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Seriously considering a minivan.

Seriously considering a minivan.

Models S owner for 3 years. Absolutely love the car but my family is looking for something bigger and we find ouselves questioning if we really want to pay that much for a car. I doubt we are alone but the model s is >3x more than we ever thought we would spend on a car. We have the money, but we definitely don’t consider ourselves rich. We work hard, we save and we try to be smart with our money. The model X would be a no brainer If it wasn’t so expensive. Despite some pro-Tesla stats, I have a hard time believing I would spend close to $50k on gasoline and maintenance over an odyssey in 5-10 years. I can see a strong argument for a $70-$80k SUV but not for something around $50k. And since we have a Tesla, we are well aware of all the benefits of the Tesla. Tesla are an emotional buy, and there are arguments that try to rationalize the decision. I’ve seen videos comparing the X to the Range Rover or the 3 to the civic and BMW, but those compare similarly priced vehicles. When the delta is $50k does it still make sense?

Thanks.

lilbean | 25/04/2018

Minivans are the worst! Don't get one.

rockyouever | 25/04/2018

If your concern is only about money, you have many choices and MX/MS are not for you.

avesraggiana | 25/04/2018

Until our family’s Model S, and especially the Model X which came several months later, I was a HUGE minivan fan. I have owned two Honda Odysseys, the second being a 2016 Odyssey Elite, tricked out with everything.

From a practicality standpoint, nothing, nothing, nothing beats my eight seater Odyssey Elite. The capacious cabin, even in the third row, the generous amount of cargo space, the rear DVD entertainment system, the ability to create a low, completely flat and cavernous a cargo area, the quiet ride, the moderately engaging driving dynamics - for a minivan, I could go on and on. Based on most of those metrics our beloved Model X100D was found wanting indeed.

Here’s the thing - earlier this year we filled all six seats of my mum’s $120,000 Model X100D and left on a week long 750 mile California road trip. We had to plan our charging stops, we had to spend extra time waiting and eating, my last row passengers had to sit at a diagonal so that they could stretch their legs, and my middle row passengers had to put up with seats that do not recline, nor offer twin armrests, both of which were conveniences that are taken for granted in my Odyssey minivan. And did I mention earlier that all rear side windows in my minivan offer built-in sun shades?

We wouldn’t change a thing. Arriving at our destination we would feel a little tired but not shattered, from a full day of driving. Everything about the Model X, both from a driver and a passenger’s point of view made you want to drive, and drive and drive.

I could wax eloquent all day but anybody who’s ever driven a Model X for an extended period will tell you that it is by far THE BEST road trip vehicle. I would NEVER consider taking my Honda Odyssey, or any other type of vehicle on a road trip.

Anyway, I’ve digressed. Buying a Tesla is about the farthest thing from a rational financial decision. At best, you can rationalise your decision to buy a very expensive crossover with reduced practicality and versatility, especially compared to a minivan, by telling yourself you’re buying into a vision of the future that no longer includes gasoline. That’s it.

After experiencing the much lauded pleasures of owning and driving a Tesla, I have to commend you for your ability to remain hard nosed and eminently sensible by in the end, choosing a minivan.

teethdood | 25/04/2018

At the risk of being flamed by @lilbean, I do like my Sienna minivan. My MX is my daily driver as well as for leisure trips (small family of 3). However, the minivan has more room, can stow storage with a roof rack, is great for going shopping, buying plants, etc. you name it. We'll do a long roadtrip with my extended family soon and I will have to take my minivan because I can't make them wait while I charge. I am as pro-Tesla as anyone, but I think ICE cars particularly minivans do have their advantages for certain situations.

lilbean | 25/04/2018

@teethdood Haha! Our Odyssey served us well but the tires were outrageously priced and wore quickly. The problem I had with it in LA was that rude drivers would consistently run me off the road or cut me off.

Tesra5115 | 25/04/2018

@lilbean I can’t image those issues you had with the minivan are any better with the X. If anything I would think the weight of the X would wear the tires out quicker. Also, are the LA drivers less rude when you are in an X?

Tesra5115 | 25/04/2018

@teethdood If you didn’t have an X or your sienna and were looking to making a purchase, which would you choose?

