confrontation.

J.T. | 03/01/2017

Like TT, I only flag spam. if someone is truly offensive, and I hear about it I'll contact the moderator and let him/her deal with it. It is very rare that people get banned but they might get a phone call and a warning. bb0tin did lose a couple of usernames during his "Wall of Bullies" phase, but he seems to have backed down from that.

As for FUD there's simply no way that you'll be able to counter the message, especially to the easily swayed. If someone is going to accept as truth anything posted on a forum then there's no helping them. But flagging the poster usually makes them more determined, so as TT suggests just let it die and drop tonthe lower pages.

rasmussen305 | 03/01/2017

SCCRENDO:

"If you are an owner, you will see 'Flag as inappropriate' in red on each comment."

I am a Model S owner since about a month ago, and I have never seen that. What gives?

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

@rasmussen. Contact Tesla. They may not have updated your owner status. Can you see private threads? The flagging appears to the right underneath the comment.. Not sure I am doing anyone a service here by teaching them how to flag.

KP in NPT | 03/01/2017

Haha @SCCRENDO.

@rasmussen it happens from time to time that owners don't have their status updated. I agree, contact Tesla, they'll resolve it.

rasmussen305 | 03/01/2017

SCCRENDO: Thanks. I just sent a message to Tesla Motors, Inc. I don't think any of the threads I see are "private threads." How would I know if I was looking at a private thread? Maybe my problem is that I am actually a co-owner. My wife is the primary owner, but both our names are on the title.

KP in NPT | 03/01/2017

Try signing in with her email - it's the primary email that's connected to the My Tesla that you need to use.

KP in NPT | 03/01/2017

(That's what I do. mp1156 is my husband.)

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

@rasmussen. Good suggestion from mp1156. Private threads threads used to have a lock. I see some with (private) in brackets. Will start a private thread for testing purposes. Let me know if you see it.

Silver2K | 03/01/2017

I look at it this way, if you don't like the guy, don't post or read his threads. I fully agree he's a troll in many ways and is almost always insulting, but we should be the bigger person and not respond in kind.

The more you flag him and attack him, the more he wins. He knows he's getting to you and you show it.

You guys are good people and I'm just suggesting you not allow him to bring you down to his level.

Remember this is what he did all day with different user names.

J.T. | 03/01/2017

The test is if a visitor can see the clubs under the Forum index.

SO | 03/01/2017

Ignore a troll and they will go back under the bridge.

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

I have the same philosophy as you guys regarding trolls. Ignore them and they go away. There have been some really persistent mud digging trolls of late that have required more aggressive measures but in general ignoring them is the best approach. Trolls need to be fed to survive.
@JT. Good point. the regional clubs appear under the main sections.
I have started a private thread for testing purposes so i would appreciate it if any non owner lets me know if they can see it.

Frank99 | 03/01/2017

I don't buy the "don't feed the troll" meme. Yes, it works great on social forums and online games, where someone is simply being a troll as a form of entertainment. Ignoring them is the worst thing you can do to them; they go somewhere else to find a laugh.

I don't feel it's a good answer on a board such as this, where visitors come to find out about Tesla, to ask questions about the S or the X or the 3, to educate themselves about the technology and the reasons behind it. When you have someone spouting factually incorrect, disparaging comments about Tesla, or the technology, or the reasons behind it, ignoring them doesn't make the bad information disappear. It stays as an authoritative statement posted on a forum of knowledgeable enthusiasts that wasn't challenged - it makes the bad information TRUE.

My New Years resolution is to post correct information only once to combat our disinformation specialists, then ignore them without engaging in an argument. If my skills at writing and persuasion are as good as I believe, anyone reading the thread should be able to differentiate truth from lies, even if lies have the last word.

There may still come a time when a person become so corrosive to the purpose of the forum that they need to be silenced; that's a great time to whip out the flags. Were that I were an owner so that I could do so. Instead, all I can do is thank the owners who take the time to do so.

I think this has been a great discussion thread, and my wish for the new year is that we see a lot more like this.

Thanks

Frank99 | 03/01/2017

So you believe that flagging someone when "..a person become so corrosive to the purpose of the forum that they need to be silenced" is equivalent to religious extremists who kill innocent men, women, and children? I'm laughing :(

KP in NPT | 03/01/2017

There's a difference between trolls and astroturfers. Some Astroturfers are trolls, but not all trolls are astroturfers. :)

SCCRENDO | 03/01/2017

@Frank. I usually respond to incorrect statement. The problem is the low intellect trolls that interject into serious discussions and hijack the topic. Many climate change deniers do this. They need to be addressed simply and politely. There is one character that posts drivel. Another continually stalked every one of my posts with ad hominem attacks. It's usually best to ignore them and anyone reading the post can see them for what they are. If they post and you ignore it sinks to the bottom and disappears. Any encouragement and they keep going.

