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Model Y

Model Y

Heard a rumor... Tesla Models were originally intended to be S E X Y. We have the S & X. Allegedly the E was not allowed because of the Ford Model E, and instead Model 3 is being used. If true, what is the plan for the next model...Y? Is it possible a Pickup or Convertible are in the plans? BTW...loving my S immensely. Best car in my collection to date.

Frank99 | 05/06/2017

The Y is expected to be an SUV-ized model 3, much like the X is an SUV-ized Model S. Whether you call it a "crossover", or "CUV", or whatever the term of art is these days, it'll move away from the sedan stylings of the 3 to enable people to carry more "stuff" in a similar size (length/width) car.

David N | 05/06/2017

The rumor you heard is correct.

s1 | 23/06/2017

Also, 3 is substituted for E in LEET (1337) speak so we have S3XY.

Captain_Zap | 24/06/2017

It was originally like this:

Whitestar was the Model S for Sedan (Gen1).
Bluestar was the Model X for crossover (Gen2).
Then, the unnamed Gen3 vehicle was to become the mass-produced Model E for everybody. It was a hat tip to Henry Ford's mass-produced Model T, as was the use of "Model" in the names. We now know what Ford, the company, thought about the use of Model E.

It ultimately became a coincidental joke that didn't work out and the E became a 3 again. The Y is just a bad hangover from the joke and it doesn't really have any significance that we became aware of.

KP in NPT | 24/06/2017

I believe EM said the Y would come out 2019. Supposedly they are also working on a pickup but it seems the Y and semi are first. Until they say otherwise.

georgehawley.fl.us | 24/06/2017

I think it was a marketing error to precede the Model Y with the Model 3. As a result they "only" garnered about 600,000 reservations. Good thing. With the Y they would have had more than a million reservations. Hmm. Maybe it wasn't an error...

Remnant | 25/06/2017

@dee06812 (OP, June 5, 2017)

<< Model Y ... what is the plan for the next model...Y? >>

SEXY or not, in order to preserve Tesla's competitive lead, the MY designers should be mindful of the concept EVs considered or designed by the major auto makers of the world. ,

VW, Porsche, BMW, MB, the Koreans, and others are planning breakthrough EVs for the late teens and early 20s. The innovations they propose – some of which Tesla considered in the past – are potential winners of the EV competition.

Some of the more attractive ones are:

- monocoque carbon fiber cabin with rear-hinged rear door and elimination of the B pillars

- regenerative suspension (smaller size and better specs)

- replacement of mechanical differentials with 100% electronic Torque Vectoring of AWD

- power trains with smaller/lighter motors with sustained acceleration ramps

- hood & roof solar energy generating coats

- inductive and/or self connecting cable recharging options

- metal-air and other electro-chemical range extenders

- all-wheel steering

- replacement of HW instrumentation with SW virtual displays of vehicle functions

- eye-tracking command options

- AP & collision avoidance w/ V2V & V2G options

- mirrorless rearview or 360 surround camera views w/ recording options

- high water & flood escape options

- protection options against environmental hazards

TeslaTap.com | 25/06/2017

@Remnant - It's easy for competitors to offer imaginary features on imaginary cars. As for being breakthrough EVs, that's a long way from reality :)

Once these alternative EVs are actually available, it will be interesting to see if they are just the standard low-quality compliance vehicles (my guess most will be), or something closer to the imaginary concepts. I expect most "new" features will get left of the cutting room floor to get the vehicle cost to be competitive.

Still having competitors is good for the entire industry and should push all vendors including Tesla to offer new cool tech if it has reasonable cost/benefit.

carlk | 25/06/2017

Whether they can make one that is as good as, or better than, Tesla is one thing but more importantly is how could they make one like that and still sell those inferior cars their livelyhood is depending on? No don't think they will ever do that until people are not buying their ICE cars anymore. And by that time it will be way too late for them.

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

There was a very subtle pic of the current Model Y front end in the last Quarterly stakeholders meeting.

Small crossover it is.

