Is traveling from 0-60 in as much as 1/2 second less and 57 miles increase in range worth $8200 for and S85 as opposed to the S60?
The battery warranty is also better (unlimited miles for the 85)
YES...Unless you're a soccer mom running the kids to and from school, or have a microscopic commute and have a second car for longer trips, you'll always be kicking yourself for not getting the maximum range.
Take it from a MS60 owner. It is not the performance ... you can't have enough range!
it is when you need it - there is no substitute - it's not for daily - but when you need the range you need the range…
I have a 60 and it's fine. Supercharger spacing accommodates the 60.
For some, yes. For others, no.
For some, no. For others, yes.
The other part of the question is will the extra $8200 in your retirement account make much difference for you life style?
What will do a lot will do a little.
It is certainly a first world problem, but I wanted both. Gave up the Roadstear for a "full" car + good acceleration.
I admit having range envy and agree w/carlk. Wish I could have a do over
I do 100 miles per day and at times may want to go out later. Only twice have I actually needed the range in 20000 miles but I feel more comfortable with the backup range. I still have many miles to go with this car.
Depends on how long you plan on keeping this car, if it's your main car, and if you're on board with the vision of driving long distant trips with the car. I love the videos bjorn makes, such an inspiration to see someone maxing out their tesla, makes me want to drive from SoCal to Vancouver this year! I definitely would feel more comfortable in my 85 than I would in a 60, I'll never drive it to below 30 miles remaining just for peace of mind so it's good to know I'll be safe and not risking my cars $20k+ battery if I ever brick it. I also plan on keeping my car over 8 years so it's kinda planning ahead in my case too.
Unless performance means a lot, it will depend mostly on how often you anticipate using superchargers and how you value your time. Charging the first 1/2 of battery capacity is fairly fast yet still a little slower for the 60 but you would rarely be charging from zero at the superchargers. Most supercharging on 60's is likely done with 20-50 miles of range remaining (60 model owners should chime in here). To get 150 miles of range added in this scenario should take about 40-60 minutes (again, comments from 60 owners with real experience would be good). In the 80, I think the charge time with a similar scenario would be about 30-40 minutes (queue in the 80 owners).
@Nautical Bubba +1 @tes-s Nice set up.
Yes for me cause Virginia only has one SuperCharger :(
Get the 60 if you live near lots of superchargers. 85 for anywhere outside of California.
This coming from a very happy MS60 owner.
But I live within 120 miles of 6 open or planned Superchargers.
Also . . . Swap coming?
I debated on all of the configurations. For me the decision was easy.
We don't have any SC yet in our area. We won't have any until late 2014 / 2015, and even when we do, they will be rather far spaced (unlike CA / NE corridor).
The automatic upgrade to SC capability and better tires, plus the unlimited mileage warranty on the battery was worth at least 4K. So really, you're looking at 6K for 57 extra miles. Add to that better acceleration, that is icing on the cake. To me, that is worth every cent. Now, to upgrade 10K for an extra second off of my already fast 0-60, or 16.5K for extra accelaration and cornering, or 22.5K for those things plus 21" wheels which will eat tires... well, that's just not worth it to me (not to diss those with p85+ machines... if money was no object I'd be right there with you, that is a sweet ride).
Bottom line, an S85 was my sweet spot. No regrets. I don't like sunroofs, so I went with body color roof. I do like tech stuff and audio packages, so I went with them (not sure if the audio pack is worth it or not, but oh well). Parking sensors are a must. I got fog lights (not sure if worth it or not). I wanted interior lighting, but I felt it was far too expensive for what it is. I regret not getting cold weather package (kids would have liked the seat warmers, and we are driving the car a lot more as a group than I thought we would... it's just so much more fun and economical to use than our Pilot)
its only $ anyway
I've had my 60 since March, and have over 22,000 miles on it. I've taken several long trips, which involved charging at RV parks as I live in Ohio, nowhere near Superchargers. I typically drive over 100 miles per day, and charge at 70-80%. The only reason I can get by comfortably with a 60 is that I have charging at work. I will drive to work, and plug in so that I always have 160 miles when I start out.
Today's temperature is -6. I really wish I had an 85 now. The extra cushion would be greatly appreciated. In addition, if you are going to keep your car for any length of time, the natural loss in range will be less noticeable. If you intend to trade or sell, the larger battery will certainly be a selling point.
Love my S60, but I have SC'ers to greet me each morning.
My watts per mile is lower because I'm 230 lbs lighter.
Add the Chademo adapter and I will never look back.
My $8000 can grow for my next more capable battery pack.
Thought someone should speak up for the happy S60 owners.
Yes in few years if you lose a % of the battery capacity you still have an excellent range.
I'm also a happy 60 owner. I live in SoCal so weather isn't an issue. I drive on average 75 miles a day and the extra capacity of the 85 would only make a difference for me once this year. That one trip wasn't worth $8,000 to me. I did go with Tesla financing for residual value guarantee in case the 60 doesn't hold its value as well as the 85.
In my opinion the 85kW should really be the smallest pack available. You just can't have enough range.