J.T. | 04/01/2017

@johndoeeyed>>>>As you know, since I have said it about 20 times on this forum already, Tesla did not ban me because of the content of my posts.

You can say it 40 times and it doesn't change the fact that your username, bb0tin, was blacklisted for your attacks on some of the most respected members of this forum. Now, if you can supply any evidence that supports your position then I will retract my statement.

SamO | 04/01/2017

@bannedbernie,

I thought you were banned due to your predilection for hat and shoe eating. As far as how you violate Tesla's terms of service . . . Go fuck yourself. You predicted wrong. Again.

Flagged.

Silver2K | 04/01/2017

As J.T. said, just because we can't see those posts any longer, doesn't mean they didn't exist and we don't remember them. The fact that Moderators haven't banned anyone (from what I've known in 2 years), but your account is very telling.

I ask that you don't get into an argument with that individual, instead just ignore and hope the attitude will change in time. I'm not going to point anyone out, because there is no one to point out. I understand the frustration of anyone that flags him goes through and has gone through.

This kind request is coming from someone that can be pretty unkind as per my comment history :)

SCCRENDO | 04/01/2017

@Johndoe. You are entitled to your dogmatic opinions that you keep repeating. Many are correct and yet others are wrong and completely unsupported by fact. However who frankly cares. Your credibility becomes worthless by your dogmatic approach particularly when unsupported by facts. I am a strong supporter of your right to post in contrast to many others here because I do not believe you are trolling. But you are a giant asshole with severe personality issues and I am not sure anyone on this board even takes you seriously. But I guess in your own small minded way you think you are scoring brownie points. Personally I do not see any purpose in wasting much time even responding to you in the future.

KP in NPT | 04/01/2017

Oh my goodness. You're calling the guy trying to take your side a troll. Do you see the problem with that?

KP in NPT | 04/01/2017

Also, the reason you were blocked had nothing to do with a "system" of the forum. You were blocked by Tesla.

Believe me, if that were true, that flags can somehow trigger someone to be blocked, there are a few others around here who would also be gone. But they are not.

SCCRENDO | 04/01/2017

@Mp1156 +1
@johndoe. I stand by every word above. When responding to an attack by someone personally I guess my response is personal. You may feel I was trolling this thread by trying to defend your right to post and not be flagged. I don't consider it trolling. You behave like an asshole and you seem to have a serious personality disorder. I accept it is insulting. Sometimes the truth can be very insulting.

SCCRENDO | 04/01/2017

@johndoe. Would be happy to do that.

KP in NPT | 04/01/2017

@johndoeeyed I was referring to you calling Silver a troll. I should have made that clear, as there were many accusations of trolling.

mntlvr23 | 04/01/2017

geez - I wandered away from these boards a couple of months ago and just recently started reading them again. These posts above are nearly exactly the same posts.

The world would be a better place if people put a higher value on their time.
I dare not read any of the threads that have more than 50 posts on them, as they likely have the same old crap.

Silver2K | 04/01/2017

@johndoeeyed

My offer to pinch your sexy kiwi butt stand stands. I will give your sexy kiwi butt a playful smack too!
I promise i'll make you giggle ;-)

Silver2K | 04/01/2017

stand/still

Silver2K | 05/01/2017

if you don't know why by now, then you may need to see a pro.

SamO | 05/01/2017

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

You are THE quintessential troll bb0tin. In fact, you are such a prolific troll, that Tesla has banned you multiple time and multiple identities.

The rest of us . . . Not so much. So instead of accusing everyone of trolling you, take a good long look in the mirror, realize that the enemy of comity is YOU, and leave this sacred space.

Silver2K | 05/01/2017

SamO

Am I a troll if I think "he's too sexy for his shirt"?

J.T. | 05/01/2017

Why don't we imagine this scenario: bb0tin has an ongoing wager with some of his internet friends to see who can get the most responses from people who already know that insults and flaming will not deter him.

Every time we respond to him or refers to him he chuckles a little and he adds our comment to his tote board. "Another one bites the dust!"

In other words, with every insult we are making his day!!

Silver2K | 05/01/2017

I haven't insulted him at all.

I not only think he's too sexy for his shirt, I want to smack his little tushy and make him giggle like the Pillsbury dough boy

J.T. | 05/01/2017

@Silver I should have said "with every response or every reference to him" we are making his day.

That's two more :-(

Silver2K | 05/01/2017

son of a...

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