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If you like your health insurance, you can keep it. MAYBE?MAYBE NOT?

If you like your health insurance, you can keep it. MAYBE?MAYBE NOT?

Anyone remember when Republicans mocked Obama for saying that if you like your doctor, you can keep him. There were some problems with Obamacare but many millions got insurance. A circus took place in Washington yesterday and there was much rejoicing. The clowns have a way to improve Obamacare.

Colbert mocks House Republicans after American Health Care Act passes
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/05/media/colbert-gop-american-health-care-a...

J.T. | 05/05/2017
DTsea | 05/05/2017

Many lost the insurance plan they had before as well. It is a complex issue.

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

@DYsea. Significantly more people gained insurance under Obamacare. But many millions will surely lose insurance under "clowncare" (trump-Ryan care). They are cutting out billions of dollars, are allowing insurance companies to exclude those with pre-existing conditions and allowing low risk people to decline insurance. Also older patients who were limited to 3 times higher costs are now going to 5 times higher costs. Not complex to understand that Trump and Ryan are guilty of crimes against humanity
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-people-will-lose-insurance-if-ob...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-06/health-how-17-million...

SUN 2 DRV | 05/05/2017

"It is a complex issue."... who would have guessed... ????

Captain_Zap | 05/05/2017

""It is a complex issue."... who would have guessed... ????"

The members of congress that voted for it without even reading it.

El Mirio | 05/05/2017

Complex as in "how can we hide that all changes ought to benefit the healthcare industry and not the patients".

Complex as to establish a working healthcare system not so much, plenty of solutions in europe, ranging from single payer to hybrid solutions.

https://en.wikipedia DO T org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

Europe average cost ~11% of GDP, USA ~17.6%of GDP.

Should_I | 05/05/2017

If it covers preexisting then by definition it is NOT insurance.

Captain_Zap | 05/05/2017

Exactly, Should I. Insurance is pooled risk.

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

@Should_I. Did you know that rape was a pre existing condition. So a woman who is sexually assaulted should be denied medical care or should pay a high premium??? And if she gets raped again do you think she should cover her own care
http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/05/new-healthcare-bill-ahca-sexual-assault....

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

Educate yourself about pre existing conditions
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/05/health/preexisting-conditions-list-trnd/

J.T. | 05/05/2017

Pelosi>>> You have to pass it to find out what's in it!! (2009)

At the last minute the stalwart members of the Republican Party made sure that this plan would not apply to them. So, you know who gets to keep their health care plan? Congress. You know who pays for it? We do.

That's not pooled risk, that's no risk.

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

@JT+1

Haggy | 05/05/2017

With Obama, the statement was taken out of context. Obamacare didn't make anybody change doctors. It also didn't prevent doctors from retiring or prevent your employer from changing carriers. It was never the case in the strict sense that you'd be able to keep your doctor or provider no matter what, and it never will be. It comes down to whether the government is making you change, and Obamacare didn't do that.

The fact is that few people like Obamacare exactly as is, and an overwhelming majority of citizens want it kept but changed to address problems. Neither party is doing that. Democrats have no choice. Republicans have no desire.

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

@haggy. Change is good and Obamacare certainly needed work. However these clowns are maliciously trying to throw the "baby out with the bath water". I hope that at some point in the future when sanity returns these people get charged with crimes against humanity.

brando | 05/05/2017

US healthcare? What's to keep it?

Major cause of bankruptcy in US? Medical bills.

And no the poor don't go bankrupt, they already are, they have no assets.

So most of those people HAD insurance and still go bankrupt or loose homes (depends on State laws if they can go after your home for unpaid medical bills).

Last 10 years, over 11 million had their homes foreclosed on.

Silver2K | 05/05/2017

this is very funny..

John Cleese reacts to a trump question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UueGetlwpw

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

@silver. Cleese is a real funny guy.
@Brando. Really?? Many middle class people are going to lose insurance? Insurance for many seniors will become unaffordable. You don't think poor people deserve medical insurance??? WOW.

Remnant | 05/05/2017

@SCCRENDO (May 5, 2017)

<< ... Obamacare certainly needed work. However these clowns are maliciously trying to throw the "baby out with the bath water". I hope that at some point in the future when sanity returns these people get charged with crimes against humanity. >>

Tell you what, ALLCAPS, you are the anti-American baby, nay, the demented curmudgeon, we should throw away, with the toxic waters of the alt-left fascism that's lately been expanding in the MSM and on the university campuses of this country.

There is no saving grace for people who call our President a clown for trying to fix the Obamacare cancer created by the Odrama-Hillaryous "Resistance" Conspiracy, which belongs in Venezuela rather than here. You have never been but an unassimilated ISIS-like sleeper whose purpose is to foment hatred and insurgency against the Framers' Republic we root to defend. You are at odds with common sense, economics, the US Constitution, and morality, all at once.