To which I respond to Tesla:

WHY???? Why *another* SUV?!?!?! Aren't there enough of the [expletive deleted] things on out r roads alr Andy???

Seriously, FFS, why can't ya just give us a hatchback already????

There. Rant done.

I feel better.

I'd feel even *better* though if they gave us a nice small/midsize hatchback

Anyone in the Tesla Design studio listening? Please?

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

That should have read "on our roads already?"

I hate the iPhone keyboard...

Frank99 | 28/06/2017

What the h-e-double-hockeysticks is the difference between a "small crossover" and a "hatchback"? And why is the difference sufficient for your whine here?

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

Hmmm... hit a nerve?

Size and profile - a small hatch is across the board smaller than a small SUV. Lighter, longer range on the same battery and with the same cargo volume... and seriously, aren't there enough things on the road already that are big just for the sake of being big? Really?

And I'm justified in brining it up here for two reasons:

1. No Model Y forum yet
2. Tesla asks all of us - Right by the forum link on the "my Tesla" page - for "suggestions and feedback"

So I am providing suggestions and feedback.

Hopefully in a way that grabs their attention. Hopefully in a way that makes them laugh (which aids retention)

Though I obviously missed a smiley in there somewhere...

So here, have a smiley:

:-)

carlgo2 | 28/06/2017

Sorry, the Design Studio is working on my proper, truck-like SUV/SAV with a useful square back and a menacing look that gives onlookers an odd sense of impending doom.

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

Wait - I think you must be one of my neighbors... he put chrome fangs in the grill of his F350, aftermarket exhaust stacks behind the cab,and a set of big red truck-nuts hanging off the tow-hitch...

Though to be honest, i'v considered getting a set of said truck nuts for my MINI, just to irritate him m..: ;-D

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

...though I do agree with you that a more functional design for the Model X would have included more cargo space and at least a nominal off--road capability

Absent those, it seems more a fancy minivan than a SUV

SUN 2 DRV | 28/06/2017

Frank: Ride height and easier occupant access are two differences often mentioned. eg Toyota offers both a Prius and a Rav4...

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

I know I'm dreaming here... but this is, after all a space for sending feedback to the good folk in the studio.

So what if...

What if they updated the Model X to make it a proper SUV, with a good mix of passenger and cargo capacity and the ability to take them to places that cars can't go

What if they made the Y as a smallish hatch that did the same thing for the in-town set

And then made the Tesla pick as a true utility cargo-hauler?

It would nicely balance the lineup and give them a bit of off-street Fred in the bargain...

Frank99 | 28/06/2017

So jack a hatchback 3 inches up in the air, which makes it easier to get into, and it becomes a crossover?

Is that what the rant is all about? eeb9 needs 3 inches removed?

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

...as long as it let's go farther and faster on the same charge while carrying same load...

Yep

Endurance, performance and velocity at the expense of mit of wasted length? Sho 'nuf

eeb9 | 28/06/2017

Heck, I'll even give ya the extra inches, if you need them that bad... :-)

Frank99 | 28/06/2017

I didn't say I didn't need them, but you don't see me up here ranting that I need 3 extra inches...

SUN 2 DRV | 28/06/2017

"I didn't say I didn't need them, but you don't see me up here ranting that I need 3 extra inches..."

... and that's what she said..... ;-)

KP in NPT | 28/06/2017

"Endurance, performance and velocity at the expense of mit of wasted length? Sho 'nuf"

Clearly eeb9 has never driven a model X. Good lord. The Y will be a screaming little crossover. I'm sure you won't miss any of those things AND you'll have 3 extra inches.

SUN 2 DRV - ba-dum-bum

SUN 2 DRV | 28/06/2017

And KP likely knows whether those extra inches are actually important... :-)

eeb9 | 29/06/2017

@KP - I have zero doubts that Tesla can make the MOdel Y a screamer. None whatsoever.

My question is a bit more from the philosophy side - as in, unless those 3 inches also give you 3 inches more ground clearance so you can take it somewhere a car can't go, then, really - what's the point?