Tesra5115 | 25/04/2018

@rockyouever money is not the only concern but I think it is an important one. It’s not as if the X offers everything an Odyssey or Sienna offers. As @avesraggiana and @teethdood highlighted, there are compromises and a $50k premium.

Uncle Paul | 25/04/2018

Comparing Apples and Oranges here.

Mini-van holds more and has tons of cup holders. Especially designed for trips like you described.

Image of Mini-van is Soccer Mom...totally. Model X is avant gard. Far advanced and Eco.

Mini-van can travel longer on a trip without stopping, but burns a ton of polluting gasoline to get there.

Mini-van looks like a...minivan. Tesla looks like a space ship.

Mini van is cheaper to buy, but depreciates faster and does not qualify for $10,000 or so in tax credits, fuel is 4x times more expensive, not including the costs of cleaning up the air. Mini-van will be in the shop for oil changes and engine maintenance far more than Tesla will spend at a Supercharger. Tesla also never needs to spend time at gas stations as it is fully charged every morning.

Benefits on both sides.

Alternative to consider is to buy a base Model 3 when they come out for +/- $35,000 and rent a mini van for those few times a year you need to make a long road trip with everybody coming along plus their luggage.

teethdood | 25/04/2018

@Tesra5115 That is an interesting question. I have a very small family, 1 kid who is 5 years old, so I don't need all the space in a minivan. I would choose the X knowing the differences between the two, as I can just rent a truck should I ever need to buy something a bit bigger (ie a tree or furniture). But the minivan has pretty convincing advantages as well if you have a bigger family with older kids. Coupled that with the $50K delta, I'd have to lean toward the minivan. That is to say for ME: family size is ultimately the difference maker, with the $50K being an added factor.

jjgunn | 25/04/2018

Buy The MX - Get the cheepie (75D) & I have a referral code for free SuperCharging

Just go for it - I did after getting annoyed waiting to configure my M3

I assure you I'm not rich

Tesra5115 | 25/04/2018

@jjgunn lol “cheapie.” I’d likely go with 100D if we decide to go with the X. We currently have an S with 85 kWh battery and want more range. Still, the “cheapie” 75D optioned with autopilot and the seat configuration minimally will push the price over $90k.

lilbean | 25/04/2018

@Tesra It is like night and day in the X. The X gets a lot of respect. I also went to breakfast with a mom friend of mine. She has an S and an Odyssey. We took her odyssey and people were cutting us off. She said it happens when she drives the minivan. People stop for the X.

Tesra5115 | 25/04/2018

@uncle Paul No argument on the soccer mom image of a minivan. The X is just awesome, and although some may question its looks, we absolutely love it, which is why we have a dilemma. If I had to pay $50k more more a car I didn’t find attractive, there would be no discussion here.

I would argue the depreciation angle though. The amount our MS has depreciated, we could have easily gotten ourself a minivan. Lol

lilbean | 25/04/2018

@Tesra What about the 3?

Tesra5115 | 25/04/2018

@lilbean we have an S and we want something bigger. If not the X, I prefer an SUV, but my wife wants the space of the minivan. If the X had all the space and benefits of the minivan or the X was not as expensive, then an X is a no-brainer. We have 2 kids and one is still in a car seat so space is critical, plus my wife thinks the S is too low. She’s pretty much done with sedans.

TeslaTap.com | 25/04/2018

Another factor is safety - the Model X is clearly safer vehicle. That said, the Honda Odyssey has a very good safety rating too - just not as good as the X. To some, that added safety is worth quite a bit.

lilbean | 25/04/2018

@Tesra I know you said that but the 3 is so much fun. She would hate the 3 then. It's much lower than the S. It feels like a go cart. The X is expensive. I don't think I would ever get another one. The prices went up.

avesraggiana | 25/04/2018

@lilbean. “The prices went up.” They did?! That’s not good news. USAA are getting closer to making an official decision but it looks like my mum’s Model X is going to be totaled.

I’m now having to think, how on Earth am I going to get another one?

Ninefiveone | 25/04/2018

I'm sure someone has bought a Tesla on the basis of "gas and maintenance" savings but it's been proven that on a pure numbers basis, it takes far too many years for that equation to work.

The very fact that you've posed the question the way you have tells you what your choice should be. It's the minivan. People buy the X for reasons that don't overlap with reasons you buy a minivan. People buy the X for the driving experience, FWD's, eco-concerns, and/or love for tech, etc. People buy a minivan for being the ultimate in useful transportation, low risk, and value. Neither is the better choice empirically but one is always the better choice based on personal preferences.