You have too long vitiated all honest debates on these forums with faux reasoning, fallacies, and poisonous, outrageous, fascist lunacy. And you have the nerve to dream of charging someone else with "crimes against humanity" ... ?!!!!

Go away, ALLCAPS. You don't belong in the America of the Founders, that you unmistakably hate.

SCCRENDO | 05/05/2017

@Remnant. Did you take your meds yet??

Remnant | 06/05/2017

@J.T. (May 5, 2017)

<< ... you know who gets to keep their health care plan? Congress. You know who pays for it? We do. ... That's not pooled risk, that's no risk. >>

That's a great point, J.T.

It is offensive that the pledged arbiters of our commitments and, indeed, fates, are sheltered against the consequences of their decisions upon themselves.

Dofpic | 06/05/2017

If you think health care is expensive now just wait until it is free.

My son in Seattle applauded Obamacare but not any more . He only has one provider and much less choice in Dr's than he had previously and now much higher deductibles and premiums. We will not get lower prices until we get a free market. There are only two parts of health care where prices have gone down and quality improved...Lasik surgery and Plastic surgery... Guess what? No government involvement and very little insurance involved. The laws of economics do not cease to exist just because the last president or congress says it does not exist. It always exists.

J.T. | 06/05/2017

@SCCRENDO>>>>You don't think poor people deserve medical insurance???

Of course they deserve the opportunity to acquire health insurance at a cost commensurate with their resources, but those resources should be assessed BEFORE they buy cigarettes, booze, drugs, lotto tickets, big screen TVs, smart phones, premium cable channels and designer clothes.

Health insurance should be a budgetary item like food, shelter, power, transportation and clothing. It shouldn't be up to someone not to buy health insurance because they'd rather splurge on themselves and they know if they get sick or injured someone else will pick up the tab, so why should they?

If all the "poor" people in the country were required to contribute to the pool it would go far in helping everyone.

SCCRENDO | 06/05/2017

@JT. I guess we have different philosophies. I view medical insurance as a right not a privilege. When someone develops a medical condition their treatment should be based on the condition not how much money they have in the bank. We are the only civilized country in the world that does not provide it as a right. I would agree that bad habits such as smoking and bad eating habits should be penalized probably through taxes but there are difficulties in a democracy. E.g. Soda taxes, fatty food taxes, higher cigarette and alcohol taxes.

SCCRENDO | 06/05/2017

@JT. The individual mandates forced people to take insurance and their are income qualifications for subsidies. There is always room to modify these and not just throw them out as Trump-Ryan are doing.

rxlawdude | 06/05/2017

"My son in Seattle applauded Obamacare but not any more . He only has one provider and much less choice in Dr's than he had previously and now much higher deductibles and premiums."
Let's see. He could have purchased, in the free market, off-exchange coverage, no? Free markets do not work well with people's lives, period.

DTsea | 07/05/2017

Probably basic care... checkups, routine stuff.... should be a universal service like the fire department. The unlikely but expensive stuff is what insurance works better for.

MitchP85D | 07/05/2017

SCCRENDO, if you love government care so much, how would you like the Federal government telling you what your salary should be? You see, since you are a doctor, you should feel obligated to provide your services at very little cost to society. Government should control your compensation. Think you would like that? Think you would be able to afford a Tesla if government set your salary?

SO | 07/05/2017

Mitch - government wouldn't set SC's salary. The single payer Medicare would set the payment of the procedure. The hospital would set his salary. The better the hospital is run, the more innovative the hospital and procedure is, the better the hospital prevents returning patients with the same issue, the more they could pay SCCRENDO.

Not sure why so many people think that having Medicare for all is some mystical, unachievable goal when every other major country has it and it works better than our current system. The republicans evidently have done a terrific job misinforming their voter base. Normally I wouldn't care and could laugh this off. But this is starting to hit just a bit too close to home now.

SO | 07/05/2017

I also think it's ridiculous when republicans say "for those who are healthy can get cheaper care".

Got news for you people. You can go into the doctors office thinking you are as healthy as a horse and then get the rude awakening of your life. I went in to the doctors office when I was younger (no known issues), and then bam, they found a hole in my heart and given me to the age of 21 to live. Needed open heart surgery to repair it. Fortunately my parents had insurance but if they didn't, I'd still be paying for it to this day. Lucky me but others...not so much.