I got it for the unlimited mileage battery warranty myself. Since I put 20,000 miles per year on a car the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty is a 5 year warranty.
I get very close to ideal range with my driving style. The difference between a 60 and 85 is 70 miles of range for my driving style. That is significant - it's like having one Nissan Leaf in the trunk or two Chevy Volts!
@AR - I suspect there aren't a lot of P/P+ owners with your efficient driving style.
Then again, not many drivers in general can achieve the art of Zen driving either.
I'm in the other camp where I choose to bolt every chance I get in the S60. No needs to go to Great Adventures any more. I have plenty of range for my daily commute and weekend usage.
Perhaps in my old age I would return to hypermiling techniques. Until then, I'm bolting away!!!
Yes. It is only money!
The transition should be interesting. The hypermiling bolter!
Love my 60 but really wish I'd waited and saved the extra for the 85, especially in the cold & snow. If I lived in California, I'd probably feel differently.
No. Anyone wanna buy my 60 so I can buy an 85 lmao.
I own a 60 and I'm very happy with it. It's more efficient. It covers 98% of my needs (I had decided prior to buying the car that I would not use it for long winter trips as heating is simply a battery killer). For sure, i'd like the range of the 85 but it would not change my usage at all.
As to performance, nobody seems to touch on it but whatever Tesla says (for marketing purpose). I've done many races on tracks with S85 and P85 and I can tell you that the 0-60, in real life, is a rounding error. Certainly not 0.5 sec for the 0-60. Over five 1/8th miles races, I was only 0.2 sec slower in average than the S85 and 0.9 sec vs P85. Terminating speed being around 130km/h (81 mph), that means the 0-60 gap would be even lower.
I got a P85 and don't regret it at all even though I have only done one road trip. On that trip I really appreciated the extra range, and I know I will make a few more trips in the future. If they had a 110 kWh battery for an extra $10K, I would have gone with that.
You have to consider other small factors. Cold weather eats up battery miles quite fast. Do you want to plug in each day to top off, or are you a once a week guy? Do you get the garage spot or is your wife in the way of the cords reach? If your condo or vacation charging parking spot is taken, will you be upset or just say ill charge tomorrow? Do you have a HPWC or the regular 110v?
The resale value will improve if you get the higher battery up front. It's the same question BMW owners always contemplate about the 1.8L engine or stretch for the fun model.
Yes, It got me within range of all my family, my in-laws and weekend destinations.
It will make my car have a longer useful life for my purposes too.
To go all electric with no backup ICE car, one has to buy a Tesla and has to get the 85kWh battery. It's the only way to drive the same car to get groceries and road-trip (for free, using superchargers) without range anxiety.
The rest of Tesla buyers who don't care about going electric, well, they can afford all the premium options anyway. So everybody should get the 85. QED.
Seriously, though, in practice having an extra 20kWh changes your (well, our) behavior on road trips.
I was in dilemma big time. I ordered 85 kWH then I added rear seats. Then I saw cost was close to 100k. I changed between 60 and 85 multiple times and my order finalized on 60 as I knew I have no need for extra range or super charger. I still have gas cars which I will use on long drive. However so many folks told me that they regret having 60. I called Tesla and upgrAded to 85 just for in case. If you can afford extra 10 k, it is better not to regret.
A 60 can get directly from Supercharger to Supercharger, but forget about any side trips the long way around. The 85 still cannot go everywhere, but we can see some sights and don't have to stick to the straight-line shortest path.
In my case, 85 for the range then P to ensure no regrets... Would have gone all the way for a +, but the roads are so dreadful in Belgium that I don't think it would be a pleasant or practical experience.
So far, no regrets with the 60 at 12K miles. Never had an instance where I've needed more range. Looking forward to road trips once the SC network is more complete.
@Mathew98 Maybe in your old age you'll let the wife drive the car.
@JT - I'm hoping at least one of the two would still be fully functional...
If my wife were to drive the S then I'll have to alert the police to clear all traffic and pedestrians in the vicinity.
"IS THE $8200 WORTH IT FOR AN EXTRA 57 MILE INCREASE IN RANGE AT 70MPH?"
Only you can answer that based on your driving habits. I assume that you don't attribute much value to the increased acceleration of the 85 over the 60, otherwise you would have phrased your question differently, so it is only the value of increased range that your are questioning.
If you live in a warm sunny climate then plan on getting close to rated range and then determine if you need the bigger battery. However, here in the Northeast with temps on the low single digits yesterday and high single digits so far today, I have been averaging 500wh/mile over the past 75 miles - giving me about 60% of rated range. Over the past 900 miles I have averaged 418 wh/mile. Besides being cold, it has been rainy and snowy. Any one or a combination of these 3 conditions will have a negative effect on range. Long distance driving in cold rain with snow tires put me at about 75% of rated range. Short distance snow driving put me over 600 wh/mile, but I don't have any numbers for driving on a snow covered highway at 35mph.
As bad as these numbers sound, I could get by with a 60 for MY daily driving needs. However, I like the acceleration of an 85 and the added insurance of the bigger battery.
I have a short commute and keeping my old car. I decided to put the $8200 towards features and got the 60kw with every feature except paint armor and supercharging.