I guess this is my criticism on most SUVs in general - they really have become sort of a tricked out MiniVan or a wanna-look-sort-of-off-road-ish boxy hatchback (depending on size).

The Model X is no different in this respect - not enough ground clearance to make it to the last place I went camping. It's not built to do the one task that (for me at least) kind of *defines* an SUV: the ability to effectively drive out past where the pavement ends, into places that would rip the bottom out of your car.

So the real genesis of my poking-the-design-studio-with-a-stick rant is this: be honest with what you build

Want to have a Tesla SUV? Awesome! But make it *real*. Give it at least the option for real off-road travel - taller suspension, tires that can handle mud, more useful space to haul your gear... you know, SUV stuff

Likewise with the Y - want to make it an SUV? Cool! Put those three inches to work by giving me the ability to haul my camping gear and kayak down the last five miles of rough dirt road to my favorite base-camp.

If you're *not* going to do that, then bite the bullet and re-optimize them for what they really are: a (high-end) MiniVan and an in-town hatchback.

You'll get better performance by losing some of the SUV trappings- make them a bit smaller and lighter, for instance

Don't make SUVs that only *look* the part. You're better than that

KP in NPT | 29/06/2017

eeb9 - you are describing just about every "luxury" SUV/Crossover built today. Jeep and Land Rover need to make BEVs to fit your requirements. SUVs now are about mommies having a V8 to haul groceries and to be able to be eye level with all the other mommies with V8s hauling groceries. Not to go mudding.

Maybe Tesla will build a "rugged" trim option. ;-)

eeb9 | 29/06/2017

There ya go! :-)

Here's an interesting counter-example though... my last camping trip (on the Coosa River in NW Georgia), most of us had to park at the top of the property backseat the last five miles were impassible to anything with less than 6-8" of clearance, good shocks and AWD.

Want to know what we took down to the river?

A $90k Lexus LX. Not only was it a fully-capable off-road SUV, it was d@mned comfortable as well.

Going in was jagged rocks and 6" deep ruts in rock-hard dry clay, low-hanging branches and rough brush on both sides.

Coming back out a couple days later, it was all that, except (because of almost 24 hours of rain), the ruts were slippery, soggy, deep wells of Georgia Red clay.

That Lexus didn't even blink.

Sure, it needed a bath afterwards - but so what?

I flat do not believe that a Tesla X could have made the same trip, in *or* out.

I want to at least see an *option* for that kind of driving in the X, even if most people only buy it to make mommy feel safe while hauling the kids to soccer practice, or to make an impressive entrance with those fancy doors at the Club.

eeb9 | 29/06/2017

Oh - and (because this is supposed to be a Model Y thread...)

I want to see that same capability in the Model Y, if they truly intend it as a small SUV.

If they don't plan to offer that, why *not* make it smaller, faster, lighter and more efficient by losing the excess "SUV Baggage"

KP in NPT | 29/06/2017

I'd imagine with the air suspension and correct tires, the Model X can do anything the Lexus can. Definitely not anything a Jeep or Rover can.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-goes-off-roading-isnt-just-anothe...

I'd say that space will be left for either the Tesla truck, or when OEMs that produce utility vehicles decide to jump on the BEV train.

eeb9 | 29/06/2017

Agreed on all points.

The air suspension helps, but you'd need non-standard wheels and tires

Anyone know the max ground clearance you can get on an X when tip-toeing through the tulips?

I'd buy a Tesla SUV - if was *actually* an SUV. I'm watching for the Pickup Truck version for just that reason. Given that I've not had more than two people in any car I've driven for the last ten years, passenger space is utterly wasted on me.