SO | 07/05/2017

And these other countries with universal health insurance pay physicians a pretty healthy sum. So I think SC could still afford to buy a Tesla.

https://medicfootprints.org/10-highest-paid-countries-world-doctors/

So once again, a fallacy from the right that somehow the US will just not be able to survive with expanded Medicare coverage.

SCCRENDO | 07/05/2017

@Mitch. Listen to SO_S90D. He is correct. When we get rid of the insurance companies all the money they are stealing from the system can return to patient care. Btw In Austin for a meeting. Wish the rest of Texas was like Austin.

SO | 07/05/2017

Health insurance companies only move money around. They take money from people and then pay to others based on a needed basis.

But also remember, all these health insurance companies need to pay themselves, CEO, CFO, all the staff, buildings, etc. That is money which could have been put to better use for actually paying for patient procedures. Yes, Medicare has to pay staff as well, but they can do more under a single system.

Also, I think it's annoying as h3ll having to make sure my insurance is covered by a certain hospital, doctor, location, medication, etc. Its ridiculous. So as you are dying in the ER, you better make sure to ask the physician if you are covered under your insurance plan at that hospital. Because there is a possibility you should have gone across the street to the other hospital system. Don't laugh. This is actually the case where I live. And this is absolutely absurd.

SO | 07/05/2017

Here is an interesting video.

https://youtu.be/gXBPKE28UF0

SCCRENDO | 07/05/2017

Thanks for posting. So true.

rxlawdude | 07/05/2017

I ask of my bioethics students, "should every provider (pharmacy) pay the same for a given medication? Is volume purchasing that favors a system like Kaiser with lower drug cost ethical?
A sick American is the same in Podunk or a Kaiser facility.

SCCRENDO | 07/05/2017

@rxlawdude. Agreed

Remnant | 08/05/2017

@SCCRENDO (May 6, 2017)

<< I view medical insurance as a right not a privilege. >>

Naturally, according to this view, physicians should be declared government slaves, coverage should be controlled by government bureaus, and all drugs and procedures should only be delivered following the prior authorization issued by a bureaucratically credentialed functionary who matches the diagnosis and the patient to the lists approved by their higher-ups or bodies as appropriate.

This reminds me of Jonathan Swift's Kingdom of Laputa and Lagado Royal Academy. Total freedom by prescription and absolute control by idiots.

Hey, ALLCAPS why don't you move to Venezuela or France? You naturally belong with such places, as you don't understand freedom in the least.

Captain_Zap | 08/05/2017

Insurance is a racket. Single Payer or Universal Health Care seems the way to go. The fear is what it would do to the stock markets and the economy if the insurance companies were suddenly no longer necessary or simply reduced to for-hire administrative services. The insurance industry has the US in handcuffs.

Remnant | 08/05/2017

@Captain_Zap (May 8, 2017)

<< Insurance is a racket. >>

Only when fraudulent, such as in the case of monopolies or reserved markets, which implies prior government intervention.

<< Single Payer or Universal Health Care seems the way to go. >>

Only for the mentally impaired, of course.

Free people, in free markets, develop honest insurance, based on true actuaries and open competition.

Single Payer and Universal Health care are Socialist schemes developed by crooks for moochers and morons.

EllaSpringer458 | 08/05/2017

Selecting health insurance is very risky.

SO | 08/05/2017

@Remnant - "Single Payer and Universal Health care are Socialist schemes developed by crooks for moochers and morons."

And this is the I'll-informed and misguided thinking I was referring to earlier. Universal health care works in the rest of the developed world but for some odd reason, there must be some sort of "stupid dome" over the US that keeps our country from moving to a proven, decent method. Medicare isn't perfect but it is much better than we have and is correct for the future.

finman100 | 08/05/2017

wow, someone doesn't want anything for the good of all. okay, then. Onward with our great system of USA healthcare! Yay. Embraced by no one, loathed by everyone. oh joy to be in such a "tremendous" country.

rxlawdude | 08/05/2017

Wow, carpet leftover. "Free people, in free markets, develop honest insurance, based on true actuaries and open competition."

You mean like in the 1990s, when people were using ERs for primary care, and the most common cause of bankruptcy was medical bills?
THAT kind of "free market?" Sometimes you free marketeers truly sound like heartless bastards.

rxlawdude | 08/05/2017

"Single Payer and Universal Health care are Socialist schemes..."

So is insurance, moron.

SCCRENDO | 08/05/2017

Remnant. I think your dumb statements have been adequately addressed. I am going to digress to remind all that besides being a total moron you are a nasty bigot. You have many suggestions about where I should move to. There are many places in the world where I could live having lived outside the USA for half my life. But I chose to remain here and have the same rights as you to live here as I am a citizen. So get over it. I could just as easily suggest you move to Russia where your favorite fascist leader in the US gets his instructions from.