Someday you might be able to get both those criteria in a single vehicle but that day isn't today. Figure out which group of criteria is most meaningful to you and the rest is easy.

lilbean | 25/04/2018

@avesraggiana I played around with the design studio and configured the same car, although the 90D is no longer available. I configured with the 100D and the price came out to almost $117K. Ours was $109K.

Model_D | 25/04/2018

Minivans are awesome... until you sell them. They plummet in value as soon as you drive off the lot. I used a minivan for the family and as a tow vehicle for my race car (always towed below the max weight). I could carry so much more stuff than the others with SUV’s and trucks. Gas mileage was as bad as an SUV and the transmission was starting to slip after 50K miles when I sold it. Awesome vehicle. I have no interest in getting one again after getting an X.

lilbean | 25/04/2018

So true, @ModelD. The nine year old, $50K minivan only got us $5600. My seventeen year old $24K Escape got me $2500. Worst purchase ever.

Tesra5115 | 26/04/2018

@lilbean The minivan is pretty bad, but 17 years with the escape seems pretty good. Obviosuly I don’t know the repair and maintenance history. We’ve always owned Toyota’s and Hondas. We have been very fortunate very little unforeseen maintenance or repairs.

In either case we don’t consider resale when we buy cars. They are terrible “investments” and we expect a great deal of depreciation. Still our S in 3 years has depreciated what your minivan did in 9 years.

lilbean | 26/04/2018

Wow! @Tesra. As long as you are in a safe vehicle for your family, I’m ok with that. :)

SteveMost | 26/04/2018

Can you wait for the Model Y

Cuttin | 26/04/2018

How come no one is mentioning the auto pilot.

It's such an incredible feature. I'm using it on 99% of my driving. I'm less tired, get more things done safer, enjoy the view, etc.

The acceleration, nearly 2 seconds faster to 60mph.

The instant power available without delay.

The driving dynamics? It drives like a sports car.

Awd is a big one too. Not just for snow. It's safer everywhere there is occasion rain even.

How can anyone compare the two. Yes a minivan will always win on comfort for large families. That's it. Period.

Tesra5115 | 26/04/2018

@stevemost based on the track record, we may take delivery in 2020?

Tesra5115 | 26/04/2018

@cuttin No one is arguing the X is a far superior car. I’m just debating whether or not the $50k premium is worth it for our family. We love our S but we want something bigger.

Rocky_H | 27/04/2018

@Cuttin
(1) auto pilot – driver’s feature
(2) acceleration – driver’s feature
(3) instant power – driver’s feature which actually sometimes causes some motion sickness in passengers
(4) driving dynamics – driver’s feature
(5) AWD – general feature

I’m noticing a certain trend. Out of the 5 things you mentioned, 4 of them are specifically things about benefitting how the driver enjoys driving the car, but are not related to the passengers’ use or comfort or all around usefulness of the vehicle. No one is debating that a Tesla is a fantastic experience for the driver, but there are frequently overall practical considerations to what a family needs their vehicle to DO that outweigh the driver’s enjoyment.

Ohmster | 29/04/2018

What I really miss about our previous minivans (and even SUVs) is back passenger control of climate and media.

Tesla could offer a passenger app or portable device that works whilst within the vehicle to control those aspects. That would enhance passenger experience significantly.

‘17 S75 & X75D: Uncorked AP2.5 18.12 w/ maps. Grin on!

Tesra5115 | 30/04/2018

Test drove X100, Odyssey, Q7, and XC90 this weekend.

The X100 was as we expected...amazing. Ruled out the minivan because ironically enough, it ended up feeling and being too big. The XC90 was very nice but we were not as impressed as we thought we would be. We we’re actually really impressed with the Q7. Q7 had great tech, amazing luxury feel and quality, amazing visibility, and a great and fun driving experience.

We’ve put down our deposit for the X because of the “ending” referral program, but we have 3 days to reconsider and get our deposit back.

Perhaps I should start a new thread but thoughts on the Q7? The model X we built out is $118k. The Q7 we would most likely go with would be $70-$75k.

lilbean | 30/04/2018

All I can say is when we picked up our 3, we looked at the rows of cars that were traded in. Most of them were Audis. LOL!

teethdood | 30/04/2018

Tesra, congrats on your new X!