I still want the Y to be a hatch though - room for me and my stuff, able to fit in small urban parking spots and still leave pretty much every other driver on the road wondering "what the [insert expletive of your choice here] was *that*" as they dwindle rapidly out of view in the rear-view... ;-D

KP in NPT | 29/06/2017

I think it's safe to say the model Y will have a hatch just like the X and any other crossover. If it has decent cargo space I can see us trading in our S for it - eventually. When we're ready for an upgrade from our AP1 hardware.

eeb9 | 29/06/2017

ya know, if I can either fold the rear seats flat or (better yet) remove them completely and replace them with useful storage, I could go with that

My one big complaint with most small SUVs is that they're big(er) just for the sake of being big(er) than their hatchback cousins. Bulkier, less efficient, slower, all without being able to really take them out for a run down a logging trail to that next awesome trailhead.

There are some notable exceptions to that over-broad generalization (MINi competing in and occasionally winning the Dakar rally is my favorite example), and I'll leave room for Tesla to be one of them. could happen. Maybe.

Rocky_H | 29/06/2017

@eeb9, You think you're criticizing Tesla, but you're actually just criticizing the watered down misuse of the term SUV that has permeated the United States versus the rest of the world.

"Absent those, it seems more a fancy minivan than a SUV"

You're right, but that's what the entire segment of things called SUVs in the U.S. is. Tesla isn't any different than all the other car makers in that. It's kind of the open secret of the auto market here. Not many companies make minivans anymore *wink* *wink*, but they really still do; they're just not calling them that.

And yes, the Model Y is intended to be that hatchback you want.

eeb9 | 29/06/2017

@Rocky - you nailed exactly the point I was making. Absolutely dead-on.

I'm hoping for Tesla to be *better* than the rest of the market, particularly in this segment of *wink* *wink* Minivans-in-muscle-suits.

Earl and Nagin ... | 29/06/2017

@eeb9,
I, too, want a real SUV but, just as we see at sporting goods stores that carry more sports fashion than sporting goods - the market wants to dress sporty but live leisurely. There are a lot more people who are willing to pay a lot for the look but don't want the functionality tradeoffs of rough handling and reduced interior volume that come with the function. To make money, this large market must be served before moving to the rugged market.
The X in Model X was originally for Cross-over, however, their marketing folks, like with the rest of the auto industry chose to call it an SUV.

carlgo2 | 29/06/2017

The Y is going to be built on its own production line. This might mean that it will be more than a tall sedan/minivan, maybe more rugged, and this could then also serve as the basis for a pickup and Eurovans. All this in a separate plant that would also make batteries, the goal for Tesla. Kinda makes sense.

brando | 30/06/2017

How about the Michelin car? Too out side the box?
i1uTR-8KarE

brando | 30/06/2017

As Model S has reached tire limits, let us look to a tire company?
http://www.plugincars.com/michelin-107279.html

johnse | 03/07/2017

@eeb9
You might want to take a look at these videos. The X might surprise you:
Offroad dirt track driven by afficionados: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_rFji6kHeQ They did not expect the X to do anything close to how well it did. They felt that if it had higher clearance and more suspension travel, a purpose-built off-road BEV would be able to compete with pretty much anything. They don't know of any other car that can do as well as it did on the offroad and still hit 2.8s 0-60.

This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Ze_QxyCBQ shows the X crossing a ditch at 45 degrees, in snow. At times having two wheels hanging.

Mike83 | 03/07/2017

johnse+10

eeb9 | 04/07/2017

That's kinda my point on the X - "if only..."

Tesla can take that final small step into SUV history just by adding a factory option with a bit more ground clearance, appropriate tires and shocks, a more robust and scratch-tolerant bumper/rocker panels and maybe a few trail-worthy accessories (let your imagination run wild here!)

The X platform is a great starting point - but the designers and engineers need to be able to do the mental/design equivalent of "shifting to 4-low" to get it where it needs to go.

I'm very hopeful that, should they insist on making the Model Y into yet-another small crossover, they'll give it more than just cosmetic cladding...

eeb9 | 04/07/2017

But I'd still prefer a Hatchback.

;-P

McLary | 05/07/2017

"Seriously, FFS, why can't ya just give us a hatchback already????"

Model S is a hatchback. There problem solved.