Tesra5115 | 30/04/2018

@teethdood. Thank you for your objective feedback.

whoosh1 | 26/05/2018

Some interesting comments on this thread. On a slightly different track here - I think most Americans have a bit of silly attitude about SUVs and minivans. They think SUVs make them look/feel cool and minivans make them look/feel old/dowdy. Or that SUVs are cooler looking. In my humble opinion this is completely off - both SUVs or minivans look somewhat ugly compared to sports cars and sedans. Appearing somewhere in an SUV will not suddenly make the same person more cool or dashing or rugged. That will entirely depend on that person - regardless of what kind of car that person drives. Having said that, Tesra5115 has already decided on Model X - which is a very good choice for him/her - as it was based on test driving the options.

avesraggiana | 26/05/2018

@whoosh1. Right on. I drove a minivan for years, and loved it. Loved their utility, their functionality and their comfort. Even now there are times I think, “My old Honda Odyssey had this...my old Odyssey could do that..., etc, etc.”

Still, I’m never going back to driving an ICE, no matter how nice.

Sorry.

whoosh1 | 26/05/2018

@avesraggiana - not going back to an ICE is also a valid consideration - we have an electric SUV but not an electric minivan.

Tesra5115 | 26/05/2018

@whoosh1 there are no good looking minivans. There are very good looking suvs. ;)

Nothing out there currently compares to the experience of a Tesla. I still haven’t ruled out ice in the future. Really really liked the Q7. Tech was nice, luxury was great. IMHO Tesla have great tech, nice luxury, and great driving experience.

burdogg | 26/05/2018

Tesra5115 - I haven't ever driven a Q7 so this statement may not apply but my experience...

After driving a Tesla for a year (a model S) and at the same time, having to take the Ford Expedition any time the family went anywhere (couldn't fit in the S) - I had enough - I had no desire to spend more money, let alone $110,000 on an X, but couldn't stand the difference in drive from electric to ICE. So, a year later, the X arrived, and boy do I just love the feel of driving it. The smoothness, the quick response, the ability to get around anyone in a second, not having to worry if enough room to pass, etc...

honestly for me, I have been ruined, driving an ICE is not nearly as nice (at least our Ford Expedition -which we do take still to go a couple miles up the road with our jet skis). But that is just me - and it has nothing to do with gas, emissions etc...it is purely just the difference in driving electric and ice (Regen braking as well)

lilbean | 26/05/2018

Exaclty my thoughts, @burdogg!

I do miss this about the minivan https://youtu.be/N53UbRb2YnI

Tesra5115 | 26/05/2018

@lilbean lol
Kids would love it if they can hang on falcon wings. Maybe adults too.

Tesra5115 | 26/05/2018

@burdogg all of the advantages of the owning a Tesla are true. But audis, Volvo, Mercedes, etc offer a level of luxury that the Tesla’s just haven’t matched. But ultimately it was all the other benefits that swayed our decision in favor of the X.

lilbean | 26/05/2018

@Tesra5115 That would be fun!

jlmuinonen | 26/05/2018

Our 100D that we have on order is replacing a 2015 Odyssey. I can't wait until I never have to drive that boat again! We know that there are smarter purely financial decisions that replacing the minivan with the MX, but we have decided that we don't want to drive ICE cars anymore. We fell in love with driving electric with my husbands commuter car, a Chevy Bolt. And really need an AWD call in Northern Ontario for our main car, plus we needed something big enough to fit the kids and our 150lb Newfoundland dog. The only electric car that fit the bill was the MX. So hopefully in about 6 weeks time, we will be fully electric. Luxury level wasn't even a consideration, given that I think that the most we have ever spent on a car is around 50K to date...lol But I am 100% that the MX will be worth it. Congrats on your order!

pat.d.oshea | 14/06/2018

I wish Tesla made a mini-van for all the reasons listed above. I've had MDXs and Highlanders and really liked them, but no CUV could compare to the size/comfort of my Toyota Sienna we got a few months ago. I do dislike the 15 mpg and there is a stigma with them, but I love it and glad I made the jump.

Since getting my Model 3 a month ago I just can't help thinking Tesla needs to make a minivan. I got to think if Tesla crossed the size of the S/X platform with the simplicity of the Model 3, that they would have a winner. Decked out minivans can approach 50k. I believe there are 500k sold each year and I'm sure they could capture 1/3 of the market with tesla styling. Plus, I'm sure they would take some of the pressure from the Model Y as I bet they would steal some of the CUV market too.

I'm sure I'm over simplifying cross MS/MX with a M3, but I would think the doubling of sales on the higher end platform might make it worth while. What does everyone think? Am I crazy?

jjgunn | 14/06/2018

I think the Model Y will be minivan-ish.

I fail to see the "level of luxury" that Tesla hasn't matched.

BMW & Mercedes are not impressive to me & I've been in & driven plenty of them.

The Audi R8 is hot but for about 30k less I can have a Tesla.

I don't even like cars but Tesla has given me newfound interest.

Tesla checks all the boxes for me & I understand everybody is different.

Tesra5115 | 14/06/2018

@jjgunn everything is subjective. For me it was fit and finish. The 2018 Q7 interior looked and felt better. Love the simplicity of Tesla’s though. Also, felt the ride was smoother. For me, Tesla checked more boxes than any other car. The ones they didn’t check, were pretty darn close.

Anzir | 14/06/2018

We have a Yukon XL and it has been more than amazing as a utility vehicle for our family of 5. All 3 kids are 6 and under, all still in car seats. It's also not horrible on gas, as I've averaged 18-19 MPG driving it with the techniques I had on my previous Prius. I've had it as a daily driver for 3 years now and the size has started to wear on me so I looked at a Model X, especially given the tax incentives for small business owners. After driving the X, the thing that stood out the most was that it was not going to be a replacement for the Yukon (by any means). There are compromises in space, seating, rear entertainment for the kids, rear climate control, range for long trips without having to stop for charge, etc. etc. We usually take 3-4 trips over 300 miles one-way each year and the Yukon is perfect for that. All the kids are separate with the 7-seater configuration with captains chairs in the second row, and the child in the rear seat is centered down the aisle so they don't feel cramped way back there. And they get their own ceiling-mounted screen in the entertainment system.

That being said, I placed a deposit on an X after discussing it with my wife. It will be the perfect car to run around town between my offices and dropping off and picking up kids. And since I'll be mainly using it for business, that will keep my deduction close to 90% during the year of purchase. And we're keeping the Yukon for the weekend and for trip. We're blessed to have the garage space to do so.

Surprisingly, I would say both vehicles will be utilized to various functions that a minivan performs. The Yukon provides the space and utility, passenger comfort, and size that feels safe on the highway. The X provides daily conveniences such as automatic passenger doors (which, yes, are much cooler when they swing up), smaller wheelbase without a truck-like driving dynamic that it easier to zip around town.

Anzir | 14/06/2018

We have a Yukon XL and it has been more than amazing as a utility vehicle for our family of 5. All 3 kids are 6 and under, all still in car seats. It's also not horrible on gas, as I've averaged 18-19 MPG driving it with the techniques I had on my previous Prius. I've had it as a daily driver for 3 years now and the size has started to wear on me so I looked at a Model X, especially given the tax incentives for small business owners. After driving the X, the thing that stood out the most was that it was not going to be a replacement for the Yukon (by any means). There are compromises in space, seating, rear entertainment for the kids, rear climate control, range for long trips without having to stop for charge, etc. etc. We usually take 3-4 trips over 300 miles one-way each year and the Yukon is perfect for that. All the kids are separate with the 7-seater configuration with captains chairs in the second row, and the child in the rear seat is centered down the aisle so they don't feel cramped way back there. And they get their own ceiling-mounted screen in the entertainment system.

That being said, I placed a deposit on an X after discussing it with my wife. It will be the perfect car to run around town between my offices and dropping off and picking up kids. And since I'll be mainly using it for business, that will keep my deduction close to 90% during the year of purchase. And we're keeping the Yukon for the weekend and for trip. We're blessed to have the garage space to do so.

Surprisingly, I would say both vehicles will be utilized to various functions that a minivan performs. The Yukon provides the space and utility, passenger comfort, and size that feels safe on the highway. The X provides daily conveniences such as automatic passenger doors (which, yes, are much cooler when they swing up), smaller wheelbase without a truck-like driving dynamic that it easier to zip around town.

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